Thorn is not the man. (20 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Excellent post black osprey. We haven't played 4 2 4 since the 1970's.

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

442 is a simple solid system and every pro player should be able to play it.

I agree that Black did well but the formation thing isn't entirely correct. He had a great start with 3 wins 2 draws in the first 6 games similar to Thorn really but he finished I think with 7 points from his last 7 games. His last game being the 5-2 win at Gillingham. His main problem was the fact he changed his team all the time. I remember we beat Walsall 6-1 with a 4-3-3 formation with McSheff, Morrel and Joachim up top and then the following week he changed it to 3 centre backs, wing backs and 2 up top and we drew 1-1 with Ipswich then a couple of games later at home against Norwich we lost 2-0 and he went 4-4-2 and dropped McSheff in place of Suffo (who remembers him?). The point is people remember Black as this all out attacking manager but forget how annoying he was when he changed his system and players every week, even after a good result.

On the whole I think we all want the team to do well and would love Thorn to win every game but at the moment the facts say something very different. We've got no cash so he's not going anywhere and will still be managing us at the turn of the year no matter what the results but I don't see how anyone can be happy with how we are currently playing and that is surely the only thing that matters to any of us.

Tbh, I did watch a few games under Black (note: I was 9 when he was manager and didn't get up that often because no one could take me, bar football manager or football team) and after looking back at programmes when he managed he played a lot of formations, 4-3-3, 4-2-4, diamond 4-4-2. The point largely being that he did not play 4-4-2.

Excellent post black osprey. We haven't played 4 2 4 since the 1970's.

I know for a FACT we played 4-2-4 when Black was manager!

 

[Sick Boy]

Tbh, I did watch a few games under Black (note: I was 9 when he was manager and didn't get up that often because no one could take me, bar football manager or football team) and after looking back at programmes when he managed he played a lot of formations, 4-3-3, 4-2-4, diamond 4-4-2. The point largely being that he did not play 4-4-2.




I know for a FACT we played 4-2-4 when Black was manager!

How do you know it as a FACT?

We did play 4-4-2 under Black as well.

 

[Grendel]

How do you know it as a FACT?

We did play 4-4-2 under Black as well.

We never played with 2 outright wingers. The Icelandic guy was key to blacks success and he played advanced right midfield but was never an out and out winger. It would be suicide to attempt that in the game now.

Most of the time was 4-4-2 but work the wide midfield in advanced positions. No team in 40 years of watching football has played the formation we see under thorn.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

How do you know it as a FACT?

We did play 4-4-2 under Black as well.

I remember seeing it in an old programme my mate had where it showed the team with the formation, we used in at least 2 games. B.Gudjonsson, Delameaux, suffo, Macca, Joachim all played.

We never played with 2 outright wingers. The Icelandic guy was key to blacks success and he played advanced right midfield but was never an out and out winger. It would be suicide to attempt that in the game now.

Most of the time was 4-4-2 but work the wide midfield in advanced positions. No team in 40 years of watching football has played the formation we see under thorn.

Even though AC Milan play it now

Italy play 4-1-3-2 but Monty pushes forward making it a diamond in play and England played it once in a friendly either before or after the '06 WC with Hargreaves sitting, Lampard, Gerrard and I think Beckham all in CM, again with Lampard pushing forward, to form a diamond in play.

 

[Grendel]

Ah well it's just the job in the lower leagues of English football then and the fact you cannot provide evidence of one English team that deploys it successfully is evidence enough.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Ah well it's just the job in the lower leagues of English football then and the fact you cannot provide evidence of one English team that deploys it successfully is evidence enough.

And Santos use it now...

Norwich, 2 promotions in a row, Swindon, one of the favourites this year.

Who says we need to play formations that only English teams use, AT can use formations used abroad.

If you think we should play 4-4-2 because it was a popular formation, it shows the backwardness of English fans... :facepalm: :claping hands:

Also, if 4-4-2 is such a great formation, why are the FA trying to get 4-3-3 popular @ grass roots and at professional academies... :laugh:

 

[Grendel]

And Santos use it now...

Norwich, 2 promotions in a row, Swindon, one of the favourites this year.

Who says we need to play formations that only English teams use, AT can use formations used abroad.

If you think we should play 4-4-2 because it was a popular formation, it shows the backwardness of English fans... :facepalm: :claping hands:

Also, if 4-4-2 is such a great formation, why are the FA trying to get 4-3-3 popular @ grass roots and at professional academies... :laugh:

And why since thorn took over are we at our lowest win ratio since 1917? Sorry little boy A for effort D for attainment.

 

[Sick Boy]

The diamond formation is not suitable for the players we have, why doesn't he play a formation keeping in mind the players we have?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

And why since thorn took over are we at our lowest win ratio since 1917? Sorry little boy A for effort D for attainment.

Face it, we've been on the decline since we got relegated! All of our managers have had appaling records. Coleman, if you dig a little deeper, underachieved massively whereas Thorn, well, no one was surprised when the inevitable happend or are you incredibly short-sighted and naive?

Calling me a little boy? Ha, resorting to cheap shots when I made you look a fool when you asked for lower league English teams who play the diamond.

I ask for a remark on my attainment score: A. As for effort, don't be too generous: C.

As for you, A* :jerkit: , N/A in argument content. ointlaugh:

Face it, we're sticking with Thorn, soo, back him and the team or feck off, wait when we're bottom half of the L1 to get on his back.

As it 'snows', how often do you go up the City?

 

[Sick Boy]

Roland Nilsson did not have an appalling record and Micky Adams got us up to an 8th place finish.

Why should someone back a manager who is clearly not suitable? He is and never will be bigger than the club.

 

[kg82]

Every manager that has been sacked, bar Black and Nilsson, were called for by the fans.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Roland Nilsson did not have an appalling record and Micky Adams got us up to an 8th place finish.

Why should someone back a manager who is clearly not suitable? He is and never will be bigger than the club.

I weren't really around for Nilsson but by the sounds of it, he didn't do particularly well either.

Adams should've had more time but, after the 8th place, we did rubbish the season after.

 

[Grendel]

I weren't really around for Nilsson but by the sounds of it, he didn't do particularly well either.

Adams should've had more time but, after the 8th place, we did rubbish the season after.

But a lot better than we did under thorn.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

But a lot better than we did under thorn.

With a quite clearly superior team, a team that was expected to be promoted. Whereas under Thorn we was expected to be relegated, oh and not to mention he had his players sold off and other managers before e.g. Coleman massively under achieved bearing in mind the money he had, wages they were on etc. all 'big names' have failed. Thorn has had to deal with a financial crisis and simply has got no money.

 

[WillieStanley]

I weren't really around for Nilsson but by the sounds of it, he didn't do particularly well either.

Adams should've had more time but, after the 8th place, we did rubbish the season after.

Nilsson had the rug pulled from under his feet. The then board had a great idea of installing the Bald Eagle as his assistant and the rest was history. Nilsson and Black were the great "what-ifs" of the post-prem era. To my memory, the only times where success wasn't just a pipe dream.

Sick Boy, I viewed Adams with an irrational dislike so probably don't read too much into this, but to my mind, it was the signing of Wise that got us that league position. Without Wise in the team, Adams was happless. The worst manager we've had since relegation from the prem.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The diamond formation is not suitable for the players we have, why doesn't he play a formation keeping in mind the players we have?

What suits our team then.

Give the biggun, now come up with a useful answer.

Say 4-4-2 and you are a fecking idiot. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

 

[Sick Boy]

What suits our team then.

Give the biggun, now come up with a useful answer.

Say 4-4-2 and you are a fecking idiot. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

I would use 3-5-2 or 4-3-2-1 - do you really think the diamond is a successful with the players we have?

 

[kg82]

I would use 3-5-2 or 4-3-2-1 - do you really think the diamond is a successful with the players we have?

He's only had 2 competetive games with what you would call "his" players. So you and I don't know yet.

 

[WillieStanley]

Say 4-4-2 and you are a fecking idiot.

What's next? "Dropped your gay card"? :facepalm::facepalm:

 

[Sick Boy]

Nilsson had the rug pulled from under his feet. The then board had a great idea of installing the Bald Eagle as his assistant and the rest was history. Nilsson and Black were the great "what-ifs" of the post-prem era. To my memory, the only times where success wasn't just a pipe dream.

Sick Boy, I viewed Adams with an irrational dislike so probably don't read too much into this, but to my mind, it was the signing of Wise that got us that league position. Without Wise in the team, Adams was happless. The worst manager we've had since relegation from the prem.

Wise was signed quite late on in the season, wasn't he? Adams hardly had a lot of cash to spend either, yet he led us to our best finish since relegation. Something no other manager has achieved since with larger budgets.

Why does Adams not deserve the credit for signing Wise? I was not a massive fan of his but why should some managers get praise for signings when others don't?

 

[kg82]

Wise was signed quite late on in the season, wasn't he? Adams hardly had a lot of cash to spend either, yet he led us to our best finish since relegation. Something no other manager has achieved since with larger budgets.

Why does Adams not deserve the credit for signing Wise? I was not a massive fan of his but why should some managers get praise for signings when others don't?

Wise was signed in January and at that point we were in the lower reaches of the table. Adams deserves the credit for signing him, sure.

 

[Sick Boy]

Wise was signed in January and at that point we were in the lower reaches of the table. Adams deserves the credit for signing him, sure.

Of course he does, as I remember the majority of people were very much against the signing.

 

[JulianDarbyFTW]

Yes, Dennis Wise was in some ways the Marlon King of his day in terms of public opinion.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Nilsson had the rug pulled from under his feet. The then board had a great idea of installing the Bald Eagle as his assistant and the rest was history. Nilsson and Black were the great "what-ifs" of the post-prem era. To my memory, the only times where success wasn't just a pipe dream.

Sick Boy, I viewed Adams with an irrational dislike so probably don't read too much into this, but to my mind, it was the signing of Wise that got us that league position. Without Wise in the team, Adams was happless. The worst manager we've had since relegation from the prem.

I had a quick search on Nilsson and I came across C&W reaction to him being sacked and a lot of people agreed with the board, however, I took into account their views could be disproportionate of the actual feeling amongst fans, as I said, I weren't really around for Nilsson so I don't have a valid opinion.

I would use 3-5-2 or 4-3-2-1 - do you really think the diamond is a successful with the players we have?

So formations we haven't used suit us better??

I think this diamond suits us:

-----Jennings-----
Barton----Thomas
-------Fleck-------

You've got all 4 midfielders good on the ball, in particular, Barton & Fleck and Thomas has proved good on the ball. Also, Thomas is a handy, box to box CM, can put in a good shift in all 3rds of the pitch, Barton is excellent on the ball and we're lucky to have him, Fleck, I think he is a real coup for the club, somewhat punching above our weight and he looks a class above. As for Jennings, he made his name in the SPL and L2 as a DM who breaks attacks up and plays a simple pass to someone better on the ball, perfect.

If we tried 3-5-2 a couple times this season I wouldn't complain, (I personally think it could suit us with Clarke and Hussy on the flanks) unless, we do really bad, BUT to say that'd suit us better than a formation we haven't lost in yet (this pre-season/season) is ridiculous. :facepalm:

What's next? "Dropped your gay card"? :facepalm::facepalm:

I started a thread on this.

What I perhaps should've said is, say 4-4-2 and I'd have to make you look a fool on why we should'nt play this.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Ah well it's just the job in the lower leagues of English football then and the fact you cannot provide evidence of one English team that deploys it successfully is evidence enough.

Norwich and Lambert used it in league 1 and championship, they are in the premier league now.

But don't let silly reasoning like that get in the way of your Thorn vendetta

Obviously there is more to management than just selecting a formation but the diamond can be successful if you have the right players and set up for it

If we are still playing bad and not looking like mounting a challenge after 10-15 games then I agree he should be replaced

Only an idiot would sack the manager after 1 game after allowing him to sign 9 new players just before that

 

[Grendel]

Norwich and Lambert used it in league 1 and championship, they are in the premier league now.

But don't let silly reasoning like that get in the way of your Thorn vendetta

Obviously there is more to management than just selecting a formation but the diamond can be successful if you have the right players and set up for it

If we are still playing bad and not looking like mounting a challenge after 10-15 games then I agree he should be replaced

Only an idiot would sack the manager after 1 game after allowing him to sign 9 new players just before that

What like the idiot that did it at Norwich you mean?

 

[kg82]

What like the idiot that did it at Norwich you mean?

They lost 7-1. We drew.

 

[QUICKER_THAN_WRIGHTY]

What like the idiot that did it at Norwich you mean?

1-1 is a little different to a 7-1 defeat with clive platt scoring against you

 

[kg82]

1-1 is a little different to a 7-1 defeat with clive platt scoring against you

Guess who scored for Norwich that day!

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

What like the idiot that did it at Norwich you mean?

We didn't lose 7-1 though at home. If we had I think the majority would be calling for his head

All I meant is you don't give a manager a chance to finally build a squad he wants only to sack him immediately unless something extreme happens like it did for Norwich

You just take every comment out of context

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Guess who scored for Norwich that day!

Cody Mc :guitar2:

 

[kg82]

Cody Mc :guitar2:

Bingo bango! Weird just reading a little about it. It was Norwich's first time in the 3rd level in nearly 50 years too.

 

[Grendel]

We didn't lose 7-1 though at home. If we had I think the majority would be calling for his head

All I meant is you don't give a manager a chance to finally build a squad he wants only to sack him immediately unless something extreme happens like it did for Norwich

You just take every comment out of context

I take nothing out of context. My view is he is nowhere near management material and never has been. Your view is different. Fair enough. We will see who is proved right. I hope it is you.

 

[Sick Boy]

Gunn was sacked after a 4-0 win, he also brought 12 players into the club before being fired.