Bin Strikes (5 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Fucking hell!!

Wages in the 70’s in some industries increased by 20% and those who received it ended up far far poorer

 

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[JAM See]

So what happens when inflation gets back under control do wages go down?

That would require deflation.

Economics 101.

Stay behind Grendel, you need some extra tuition in...everything.

 

[Grendel]

That would require deflation.

Economics 101.

Stay behind Grendel, you need some extra tuition in...everything.

the point as ever is missed and one things for certain I don’t need to create multiple accounts to appear to have a coherent argument

 

[clint van damme]

Wages in the 70’s in some industries increased by 20% and those who received it ended up far far poorer

How much have executive wages increased since the 70s?

 

[JAM See]

the point as ever is missed and one things for certain I don’t need to create multiple accounts to appear to have a coherent argument

Yawn.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I was actually asking a legitimate question? What are the reasons wages would need to rise.

Sorry this cannot be a serious question

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'm really uneasy about this whole 'ballot/unlawful' narrative.

I'm not erudite enough to express my views eloquently, but...

...It should be the right of any working person to withdraw their labour as they see fit.

When did withdrawing your labour become a crime?

Well there's a thing you've signed called a contract for a start.

 

[Grendel]

How much have executive wages increased since the 70s?

Who knows and it’s not relevant

 

[Grendel]

Sorry this cannot be a serious question

well as I say the last time wages kept up with inflation on a large scale what happened?

 

[Grendel]

Well there's a thing you've signed called a contract for a start.

Minor Detail

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

well as I say the last time wages kept up with inflation on a large scale what happened?

Do you agree with having a minimum wage?

 

[JAM See]

Well there's a thing you've signed called a contract for a start.

And your contract states you have to fulfill it. If you don't, then you should lose your agreed compensation.

However, it should not be unlawful to withdraw your labour.

Thanks Margaret!

 

[Grendel]

Do you agree with having a minimum wage?

Not relevant

The problem is inflation starts with things that directly impact business prices. Utilities, raw materials etc. So margins are squeezed for businesses as well as individuals.

Wage increases will squeeze margins more. So prices rise. Consumers can’t then spend without even higher wages

Interest rates rise - mortgage payments rise - repossession rates increase - house prices crash

Labour in their real guise have never been in power again as there attempts at wage constraint against huge inflation rises was not successful and they’ve never recovered as a political party from that one moment when the car industry forced wages to match inflation.

 

[Grendel]

Oh and of course unless this government can control wages it’s finished as the fall out will be catastrophic- inflation is a bit worse than a secret Santa

 

[JAM See]

Not relevant

The problem is inflation starts with things that directly impact business prices. Utilities, raw materials etc. So margins are squeezed for businesses as well as individuals.

Wage increases will squeeze margins more. So prices rise. Consumers can’t then spend without even higher wages

Interest rates rise - mortgage payments rise - repossession rates increase - house prices crash

Labour in their real guise have never been in power again as there attempts at wage constraint against huge inflation rises was not successful and they’ve never recovered as a political party from that one moment when the car industry forced wages to match inflation.

Jesus wept! You really are clueless.

Capitalism requires inflation (the clue's in the name).

Inflation requires wage rises.

What bit don't you understand?

 

[Grendel]

Jesus wept! You really are clueless.

Capitalism requires inflation (the clue's in the name).

Inflation requires wage rises.

What bit don't you understand?

So we’d be better with 20% inflation? Why don’t you go back to Ireland this is a bit much for you.

Embarrasing

 

[JAM See]

So we’d be better with 20% inflation? Why don’t you go back to Ireland this is a bit much for you.

Embarrasing

Yawn.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And your contract states you have to fulfill it. If you don't, then you should lose your agreed compensation.

However, it should not be unlawful to withdraw your labour.

Thanks Margaret!

I think you might be confusing the rights of an individual worker with the collective rights of trade unions

 

[Grendel]

I think you might be confusing the rights of an individual worker with the collective rights of trade unions

It’s ironic he’s quoting thatcher as she was born from the inability to control wage inflation

 

[JAM See]

I think you might be confusing the rights of an individual worker with the collective rights of trade unions

What's the difference in your opinion? Genuine question.

I'm bored with @Grendel and would appreciate some genuine debate with an intelligent person.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not relevant

The problem is inflation starts with things that directly impact business prices. Utilities, raw materials etc. So margins are squeezed for businesses as well as individuals.

Wage increases will squeeze margins more. So prices rise. Consumers can’t then spend without even higher wages

Interest rates rise - mortgage payments rise - repossession rates increase - house prices crash

Labour in their real guise have never been in power again as there attempts at wage constraint against huge inflation rises was not successful and they’ve never recovered as a political party from that one moment when the car industry forced wages to match inflation.

Yes relevant

The argument on wage increases in general keeps falling flat in the face of real world evidence where it has not caused widespread business failure. Wages lagging behind inflation for too long results in increased reliance on the state for help as work offers less financial security. House prices have surged the most making your interest rate point an irrelevance if people struggle to afford the deposit in the first place.

The overriding principle is that if you work full time you should be financially secure

 

[Grendel]

What's the difference in your opinion? Genuine question.

I'm bored with @Grendel and would appreciate some genuine debate with an intelligent person.

try ring of steel he’s very similar in intellect to you almost a mirror image

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What's the difference in your opinion? Genuine question.

I'm bored with @Grendel and would appreciate some genuine debate with an intelligent person.

When you sign up to a recognised union you are agreeing for them to negotiate and bargain on the behalf of you, the other members and anyone else covered by the recognition agreement. You don't have the right to individually withdraw from these agreements unless you leave the union or go to a workplace without such an agreement.

When it comes to strike action, this obviously pulls out all of the union members potentially whether they agree or not. Previously just a majority vote was required, but the law changed in the early 2010s to require a majority of all eligible members with the reasoning that a small turnout could force many more members to strike. If a non-union member simply wants to withdraw his or her labour they can do that at any time and it's quite legal, though they might not expect to stay in employment very long!

 

[Grendel]

Yes relevant

The argument on wage increases in general keeps falling flat in the face of real world evidence where it has not caused widespread business failure. Wages lagging behind inflation for too long results in increased reliance on the state for help as work offers less financial security. House prices have surged the most making your interest rate point an irrelevance if people struggle to afford the deposit in the first place.

The overriding principle is that if you work full time you should be financially secure

Why did the Labour Party implode in the 70’s?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why did the Labour Party implode in the 70’s?

It isn't 1975 anymore mate. After over a decade where inflation has exceeded wage growth, do you not see any problem? Why should people's real term earnings fall over time?

 

[Grendel]

Yes relevant

The argument on wage increases in general keeps falling flat in the face of real world evidence where it has not caused widespread business failure. Wages lagging behind inflation for too long results in increased reliance on the state for help as work offers less financial security. House prices have surged the most making your interest rate point an irrelevance if people struggle to afford the deposit in the first place.

The overriding principle is that if you work full time you should be financially secure

Also I’m not sure why you are bothered. Johnson has zero conservative values and will just eventually go with the flow and wages will climb as he sees that as the populist route

The fall out will be unpleasant but it will be the end of this government

 

[Grendel]

It isn't 1975 anymore mate. After over a decade where inflation has exceeded wage growth, do you not see any problem? Why should people's real term earnings fall over time?

Everything is relative even a tiny interest rate rise is viewed as earth shattering in the media - what if it gets to 3 or 4% as BOE policy?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Also I’m not sure why you are bothered. Johnson has zero conservative values and will just eventually go with the flow and wages will climb as he sees that as the populist route

The fall out will be unpleasant but it will be the end of this government

Well I'm bothered because I think on principle a full time job should provide enough security for people not to need state assistance. Personally I'd like to see a VAT cut come first

 

[JAM See]

When you sign up to a recognised union you are agreeing for them to negotiate and bargain on the behalf of you, the other members and anyone else covered by the recognition agreement. You don't have the right to individually withdraw from these agreements unless you leave the union or go to a workplace without such an agreement.

When it comes to strike action, this obviously pulls out all of the union members potentially whether they agree or not. Previously just a majority vote was required, but the law changed in the early 2010s to require a majority of all eligible members with the reasoning that a small turnout could force many more members to strike. If a non-union member simply wants to withdraw his or her labour they can do that at any time and it's quite legal, though they might not expect to stay in employment very long!

I've never been on strike, but all through my working life I've always been a member of a union.

I've always felt that they'd had the best interests of the 'little people' at heart.

Interesting point about a small turnout. What do you think about compulsory voting? I'm a fan.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Everything is relative even a tiny interest rate rise is viewed as earth shattering in the media - what if it gets to 3 or 4% as BOE policy?

We're discussing a sustained period of people's wages shrinking in value, so if they are not to rise what is the solution?

 

[Grendel]

Well I'm bothered because I think on principle a full time job should provide enough security for people not to need state assistance. Personally I'd like to see a VAT cut come first

Lowering taxation and encouraging spending is a good strategy - not happening though i suspect

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I've never been on strike, but all through my working life I've always been a member of a union.

I've always felt that they'd had the best interests of the 'little people' at heart.

Interesting point about a small turnout. What do you think about compulsory voting? I'm a fan.

It's important to be part of one for your own sake anyway but I think for balloting a strike where income will be lost I don't mind a minimum turnout %. I'm not necessarily sure though that just not voting should count as 'no'

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Lowering taxation and encouraging spending is a good strategy - not happening though i suspect

People can't spend more if their money has less purchasing power. Would like VAT to go down at least to 17.5 if not lower

 

[Grendel]

People can't spend more if their money has less purchasing power. Would like VAT to go down at least to 17.5 if not lower

Well they can if tax is lowered

 

[JAM See]

It's important to be part of one for your own sake anyway but I think for balloting a strike where income will be lost I don't mind a minimum turnout %. I'm not necessarily sure though that just not voting should count as 'no'

I was thinking more of compulsory voting per se. As in general elections. As I said previously, I'm a fan of it.

P.S.

Don't bother rising to @Grendel and his bollocks. I'm only interested in informed opinions.

(watch @Grendel bite)