Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
Derby fans already hating carpetbagger Ashley before he starts. Thick skinned bloke, or what?
Derby points deduction (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sky Blue Pete
- Start date
Derby fans already hating carpetbagger Ashley before he starts. Thick skinned bloke, or what?
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
Never got the hatred for Mike Ashley, werent Newcastle in tons of debt when he took over?
he’s a business man, but he never let Newcastle stay out of the premier league for long.
always thought Newcastle fans have got delusions of grandeur. Definition of an entitled club
he’s a business man, but he never let Newcastle stay out of the premier league for long.
always thought Newcastle fans have got delusions of grandeur. Definition of an entitled club
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
I don’t like the way that some of these clubs carry on particularly the way HMRC always seems to get shortchanged.
I hate paying tax as much as the next person but when clubs don’t pay their share then the average Joe proportionally has to find the share to pay for public services, else public services suffer.
Don’t get me on how St John’s Ambulance and other creditors get stiffed.
15p/£? Derby owed HMRC £28m. £28m? Scandalous.
The bottom line is it is unfair.
I’m not sure if the new rules class HMRC debt as football debt but IMO it should be. Perhaps all PAYE and NI for football contracts should be paid up front on signing a player, that’ll stop crazy situations where £28m gets accrued. VAT on ticket sales paid over at source and TV rights paid net of VAT or even players treated how subcontractors used to get paid.
Too often is the taxpayer (us) treated like a soft bank for foreign investors; have a gamble hoping for promotion, if it goes wrong then it’s bad but it’s creditors from HMRC to turnstile painters who really suffer.
I haven’t thought out the exactments of how it should / could work but it is so frustrating that time and again club owners mount up huge tax debt and end up just getting points deductions.
I don’t also like the way that Bury was treated and expelled when other clubs with bigger names seem to get away with doing the same thing.
Anyway, grumble over.
I hate paying tax as much as the next person but when clubs don’t pay their share then the average Joe proportionally has to find the share to pay for public services, else public services suffer.
Don’t get me on how St John’s Ambulance and other creditors get stiffed.
15p/£? Derby owed HMRC £28m. £28m? Scandalous.
The bottom line is it is unfair.
I’m not sure if the new rules class HMRC debt as football debt but IMO it should be. Perhaps all PAYE and NI for football contracts should be paid up front on signing a player, that’ll stop crazy situations where £28m gets accrued. VAT on ticket sales paid over at source and TV rights paid net of VAT or even players treated how subcontractors used to get paid.
Too often is the taxpayer (us) treated like a soft bank for foreign investors; have a gamble hoping for promotion, if it goes wrong then it’s bad but it’s creditors from HMRC to turnstile painters who really suffer.
I haven’t thought out the exactments of how it should / could work but it is so frustrating that time and again club owners mount up huge tax debt and end up just getting points deductions.
I don’t also like the way that Bury was treated and expelled when other clubs with bigger names seem to get away with doing the same thing.
Anyway, grumble over.
KenilworthSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't go as far as to say they had delusions of grandeur as there was plenty of merit to their hatred. Twice relegated under his stewardship, 8 year contract given to Pardew, refusing to sell when it was probably the right time to go, renaming of St James' park upon the promise of increased investment which didn't really happen, poor treatment of managers etc. Financially without a doubt he ran them well, but if you look at the decisions made under his stewardship, the majority were terrible.
I did actually think the view that Ashley didn't permit ANY investment into the playing squad was just pushing a narrative a bit though. Granted some seasons were probably inexcusably quiet and he could've invested more but if you look over the past 5 years they've actually spent over £250m on players (not including the most recent window) - which puts them around mid-tableish in terms of transfer spend under Ashley's reign. Equally he spent big when they were last relegated as well.
SkyblueDad
Well-Known Member
He knows the premier league is the only league to be in if he takes over at Derby even a relegated Derby on minus 15 points I don’t think it will be long before they are challenging at the top end of the championship.
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
Bid by Binnie family now irrelevant, as they withdraw interest in buying Derby
Derby County: Binnie family say club has ended talks with them
Derby County's administrators end talks with the Binnie family after deciding their latest £30m offer was too low.
www.bbc.co.uk
robbiethemole
Well-Known Member
Could be the last hope fading
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
Seems like their administrator is playing hardball and wanted £50m for Derby (incl stadium)
Our administrator was a push over iirc
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Of course it's Mel Morris that now owns the stadium & wants £20m for that alone not to mention it's his appointed administrator of course.
Wasn't so long ago that many were still desperate to blame Steve Gibson & said as soon as his claim was settled it was a done deal...
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
It’s not hardball I’m pretty sure majority of their football debts are around 20odd mil and they have to secure at least 15p in the £ for each unsecured creditor.
on top of that they need to pay 20 mil for the stadium
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
Get SISU to support finance the stadium and put Wasps there. Rent to Wasps and Derby to pay the finance costs.
Satire. Almost.
SkyblueDad
Well-Known Member
There seemed to be plenty wanting to buy them can one buy us instead.
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
'Quality' owner...agreed a deal with Preston, then pulled out last minute, before offering less than the previously agreed bid...and they quite rightly told him to do one.
After that setback, rocks back up at Derby and named preferred bidder....deletes twitch account to remove historical sexist and homophobic remarks.
This can only go well for Derby (not)
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Frostie
Well-Known Member
Interesting to see how he negotiates the stadium deal with Mel Morris after publicly calling him a "fuck job"
Those historic Tweets are appalling but won't stop him buying the club, football has no morals.
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
Be interesting when their 15 point deduction gets applied
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
Sunderland ??
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
Seems like the league are edging towards giving them -15 points this season...which is a travesty, as they are already as good as down.
Should definitely be next season, otherwise it's not a punishment at all.
I'm sorry, but the league cant 'feel sorry' for Derby and dock them points this season...there should be no sentiment, and rules should be stuck to.
slyblue57
Well-Known Member
EFL sticking to rules lol, I think the EFL have different rules for different teams
SkyblueDad
Well-Known Member
That’s where Derby have slipped up should have taken the hit last season gone down and re-grouped, they are a decent team and in my opinion would have finished at least in the play-offs of league one.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
I would hope so with a 30k per week midfielder, they definitely can’t be in the ever expanding bottom six payers in this league.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
And another on c.£25k per week who should have cost them a £10m transfer fee but they still owe £8m for him & have failed to pay the agreed installments.
Not for much longer I wouldn't think.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
I guess they have to pay that money to Arsenal now
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
There is plenty of talk that this new owner doesn't have big resources, and this whole scenario could happen again in 12 months time.
He may have made the most generous bid for Derby, but he certainly seems to have the least deep pockets.
He may have made the most generous bid for Derby, but he certainly seems to have the least deep pockets.
shepardo01
Well-Known Member
They won't... whatever might be agreed "in the pound" by administrators...
They might have to pay a million or so, and will be deducted the 15 points fir coming out of admin but not fully paying creditors. Can't see the new guy agreeing to pay all debts in full...
Hope they get the -15 next season, but still go down this season....
Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
Yes happily
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Yes I'd happily have him put 100 mill into our playing squad
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
shepardo01
Well-Known Member
Yeah....could be wrong, think the controversy is that football creditors have to be paid first.... not sure if full or not though.....
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Yeah, football creditors have to be paid in full. Imagine if Derby owed millions to a lower league club & didn't pay it all, they might end up in administration too.
Derby have been incredibly fortunate that Arsenal don't need the money really, they've willingly deferred payments.
SkyblueDad
Well-Known Member
Would you ?
Sometimes it is better the devil you know.