fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
He was the man who took us down. It's the same as when we lost to Wolves at home 2nd game in 2001, the knives were out for Strachan and rightly so.
Thorn is not the man. (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ccfcisparks
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He was the man who took us down. It's the same as when we lost to Wolves at home 2nd game in 2001, the knives were out for Strachan and rightly so.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
He didn't say "I don't believe in scouting the oppposition": it was more that what we do is more important, and he wanted to talk about us, but not that we simply were going to ignore opposition tactics!
You've taken what he said entirely out of context and built it into the central plank of your argument-and you didn't even hear it yourself..
1nilandwe...
Well-Known Member
Is somebody going to ban this troll?
Sisu_Cockroaches
New Member
I'm serious we expect players to loose weight but managers should too
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
There were numerous times last season when it appeared we hadn't done enough homework on the opposition. The home game against Blackpool sticks in my mind the most.
1nilandwe...
Well-Known Member
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
That's a different thing to "He says he never scouts the opposition, FFS!"
Black6Osprey
New Member
My first post so go easy on me.
I've been a ST holder since 1992 so I consider myself as long suffering as I need to be. Does this make me an expert in all things football? Not in the slightest, but it does mean that I've seen enough football to know when things are working well and things are not. I'm not in the Thorn out or in camp, I'm in the Coventry City achieving what the team is capable of camp.
Thorn has been in charge now for a reasonable amount of time and although he hasn't had his own team (until now) I'm sure most would admit and Thorn certainly did, that the team we had last year, on paper at least were good enough, if playing well, to survive in the Championship. We did not survive and to be honest weren't even close in the end.
Good managers need tactical awareness, the ability to change formations, stop the opposition in what they are good at and make your team impose what they are good at. The key factor in all of this is the ability to organise, communicate and motivate. If you look at all good managers they have the ability to communicate, command respect and in most cases you wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of them. Thorn doesn't portray any of these qualities when you here him speak and the fact he couldn't motivate a team that on paper last year were good enough to survive gives me grave concerns that he will be able to motivate this new group who on paper look a top six side.
The knives are out a bit early for me this season but even the most ardent fan of Thorn must be wondering if he will ever come good.
I've been a ST holder since 1992 so I consider myself as long suffering as I need to be. Does this make me an expert in all things football? Not in the slightest, but it does mean that I've seen enough football to know when things are working well and things are not. I'm not in the Thorn out or in camp, I'm in the Coventry City achieving what the team is capable of camp.
Thorn has been in charge now for a reasonable amount of time and although he hasn't had his own team (until now) I'm sure most would admit and Thorn certainly did, that the team we had last year, on paper at least were good enough, if playing well, to survive in the Championship. We did not survive and to be honest weren't even close in the end.
Good managers need tactical awareness, the ability to change formations, stop the opposition in what they are good at and make your team impose what they are good at. The key factor in all of this is the ability to organise, communicate and motivate. If you look at all good managers they have the ability to communicate, command respect and in most cases you wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of them. Thorn doesn't portray any of these qualities when you here him speak and the fact he couldn't motivate a team that on paper last year were good enough to survive gives me grave concerns that he will be able to motivate this new group who on paper look a top six side.
The knives are out a bit early for me this season but even the most ardent fan of Thorn must be wondering if he will ever come good.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
I can't believe some of the idiots and morons we have as so called sky blue fans !!!!
Makes a lot of sense to allow a manager to assemble a team and then sack him after the first competitive match that wasn't even a defeat !!!
Im sure all of you who want him sacked are all legends in your own minds !!!
Sorry to be insulting but tough shit !!!
Makes a lot of sense to allow a manager to assemble a team and then sack him after the first competitive match that wasn't even a defeat !!!
Im sure all of you who want him sacked are all legends in your own minds !!!
Sorry to be insulting but tough shit !!!
scroobiustom
New Member
Welcome to SBT :welcome: I quite like this post, but I have to question one thing, if not Thorn then who?
I like the idea of Lee Carsley in the long term, but as was once famously said "lets give peace (Thorn) a chance"
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Fair enough but imo the squad last season was not good enough to stay in the championship unless we had an exceptional experienced manager which could have improved our chances of survival but still no guarantees it could have saved us
For me now Thorn is now on a trial period, if he isn't getting it right after 10-15 games a change may be needed
cov1987
Member
QUICKER_THAN_WRIGHTY
New Member
What are you talking about I suppose big Sam, Steve Bruce Gus hiddink should lose weight then. Oh dear go away you tard
cov1987
Member
kg82
Well-Known Member
I see what you're saying, but I can't agree. I'm also neither Thorn in or Thorn out, but like you've pointed out, last season's team wasn't his. You also point out the players we had, on paper, were good enough to keep us up. I'd agree with this to the extent that the first XI were, on paper, good enough to keep us up if they played to their full potential. Unfortunately some got injured, some didn't play as well as they could. He's finally been able to bring his own players in. I'm willing to give Thorn and the team 10 games to prove to me they can do it. That gives them a bit of time to gel and figure out this league. It would be totally illogical to get rid of Thorn after the first game of the season, which we didn't lose.
RichieGunns
New Member
Mate...that is not on. As ive said on previous threads, excess weight does not neccesserily mean unwell. I know plenty of people who look 'fat' when it is actually muscle.
Im one of those people too. I look fat (and i am over weight) but i swim several miles a week in the pool and can swim better than a lot of skinny or 'normal looking' people who youd consider 'well' individuals.
So leave thorns weight out of it. And stop trying to justify your horrid comments with excuses like "but he'll have a heart attack when the pressure gets to him" etc becauee they only show you to be a disgusting individual.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
No you're right - some seem to put the interests of a hopelessly limited manager before the football club they support.
kg82
Well-Known Member
I'm still trying to figure out what "he needs to loose some weight or he'll be I'll again" means?!
Black6Osprey
New Member
Too many games last season where we took the lead and lost. We couldn't close out games. No width with the rigid diamond allowing the opposition more space for them to attack our full backs. There are plenty of ex-players and managers of Cov who have commented they don't like the diamond and the limitations defensively it gives us. The amount of wins that turn into draws and draws that turn in to defeats suggests a more experienced man would have saved us.
Thats all in the past now so we can only look forward to the new season and I hope this new team can gel together. I was at Yeovil and it wasn't great but going forward looks more positive than last year and I expect Cody, Barton and Fleck to all do well. Defensively we still look very weak and the diamond didn't help us on Saturday as they always had a man over on the wings. Better teams than Yeovil we punish us if we persist with this narrow midfield. Can anyone name a top flight team or manager that regularly plays the diamond thinking its some how superior to 442 or 4231 or 352?
RichieGunns
New Member
No ones putting his interest above the club. People are trying to be realistic. How much turmoil will it create in the team and not to mention the club as a whole if we simply sacked thorn on the first day.
The players would become disheartened and our performances would suffer. Do you want that for the club? It's too early to be rocking the boat like that!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
He said you can spend too much time thinking about what other teams are going to be doing - I think there are quite a few examples actually that suggest he does not spend much time looking at opposition tactics.
RichieGunns
New Member
Your still assuming Grendal. Until he's quoted as saying "I don't scout other teams" you can't say he doesn't. It's an assumption and nothing more...
worked for norwich
RichieGunns
New Member
Doesn't mean it'll work for us does it as we're not Norwich. Every club reacts differently when the manager is sacked. Our club is in a bad place as it is. We don't want anymore shit to add to it do we?
RichieGunns
New Member
And when I say bad place, I mean financially with the threat of administration still a possibility!
stupot07
Well-Known Member
We are not Norwich, we are a poorly run and poorly supported club, with no financial clout even in this league.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Although it was half way through the season didn't it work for Peterborough?
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Carlo Ancelotti won a league title and FA cup using it at Chelsea with Mikel, Ballack, Deco and Lampard as a midfield 4
The dropping leads was a big problem last year, I would put this down largely to inexperience and lack of mental strength. This improved later on in the season as the players became more experienced in seeing out games
I'm not saying the diamond is perfect but people who have seen us play in pre season say we played our best football in pre season with it, we experimented with different formation and lost 3 friendlies on the bounce
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Yeah worked for Peterborough that finished 1 place higher (4th) than they were before he took over and won the play offs. Not like try we're languishing in midtable when he took over.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
They lost 7-1 to their local rivals at home! You can't even begin to compare that to a steady away draw to Yeovil!
Also, Norwich could afford to sack their manager and replace him with a class manager, whereas we'd probably look at Shaw, Carsley, Oggy, when they do shit, we'll moan like we did with AT!
Black6Osprey
New Member
Yes indeed Chelsea did favour it at that time and with the quality of player they had the attacking benefits of the system were stronger than the defensive shortcomings. They had players who when they got a chance it would more often than not end up in a goal. We don't have that quality of player.
I'm not saying the system can't work but you need to be very good at keeping the ball and just as importantly very hard working to cover the ground. We have very young full backs and especially with Hussey, very hit and miss full backs. Playing the diamond will leaves these young players too exposed when playing against more experienced managers and teams. The fact that during preseason against in some cases lower level opposition it speaks volumes to me the Thorn couldn't get a group of professional footballers to look comfortable playing 442. A formation most will have been playing since they were 10 years old.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Thnak you for confirming that he did not say "we won't bother scouting the opposition"
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Niether did all the managers pre AT, post relegation to D1.
Also, we have sh!t wingers, why, oh why do people think we should play with wingers when they don't have the quality, or suggest we play the likes of Fleck/Barton on the wings, it simply would NOT work!
I'm on the fence with AT atm, I wanted him out after we got relegated but when we decided to stick with him, I decided I'll give him another chance. We as SUPPORTERS should applaud that he has recognised the FACT our winger are poo so therefore played without them, and for realising 4-4-2 is an old fashioned and a non-effective system as ID, CC, AB, MA kindly showed us.
Oh, our best manager since getting relegated was Eric Black... Did he play 4-4-2? No, he played 4-2-4, played the wider version of the diamond.
Black6Osprey
New Member
442 is a simple solid system and every pro player should be able to play it.
I agree that Black did well but the formation thing isn't entirely correct. He had a great start with 3 wins 2 draws in the first 6 games similar to Thorn really but he finished I think with 7 points from his last 7 games. His last game being the 5-2 win at Gillingham. His main problem was the fact he changed his team all the time. I remember we beat Walsall 6-1 with a 4-3-3 formation with McSheff, Morrel and Joachim up top and then the following week he changed it to 3 centre backs, wing backs and 2 up top and we drew 1-1 with Ipswich then a couple of games later at home against Norwich we lost 2-0 and he went 4-4-2 and dropped McSheff in place of Suffo (who remembers him?). The point is people remember Black as this all out attacking manager but forget how annoying he was when he changed his system and players every week, even after a good result.
On the whole I think we all want the team to do well and would love Thorn to win every game but at the moment the facts say something very different. We've got no cash so he's not going anywhere and will still be managing us at the turn of the year no matter what the results but I don't see how anyone can be happy with how we are currently playing and that is surely the only thing that matters to any of us.