Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (9 Viewers)

[CCFCSteve]

I agree, nuke the cunts.

Maybe a little OTT

 

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[David O'Day]

Or swine flu?

Or Bon Jovi

 

[duffer]

I don't think the first issue is going to be breaking the NHS. The 10 day isolation for people "if" their symptoms are very mild or even not there is going to break a lot of things first surely? That has to be the first worry.

Then you have things like people who can't afford to not miss work still (same as before). You have people who don't want to miss their Christmas piss up or seeing their families so if they have a sniffle they aren't going to do a test.

IF it turns out that for the vast majority it is just a cold for a day then let it rip.

The problem is that if you let it rip now, and then in a few weeks time it turns out that for even a small proportion of those infected it's serious, then that small proportion will be a very large number.

By then of course, it's too late to do anything.

Here's the key point again, as made by EU scientific advisors, as opposed to UK ones (who seem to have lost your trust somewhat):

Data are currently too limited to assess the severity of disease caused by the Omicron VOC in the EU/EEA population with sufficient confidence. However, even if the severity of disease caused by the Omicron VOC is equal to or lower than the severity of the Delta VOC, the increased transmissibility and resulting exponential growth of cases will rapidly outweigh any benefits of a potentially reduced severity.

This is the key point, and it's not just Boris saying it. Link to today's full update is below:

Assessment of the further emergence of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron VOC in the context of the ongoing Delta VOC transmission in the EU/EEA, 18th update

The risk to public health posed by the spread of the Omicron VOC in the context of ongoing Delta VOC transmission in the EU/EEA is assessed in this update.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

 

[Nick]

That's why I said if it turns out to be just a mild thing for the majority.

 

[duffer]

I agree with pretty much all your posts recently Duffer but I still think there’s too many unknowns to suggest that without restrictions/slowing the spread it will break the nhs. The forecasts at the moment aren’t really worth the paper their written on as we really don’t have much of a clue about omicron other than it’s more transmissible. In the summer forecasters were saying post ‘freedom day’ there would be 100k cases per day and 2-3 times more hospitalisations than actually happened

Younger people may not have had boosters but a majority will hopefully have decent immunity from two jabs (as many would’ve had Pfizer and also jabbed more recently) and also natural immunity...obviously assuming omicron doesn’t swerve both. Then there are suggestions that omicron might be milder and younger people are at far reduced risk, even if totally unvaccinated.

I agree with the precautionary measures but talk about NHS being overwhelmed feels premature. I’m not saying it won’t happen or isn’t at risk of it happening (as I say too many unknowns) but this time last year we had 13k with Covid in hospital in England and currently it’s around 6.5k. Also last year there was far less natural immunity and literally no vaccine immunity to protect from severe illness/ hospitalisation.

All perfectly reasonable Steve, but the problem is that the NHS is already at breaking point, and possibly beyond it.

Data on this is much harder to find, but I know personally of two seperate incidents where people with breathing difficulties have either waited for an ambulance for over six hours, or been in an ambulance outside the hospital for over ten hours. Another case was a lady who collapsed and suffered two broken hips, waited ten hours for an ambulance, and then was misdiagnosed in any case. This was within the last two weeks. I hate anecdotal evidence, but it feels telling, and worrying.

It doesn't feel like it can take much more.

 

[Nick]

All perfectly reasonable Steve, but the problem is that the NHS is already at breaking point, and possibly beyond it.

Data on this is much harder to find, but I know personally of two seperate incidents where people with breathing difficulties have either waited for an ambulance for over six hours, or been in an ambulance outside the hospital for over ten hours. Another case was a lady who collapsed and suffered two broken hips, waited ten hours for an ambulance, and then was misdiagnosed in any case. This was within the last two weeks. I hate anecdotal evidence, but it feels telling, and worrying.

It doesn't feel like it can take much more.

Probably doesn't help that GP surgeries are too busy to speak to people so they go to hospital or call and ambulance.

Well I say too busy, for things other than boosters it seems as they are beggy as fuck.

 

[duffer]

That's why I said if it turns out to be just a mild thing for the majority.

You won't know that until it's infected a very large number of people, as above.

What would you do now? Take a punt on it being a cold?

 

[Kieranp96]

All perfectly reasonable Steve, but the problem is that the NHS is already at breaking point, and possibly beyond it.

Data on this is much harder to find, but I know personally of two seperate incidents where people with breathing difficulties have either waited for an ambulance for over six hours, or been in an ambulance outside the hospital for over ten hours. Another case was a lady who collapsed and suffered two broken hips, waited ten hours for an ambulance, and then was misdiagnosed in any case. This was within the last two weeks. I hate anecdotal evidence, but it feels telling, and worrying.

It doesn't feel like it can take much more.

Its nowhere near breaking point, something like 20% of beds are taken, and 7% of them are just people who wont be sent away because they're jomeless and need social care thats no available.

 

[duffer]

Probably doesn't help that GP surgeries are too busy to speak to people so they go to hospital or call and ambulance.

Well I say too busy, for things other than boosters it seems.

That's not entirely true either, but I agree the booster drive will have an impact.

Fwiw I got to see a GP today, again let's not misinform and put people off even trying.

 

[Nick]

That's not entirely true either, but I agree the booster drive will have an impact.

Fwiw I got to see a GP today, again let's not misinform and put people off even trying.

Again, I can only go off personal experience.

If I want to have a 2-3 minute call with a gp I need to hold 40 minutes at 8am. I'm getting daily texts with a simple link to make an appointment now. It's just fact.

This sort of thing causes people to go to hospital or ring ambulances too. Those people need to be filtered out way before they get to the point of hospital.

Let the GPs filter people out, let vaccine centres do them.

Guess there's not as much money in those people though for the GP.

 

[Evo1883]

GP's

 

[chiefdave]

Its nowhere near breaking point, something like 20% of beds are taken, and 7% of them are just people who wont be sent away because they're jomeless and need social care thats no available.

Where have you got those numbers from? Found something from a Kings Fund report which paints a very different picture.

Before the Covid-19 pandemic there was widespread evidence of a growing shortage of beds. In 2019/20, overnight general and acute bed occupancy averaged 90.2 per cent, and regularly exceeded 95 per cent in winter, well above the level many consider safe.

 

[duffer]

Its nowhere near breaking point, something like 20% of beds are taken, and 7% of them are just people who wont be sent away because they're jomeless and need social care thats no available.

Then why are ambulances queuing for hours outside hospitals to admit people?

Ambulances queue outside A&Es as 999 calls pile up

Ambulance services in England are struggling to cope with huge numbers of calls, as crowded hospitals are unable to take patients and queues of ambulances waiting outside emergency departments have become an everyday occurrence. The Association of Ambulance Chief Executives has said that every...

www.bmj.com

Thousands of patients at risk of harm while ambulances queue outside hospitals

Ambulance trust leaders have expressed concern over handover delays following analysis of the latest data.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Evo1883]

Then why are ambulances queuing for hours outside hospitals to admit people?

Ambulances queue outside A&Es as 999 calls pile up

Ambulance services in England are struggling to cope with huge numbers of calls, as crowded hospitals are unable to take patients and queues of ambulances waiting outside emergency departments have become an everyday occurrence. The Association of Ambulance Chief Executives has said that every...

www.bmj.com

Thousands of patients at risk of harm while ambulances queue outside hospitals

Ambulance trust leaders have expressed concern over handover delays following analysis of the latest data.

www.standard.co.uk

To be fair , my partners nephew was ran over last week and was in a serious condition .

He was in the road for 90 minutes before an ambulance came and took him to hospital .. when they got to the hospital there were 4 ambulances parked up

He tore his liver and spleen , fractured his leg , broke his ribs , and needed 20 stitches in his leg

 

[David O'Day]

Its nowhere near breaking point, something like 20% of beds are taken, and 7% of them are just people who wont be sent away because they're jomeless and need social care thats no available.

Can you link us to that data as everything we can find says that is bollocks

 

[Nick]

Isn't beds and a and e slightly different?

No idea on the numbers of free beds though.

Again, filter out the nonsense of a and e.

 

[David O'Day]

Isn't beds and a and e slightly different?

No idea on the numbers of free beds though.

No because teh biggest issue for A+E is being able to admit people to wards dues to lack of beds which in turn creates queues of ambos trying to admit people to a+e

 

[Nick]

No because teh biggest issue for A+E is being able to admit people to wards dues to lack of beds which in turn creates queues of ambos trying to admit people to a+e

That's assuming they all get admitted to wards. Again. Filter out the nonsense.

I haven't been in an a and e during covid, granted.

 

[duffer]

To be fair , my partners nephew was ran over last week and was in a serious condition .

He was in the road for 90 minutes before an ambulance came and took him to hospital .. when they got to the hospital there were 4 ambulances parked up

He tore his liver and spleen , fractured his leg , broke his ribs , and needed 20 stitches in his leg

Yes, it's hard to get data on this in a straightforward way, but it's easy enough to find lots of similar stories.

It's definitely worrying, and I don't for a moment believe that the NHS isn't already under huge pressure.

 

[duffer]

That's assuming they all get admitted to wards. Again. Filter out the nonsense.

I haven't been in an a and e during covid, granted.

C'mon Nick, you're starting to argue black is white here. What do you think happens to most people who go to hospital in an ambulance? They have a quick wipe down and are sent on their way?!

Filter out the nonsense indeed!

 

[Nick]

C'mon Nick, you're starting to argue black is white here. What do you think happens to most people who go to hospital in an ambulance? They have a quick wipe down and are sent on their way?!

Filter out the nonsense indeed!

People don't just go to a and e in ambulances though do they?

 

[covmark]

Chris Whitty: "This is a really serious threat. How much of a threat? Several things we don't know, but the things we do know are bad."

Lockdown incoming

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

 

[shmmeee]

In uninfected people the tests correctly ruled out infection in 99.5% of people with covid-19-like symptoms and in 98.9% of those without.

Covid-19: Lateral flow tests are better at identifying people with symptoms, finds Cochrane review

Rapid antigen (lateral flow) tests are better at identifying covid-19 infection in people with symptoms than in those with none, although the diagnostic accuracy of different brands of tests varies widely, a Cochrane review has found.1 The review’s lead author criticised the UK government for...

www.bmj.com

That’s the false negative rate. You had a false positive.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Again, I can only go off personal experience.

If I want to have a 2-3 minute call with a gp I need to hold 40 minutes at 8am. I'm getting daily texts with a simple link to make an appointment now. It's just fact.

This sort of thing causes people to go to hospital or ring ambulances too. Those people need to be filtered out way before they get to the point of hospital.

Let the GPs filter people out, let vaccine centres do them.

Guess there's not as much money in those people though for the GP.

Who do you keep going on about money, you haven't got a clue how the GP contracts work

 

[duffer]

People don't just go to a and e in ambulances though do they?

The ones queuing outside A & E aren't likely to be there for routine appointments are they?

Hmm...I think I'll book my serious fall, stroke, heart attack, car accident for Tuesday... I haven't much on that day.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Can you link us to that data as everything we can find says that is bollocks

It is bollocks which is par for the course with that clown

 

[shmmeee]

It shouldnt sit well with anybody .. but here we are

Donyou think we should remove the other vaccination requirements then? What about all those people that never got the job because they aren’t vaccinated against other things?

That’s what i dont get. It’s not a new rule, just a new vaccine. Do you not agree with any of the vaccine rules? Do you think Covid should be a special case? That people should be grandfathered in? What actually is your position?

 

[Sick Boy]

Chris Whitty: "This is a really serious threat. How much of a threat? Several things we don't know, but the things we do know are bad."

Lockdown incoming

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

Haven’t SAGE already called for one?

 

[shmmeee]

Also question for the “media are making it scary” crowd: why are social media users who genuinely only have the motivation of clicks and views exempt from this scepticism?

Salaried journalist/scientist: making shot up to scare people

Rando on Twitter with no sources: valid source

Make it make sense.

 

[CCFCSteve]

All perfectly reasonable Steve, but the problem is that the NHS is already at breaking point, and possibly beyond it.

Data on this is much harder to find, but I know personally of two seperate incidents where people with breathing difficulties have either waited for an ambulance for over six hours, or been in an ambulance outside the hospital for over ten hours. Another case was a lady who collapsed and suffered two broken hips, waited ten hours for an ambulance, and then was misdiagnosed in any case. This was within the last two weeks. I hate anecdotal evidence, but it feels telling, and worrying.

It doesn't feel like it can take much more.

Thats a fair point. I was commenting purely on covid inpatients in England currently at around 6.5k and questioning whether/why hospitalisations should increase exponentially unless omicron swerves natural and vaccine immunity (something we still don’t know…if it does we really are in the shit)

 

[Evo1883]

Donyou think we should remove the other vaccination requirements then? What about all those people that never got the job because they aren’t vaccinated against other things?

That’s what i dont get. It’s not a new rule, just a new vaccine. Do you not agree with any of the vaccine rules? Do you think Covid should be a special case? That people should be grandfathered in? What actually is your position?

I've told you many times my position , yet you keep asking for it , which is baffling

Not just my opinion either is it ? Nobody should lose their job because of vaccination status.. full stop.. end of discussion ..no more to say

I don't care what people had before they signed up for a job , this is something after , a different time a different situation being forced onto them

You might enjoy the idea of this happening to these people , but not me , never me

 

[shmmeee]

Thats a fair point. I was commenting purely on covid inpatients in England currently at around 6.5k and questioning whether/why hospitalisations should increase exponentially unless omicron swerves natural and vaccine immunity (something we still don’t know…if it does we really are in the shit)

May have misunderstood your point but hospitalisations lags cases and only the booster severely reduces hospitalisations IIRC so if you’ve got record case numbers now and low booster percentages then record hospitalisations is baked in over the next couple of weeks.

 

[shmmeee]

I've told you many times my position , yet you keep asking for it , which is baffling

You’ve said you don’t agree with forced vaccinations. So I assume you’re against the existing requirements for healthcare workers. So why are you only just up in arms about it now?

That’s what I don’t understand. Why weren’t you out screaming about the loss of freedom and slide to authoritarianism ten years ago? What makes the Covid vaccine special?

People are acting like this is the first time healthcare workers have required vaccination and that’s just not true.

 

[Tommo1993]

I've told you many times my position , yet you keep asking for it , which is baffling

Not just my opinion either is it ? Nobody should lose their job because of vaccination status.. full stop.. end of discussion ..no more to say

Sister is an oncology nurse and been told to get boosted before January or get sacked.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Chris Whitty: "This is a really serious threat. How much of a threat? Several things we don't know, but the things we do know are bad."

Lockdown incoming

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

Of course a lockdown is coming. Sorry to say.