End Product - The Statistics (3 Viewers)

[napolimp]

We're 11th in the league and are 11th top scorers. Lack of goals isn't quite the issue its being made out to be though clearly if we want to bridge the gap to the top 6 we need improvement.

Millwall are above us with 9 less goals but they have a fantastic defensive record.

Or we're 11th because we're the 11th top scorers?

Shots stats make much more interesting reading. We're behind only Fulham on total shots and shots on target. 182 total shots this season, Bournemouth have had 167 in 3rd. It's actually a very good representation of the league, apart from we're a lot lower than in the shots table, and Luton are a lot higher. Clearly finishing is a big issue.

I'd be much more worried if I were Luton, where would they be if they suddenly stopped being so clinical?

 

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[cc84cov]

It’s happened 3 times this season where Kane has started with Dabo on the bench, it was the first 3 games Dabo was back after injury. He’s making stats up off the top of his head again.

Least it’s happened unlike when I asked you to find me slagging off Tavares you couldn’t find you waffle head

 

[Frostie]

Or we're 11th because we're the 11th top scorers?

Shots stats make much more interesting reading. We're behind only Fulham on total shots and shots on target. 182 total shots this season, Bournemouth have had 167 in 3rd. It's actually a very good representation of the league, apart from we're a lot lower than in the shots table, and Luton are a lot higher. Clearly finishing is a big issue.

I'd be much more worried if I were Luton, where would they be if they suddenly stopped being so clinical?

We generally take a lot of poor quality shots though.
The last few games however both our xG & our Chances Created have seen massive improvement. The Sheffield United game is almost an anomaly here because it has massively inflated our figures with how good we were.

Luton take a lot less shots yes but create at least as good chances as us. They are slightly behind us in xG but actually ahead of us for Big Chances Created.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The point is that very few in the team can shoot properly, and we need to bring a couple in to do that next year. It's stating the bleedin' obvious, but you don't score by sweeping it tamely wide or too near the keeper. Go through the squad and ask yourself how confident you would be in each player to finish a clear chance from 15 yards.

Don't get me wrong, this is probably our most entertaining team since we dropped out of the Prem, and we knock it around superbly. It's just a shame so few can pick the right spot and hit it with power and accuracy. You'd like to think Robins could teach them, but I'm not sure it's something that can be learned once you are a pro in your twenties?

Wouldn't it be cheaper to bring in a striking coach to try and improve the current lot first?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to bring in a striking coach to try and improve the current lot first?

Wouldn't get much done

 

[CDK]

Think it's easy to put a thread up like this and we are a weak side,but we are a side getting stronger season by season up to now.We need to carry on improving with ability and existing players getting more confident and learning.

 

[Johhny Blue]

Or we're 11th because we're the 11th top scorers?

Shots stats make much more interesting reading. We're behind only Fulham on total shots and shots on target. 182 total shots this season, Bournemouth have had 167 in 3rd. It's actually a very good representation of the league, apart from we're a lot lower than in the shots table, and Luton are a lot higher. Clearly finishing is a big issue.

I'd be much more worried if I were Luton, where would they be if they suddenly stopped being so clinical?

Does that include the O’Hare shots that are on target but don’t make it to the goal?

 

[cc84cov]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to bring in a striking coach to try and improve the current lot first?

Isn’t the manager a former striker who played under sir Alex ?

 

[clint van damme]

Isn’t the manager a former striker who played under sir Alex ?

Don't you know?

 

[Super Graham Withey]

The entire defence is a much bigger priority at the moment, we give away so many pathetic goals.

Agreed- Our problem is not going forward it is at the back. In numerous home games recently we have conceded the first goal early allowing the opposition to sit back and play on the break hence our high possession stats, Sorting Out central defence hascto be the priority for the Summer. We need a replacement for Fadz who has been brilliant for us but can.t go on forever, Hyam is too slow if we want to progress and Rose frustratingly inconsistent. Clarke Salter has been our best defender this season but can we afford him? If you look at the stats I should think all the sides above us will have conceded fewer goals than us this season,

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Agreed- Our problem is not going forward it is at the back. In numerous home games recently we have conceded the first goal early allowing the opposition to sit back and play on the break hence our high possession stats, Sorting Out central defence hascto be the priority for the Summer. We need a replacement for Fadz who has been brilliant for us but can.t go on forever, Hyam is too slow if we want to progress and Rose frustratingly inconsistent. Clarke Salter has been our best defender this season but can we afford him? If you look at the stats I should think all the sides above us will have conceded fewer goals than us this season,

We do have problems at the back certainly, there is a good thread discussing it at the moment and how we switch off a lot for the first goal.

That being said, for me we have more than enough chances to counter that defensive problems. We aren´t dangerous enough with what we have, and we are certainly not clinical at all. Even the Sheffield Untied game, whilst we won 4-1, was bonkers it wasn´t double that.

I think part of the problem is the system, and this effects both the front and the back. 3 central defenders, all of which seem to take it in turns to drop a clanger. Wing backs that have no end product, and midfielders that are really poor at shooting. The frustrating thing is that (and I think Nick pointed it out), even when we eventually make changes, we often just throw players in and keep the same system. We are very predictable and there is never a plan B. People can argue this season has been a success, and whilst I certainly think it is an improvement, I am also really frustrated we are sitting so close the play offs. Being about 1% smarter and we would be sitting in them.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Isn’t the manager a former striker who played under sir Alex ?

Doesn't necessarily making him good at teaching others.

Sometimes just having a natural ability or aptitude at something makes it harder to teach other people, because they don't have that same inherent skill as you and you don't know why it is they don't have it.

 

[Warwickhunt]

The point is that very few in the team can shoot properly, and we need to bring a couple in to do that next year. It's stating the bleedin' obvious, but you don't score by sweeping it tamely wide or too near the keeper. Go through the squad and ask yourself how confident you would be in each player to finish a clear chance from 15 yards.

Don't get me wrong, this is probably our most entertaining team since we dropped out of the Prem, and we knock it around superbly. It's just a shame so few can pick the right spot and hit it with power and accuracy. You'd like to think Robins could teach them, but I'm not sure it's something that can be learned once you are a pro in your twenties?

point in being is that Gyokeres scores most of his goals when he miss hits them! every time he get a good strike its either at the goalkeeper or just past the woodwork. look at the over the top ball to Gyokeres against Sheff Utd if he had hit that cleanly the goalie would have saved it.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Agreed- Our problem is not going forward it is at the back. In numerous home games recently we have conceded the first goal early allowing the opposition to sit back and play on the break hence our high possession stats, Sorting Out central defence hascto be the priority for the Summer. We need a replacement for Fadz who has been brilliant for us but can.t go on forever, Hyam is too slow if we want to progress and Rose frustratingly inconsistent. Clarke Salter has been our best defender this season but can we afford him? If you look at the stats I should think all the sides above us will have conceded fewer goals than us this season,

Well, it's a mix of both.

If we took more of our chances these lapses of concentration wouldn't be as costly and the defence wouldn't be under pressure to keep a clean sheet. But at the same time if we didn't concede first there wouldn't be the same amount of pressure.

Neither are massive problems as it stands - we do still score some goals and the defence is solid enough for most of the game apart from the odd lapse. It's just they need improving if we're to hope of continuing our upward trajectory.

I think we will see more effort put into bolstering the defence in the summer, mainly because we're going to be losing two loanees, have one CB who is getting on a bit and one who we're not certain has the consistency to be a regular.

We have issues attacking wise too (we need a goalscoring AM urgently) but the strikers we have will all still be in contract, some of decent wages, that we may struggle to move on and so we're kind of left with them by default.

 

[Warwickhunt]

Doesn't necessarily making him good at teaching others.

Sometimes just having a natural ability or aptitude at something makes it harder to teach other people, because they don't have that same inherent skill as you and you don't know why it is they don't have it.

Apparently its all about the players ability to become ice cold when in on goal, i only ever see that on Godden.

 

[PVA]

This hasn't been updated since November sadly, would be good to see an up to date version.

It shows Godden and Gyokeres as amongst the top 10% of finishers and shows that Waghorn, O'Hare, Hamer and Sheaf should score more.

Pretty much as expected though I would suspect an updated version would have Gyokeres much lower.

Also the Expected Goals table (up to date) is as expected.

Shows that we would be 4th in the league on expected goals. So clearly we create so many chances, we just cannot convert them.

Expected goals table: Championship, 13 Mar 2022

These alternative league tables are calculated using expected goals (as seen in my match timelines). There’s a full explanation in the first post here.

experimental361.com

 

[Frostie]

This hasn't been updated since November sadly, would be good to see an up to date version.

It shows Godden and Gyokeres as amongst the top 10% of finishers and shows that Waghorn, O'Hare, Hamer and Sheaf should score more.

Pretty much as expected though I would suspect an updated version would have Gyokeres much lower.

Also the Expected Goals table (up to date) is as expected.

Shows that we would be 4th in the league on expected goals. So clearly we create so many chances, we just cannot convert them.

Expected goals table: Championship, 13 Mar 2022

These alternative league tables are calculated using expected goals (as seen in my match timelines). There’s a full explanation in the first post here.

experimental361.com

Quick fag packet maths update for the 3 strikers & O'Hare currently:

Gyökeres:
NPG/90 - 0.41
NPxG/90 - 0.45

Godden:
NPG/90 - 0.52
NPxG/90 - 0.44

Waghorn:
NPG/90 - 0.09
NPxG/90 - 0.32

O'Hare:
NPG/90 - 0.09
NPxG/90 - 0.26

 

[napolimp]

This hasn't been updated since November sadly, would be good to see an up to date version.

It shows Godden and Gyokeres as amongst the top 10% of finishers and shows that Waghorn, O'Hare, Hamer and Sheaf should score more.

Pretty much as expected though I would suspect an updated version would have Gyokeres much lower.

Also the Expected Goals table (up to date) is as expected.

Shows that we would be 4th in the league on expected goals. So clearly we create so many chances, we just cannot convert them.

Expected goals table: Championship, 13 Mar 2022

These alternative league tables are calculated using expected goals (as seen in my match timelines). There’s a full explanation in the first post here.

experimental361.com

This is interesting.

We have also conceded the most goals out of the top 14, I wonder if that's correlated to the amount of chances we create - style of play, set up, tactics - or is there a problem with the strength of our actual defence?

If so, you'd think good defenders would be the easiest/cheapest positions to acquire for. Maybe focusing on this area in the summer would be the best way to improve the squad.

 

[Briles]

I posted this on another topic, but think it probably deserves its own thread. I was looking at the stats from last night and once again we have dominated possession, set pieces, and shots. However, we lost 2-0. Result aside, it feels like you could copy and paste the same figures for about 80% of our games this season. It got me thinking, so I went through and looked at the goals and assists from our team per player. The list is core squad members, and their stats include their full CCFC career, which obviously means in some cases games across other leagues and not just the Championship.

Fantaky Dabo: 94 games, 5 assists, 0 goals.
Jake Bidwell: 10 games, 0 assists, 0 goals.
Jake Clarke-Salter: 28 games, 0 assists, 0 goals.
Dominic Hyam: 180 games, 1 assist, 9 goals.
Michael Rose: 83 games, 4 assists, 3 goals.
Kyle McFadzean: 112 games, 2 assists, 5 goals.
Ian Maatsen: 33 games, 1 assist, 3 goals.
Todd Kane: 25 games, 5 assists, 1 goal.

Gustavo Hamer: 76 games, 9 assists, 8 goals.
Ben Sheaf: 62 games, 5 assists, 0 goals.
Jamie Allen: 70 games, 4 assists, 3 goals.
Liam Kelly: 144 games, 11 assists, 3 goals.
Jordan Shipley: 160 games, 14 assists, 20 goals.
Josh Eccles: 26 games, 1 assist, 0 goals.
Callum O´Hare: 125 games, 20 assists, 10 goals.

Viktor Gyokeres: 56 games, 5 assists, 17 goals.
Matty Godden: 78 games, 6 assists, 32 goals.
Martyn Waghorn: 23 games, 2 assists, 1 goal.
Tyler Walker: 53 games, 3 assists, 11 goals.



It raises a few points:

- We have some great players in the squad, but there is probably more dead wood not contributing than people think.
- If we are insistent on the wingback system, we need players in those positions to contribute with assists and goals, which they aren´t doing enough.
- If the strikers are having an off day, we are unlikely to score. The midfield are extremely goal shy other than Hamer, who often sits deep anyway.
- There are a few players that had better stats in lower leagues, but aren´t performing to this level.
- Some CBs have more assists and goals than midfielders.
- I know as a CB it isn´t your job to score, but they should be a threat at set pieces. We are extremely poor at utilising them in my opinion (but that is a separate point not necessarily linked to these stats).


People can of course interpret this information as they want to, and I hope we can have a good debate about it. It isn´t just a case of having a go because we lost last night. There is a bigger picture here that probably needs addressing and has been on my mind for a while. Certainly from a personal perspective it gets so frustrating to watch us dominate so many games but come up short too often.

Interested to hear other people´s opinions on this.

Might be a bit out there but it's almost as if now our players don't fit the system that did us so well previously. Maybe Robins will try something new next season formation wise

 

[PVA]

Might be a bit out there but it's almost as if now our players don't fit the system that did us so well previously. Maybe Robins will try something new next season formation wise

I'm not sure on that. Which players do you think don't fit the system?

I would say that Bidwell and Kane looks like they'd make better fullbacks than wingbacks, but other than that I think all players fit the system well. We're not playing anyone out of position.

 

[Briles]

I'm not sure on that. Which players do you think don't fit the system?

I would say that Bidwell and Kane looks like they'd make better fullbacks than wingbacks, but other than that I think all players fit the system well. We're not playing anyone out of position.

I just think hamer is too creative to be sitting as deep as he does, and sheaf needs to be more box to box. We've got wingbacks who are more full backs (when maatsen leaves) and the little and large partnership with gyo and godden isn't as affective together as biamou and mcnulty were this formation for example. I've thought for a while the formation needs a shakeup but I guess it's the coventry dna and how Robins wants to play. With the right recruitment this formation will be back to its best.

 

[PVA]

I just think hamer is too creative to be sitting as deep as he does, and sheaf needs to be more box to box. We've got wingbacks who are more full backs (when maatsen leaves) and the little and large partnership with gyo and godden isn't as affective together as biamou and mcnulty were this formation for example. I've thought for a while the formation needs a shakeup but I guess it's the coventry dna and how Robins wants to play. With the right recruitment this formation will be back to its best.

I have to disagree I'm afraid (apart from the wingbacks - Bidwell and Kane as I mentioned previously).

Hamer doesn't sit deep he is definitely box to box.

If you're only playing two in midfield you can't have them both box to box, one of them has to sit and that's Sheaf's job.

Biamou and McNulty didn't play in this formation, we played 442 with them.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

It's ridiculous to expect to score 2 goals a game minimum to win a game.

We struggle to keep a clean sheet. Always concede the first goal.

Lets sort these issues out. And maybe give is is chance of just converting just 1 chance to win a match!

 

[PUSB-We_are_going_up]

I posted this on another topic, but think it probably deserves its own thread. I was looking at the stats from last night and once again we have dominated possession, set pieces, and shots. However, we lost 2-0. Result aside, it feels like you could copy and paste the same figures for about 80% of our games this season. It got me thinking, so I went through and looked at the goals and assists from our team per player. The list is core squad members, and their stats include their full CCFC career, which obviously means in some cases games across other leagues and not just the Championship.

Fantaky Dabo: 94 games, 5 assists, 0 goals.
Jake Bidwell: 10 games, 0 assists, 0 goals.
Jake Clarke-Salter: 28 games, 0 assists, 0 goals.
Dominic Hyam: 180 games, 1 assist, 9 goals.
Michael Rose: 83 games, 4 assists, 3 goals.
Kyle McFadzean: 112 games, 2 assists, 5 goals.
Ian Maatsen: 33 games, 1 assist, 3 goals.
Todd Kane: 25 games, 5 assists, 1 goal.

Gustavo Hamer: 76 games, 9 assists, 8 goals.
Ben Sheaf: 62 games, 5 assists, 0 goals.
Jamie Allen: 70 games, 4 assists, 3 goals.
Liam Kelly: 144 games, 11 assists, 3 goals.
Jordan Shipley: 160 games, 14 assists, 20 goals.
Josh Eccles: 26 games, 1 assist, 0 goals.
Callum O´Hare: 125 games, 20 assists, 10 goals.

Viktor Gyokeres: 56 games, 5 assists, 17 goals.
Matty Godden: 78 games, 6 assists, 32 goals.
Martyn Waghorn: 23 games, 2 assists, 1 goal.
Tyler Walker: 53 games, 3 assists, 11 goals.



It raises a few points:

- We have some great players in the squad, but there is probably more dead wood not contributing than people think.
- If we are insistent on the wingback system, we need players in those positions to contribute with assists and goals, which they aren´t doing enough.
- If the strikers are having an off day, we are unlikely to score. The midfield are extremely goal shy other than Hamer, who often sits deep anyway.
- There are a few players that had better stats in lower leagues, but aren´t performing to this level.
- Some CBs have more assists and goals than midfielders.
- I know as a CB it isn´t your job to score, but they should be a threat at set pieces. We are extremely poor at utilising them in my opinion (but that is a separate point not necessarily linked to these stats).


People can of course interpret this information as they want to, and I hope we can have a good debate about it. It isn´t just a case of having a go because we lost last night. There is a bigger picture here that probably needs addressing and has been on my mind for a while. Certainly from a personal perspective it gets so frustrating to watch us dominate so many games but come up short too often.

Interested to hear other people´s opinions on this.

20 goals 20 goals Jordan Shipley, 20 goals 20 goals I say

 

[PUSB-We_are_going_up]

- If we are insistent on the wingback system, we need players in those positions to contribute with assists and goals, which they aren´t doing enough.

I quite like the look of Pipa from Huddersfield played 5 games this season due to Sorba Thomas’s breakthrough and injury, only 24 could potentially poach him if they go up and on a similar budget to last season and sell Walker

edit : could also do what we did with Maatsen and loan a Chelsea LWB who has been at Charlton Juan Familia-Castillo

 

[Frostie]

- If we are insistent on the wingback system, we need players in those positions to contribute with assists and goals, which they aren´t doing enough.

Which wing-back got most Assists in the league last season?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Which wing-back got most Assists in the league last season?

Go on, put me out of my misery. Who is it?

 

[Frostie]

Go on, put me out of my misery. Who is it?