fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
After 5 years of austerity in 2015 they managed to increase the Tory majority. Nobody wants the third way drivel like the silly windfall tax
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (130 Viewers)
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fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
With energy you either nationalise it or you regulate it with extreme vigour, you don't say "we're quite comfortable with you extracting huge profits as long as you pay a bit in tax" it's honestly insulting, money going out of people's pockets and ultimately the real economy is a disaster for everybody
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
The money off will be less than the increase over the next 6 months.
It’s a piss poor offer that says ‘shareholder dividends > peoples ability to heat and feed their children’
If that's pathetic then what do you make of the government's response?
It's a shame that Corbynites would rather see the Tories and Boris Johnson in power than a Starmer led Labour government.
Starmer isn't perfect, far from it, but he's a million times preferable to Boris fucking Johnson.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Here you go again with that ‘Corbynites’ bollocks….
The one thing that Corbyn did do was set an agenda of what doing things differently could look like. He wasn’t capable of getting it done sadly but that doesn’t mean you have to expect less as a result.
Starmer had one job - take Corbyn’s ideas and put an ‘electable’ face on it with no baggage or history to hold him back. He has totally and utterly failed in nearly every single aspect.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
It's irrelevant what the government's response is, they are Tories who privatised energy companies in the first place. I know how the government is going to respond. What's more important to me is what the only party I have ever voted for would do differently. Not very much by the sound of it.
I am not a Corbynite, it's just my own political beliefs were well matched with Labour's policy agenda in Corbyn's time as leader.
You have such a superficial understanding of politics that you think that Labour's increased popular vote in 2017 was down to adoration for Corbyn
It's not bollocks though, Corbyn fans are so anti-Starmer that they're just presenting the Tories with a victory on a platter. Would you rather Johnson or Starmer was PM?
And how has Starmer failed to put an electable face on it when he took over with a 20 point deficit and now has a 5 point lead? If that's utter failure then blimey what what does that make Corbyn giving the Tories an 80 seat majority?
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It's irrelevant what the government's response is, they are Tories who privatised energy companies in the first place. I know how the government is going to respond. What's more important to me is what the only party I have ever voted for would do differently. Not very much by the sound of it.
I am not a Corbynite, it's just my own political beliefs were well matched with Labour's policy agenda in Corbyn's time as leader.
You have such a superficial understanding of politics that you think that Labour's increased popular vote in 2017 was down to adoration for Corbyn
Then I think we just look at things very differently.
To me the most important thing is not what any party would do with the energy crisis if they were in power, because that isn't going to help people pay their bills over the next few months. It's what the government, those who have the power, can do to help people right now when they need it and it's them that should be getting the brunt of people's frustrations, not the bloke who might possibly be in power in 2 years.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Ok then, let's look at it your way. Say the government should do what Labour is suggesting, a windfall tax to reduce the annual increase (average for the poorest is £708) in energy bills by £200.
Can you explain to me how that will solve the chronic poverty that many people are facing?
I never said it would solve chronic poverty.
Why are many people in poverty - because of 12 years of Tory government or because of 2 years of Starmer opposition?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I think we're both coming from same direction and both want the same result - an end of Tory government and an improved society, particularly for those less well off.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Why do you seem to have such a blind spot on this?
It’s not about people being Corbyn fans at all - it’s the fact that he set a policy agenda that resonated with lots and lots of people, causing more people to vote for Labour in 2017 then we had seen for many years. Equally you saw that drop when he agreed to a suicidal policy on Brexit in 2019.
Starmer has set to tearing that policy agenda apart under some untrue guise about ‘electability’ and replaced it with nothing other than some shitty 3 word rubbish.
That’s why he’s a failure - a lot of it may well be down to being very poorly advised, but if he can’t see that the public need more than a Blair/Miliband rehash then it’s on him.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Bloody hell. When you see it laid bare
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What a bunch of cunts we’ve allowed into government and therefore become ourselves. It’s staggering how the people who like to hark back to what Britain did in the war are least like what British people and government did in the war. Shame on us
Grendel
Well-Known Member
he just sees politics in some binary simplistic manner. He can’t see the reason for labours failure in the north seats was the brexit policy and three words won the election
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Tory lite
Er, no I have said the North seats went because of Brexit. And I have said numerous times it was won because of that stupid fucking three word slogan.
Will be good to have them straight back next GE election though once they realise they made a massive mistake.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Any comments on the videos grendel? Pride?? Any judgement or is Boris just a fun lad with britains interests at heart
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It was his attitude to Brexit that caused many of the issues. A well communicated, consistent policy that involved a (democratic!) vote (let's not forget, in pure Greek democracy, every decision is supposed to be voted on by the people!) was fine, but Corbyn was entirely incompetent in delivering, or showing any energy, or capability. He was a massive let-down. Ditto the initial vote, where he couldn't bring himself to get behind his party's position, but nor was he able to show his own convictions.
Of course, the biggest criticisms of Corbyn and now Starmer appear to come from the left-leaning people, which I too find absurd. On this board, of the right leaning ones, I can only think of Steve who comes close to criticising Johnson!
A lot will come back.
This cost of living crisis is going to hit people so hard, unfortunately, and a lot of that is going to come back on the Tories.
Vote Tory for the first time and end up with the worst cost of living crisis in a generation. That's not going to go down well.
Plus no Brexit, no Corbyn. There's a lot going against the tories this time round.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I think most people just want to move past Brexit TBH. Tories offered that, Labour wanted to drag it out. I don’t think that many people care now were out apart from the hardcore on each side which isn’t a massive number. Immigration concerns have dropped through the floor as well. I think we’ll be back to economic competence being the main issue next election.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
And yet the polling is looking good and the centre left is still the only part of the party to win an election.
Most people don’t want massive change. That scares the shit out of them. They want competence and compassion. It’s students and the like who want to dismantle capitalism or whatever.
The idea the last Labour govenrment changed fuck all is laughable I’m sorry. Labour governments are better than Tory ones always. Socially, economically, environmentally. The idea it’s revolutionary socialism or bust is for 15 year olds.
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
The wonders of direct democracy. Of course, the problem with Athenian democracy was only a few of its Citizenship, opposed to the wider population, were allowed to vote.
I still don't understand, with the technology which is around now, that people are not allowed to vote directly on issues. Surely this would be a good way to make up a second virtual chamber.
Seems like the political parties don't want to give up on their powers.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I never suggested that the last Labour government did nothing - but the last one elected was 2005 by which point they had regressed hugely from their 1997 high and the world has changed a lot since then.
The Tories took us through 5 years of austerity and then still managed to go from a hung parliament to and outright majority in 2015, when Labour were incidentally trying this whole shtick they are doing now.
Compassion and competence is a good combination - but I see little evidence Starmer is capable of either.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Tories going to Tory
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
For balance this doesn't look great either.
Labour staff 'gagged' over sexual harassment claims
Two former Labour staff were asked to sign confidentiality agreements after bringing harassment complaints against a senior official.
www.bbc.co.uk