Most people on here seem to think that the sacking of AT was correct BUT at the wrong time. It seems that most would have sacked in the summer but given that he was handed a rubbish card i.e. only academy players and no money to work with it only seems fair to me that he should have had the summer to bring in his own players and given a few games to get them playing. It was clearly obvious that nothing had changed and therefore in my opinion was correctly sacked. Is my view at odds here?
Andy Thorn's sacking (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Tonylinc
- Start date
skybluesteve76
New Member
Agreed mate.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I agree it is odd. It's almost as of they felt he wasn't up to it but decided to let him have the summer to see it could work.
The big question is where does that leave Carsley and shaw? I believe we will get someone new and they normally want their own staff.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Agreed I think he will receive nothing like a years salary and I wouldn't be surprised if shaw is on a probation period as well.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
We made AB and AT work with the existing staff so I presume that will be the case again
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be surprised if they go as well or the replacement has already said he will work with them.
I was under the impression that it was Shaw and Carsley as joint managers in muh the same way as Sillitt and Curtis. Come to think of it that didn't pan out too badly.
Martin180
Well-Known Member
I personally think he has been proper bummed by SISU , he has used his scouting ability to bring in some exciting players like Barton ,Fleck ,Elliott ,Jennings, Malaga and others and they havent given him any time to work with them properly .
Cheers Andy , thanks for scouting these players ,now a new manager will get the credit........
Cheers Andy , thanks for scouting these players ,now a new manager will get the credit........
To some extent, I agree with you BUT a new and "proper" Manager will get the best out of those players whereas AT would have been unable to do that.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I have no opinion on the sacking at the minute, we'll see come April!
But to those who are saying it was correct but at the wrong? You sack him if you no longer have faith in him, why wait more games, where more points can be lost before acting, say we waited 10 games and it went badly, people would moan saying the timing was poor 'cause we should've got rid of him sooner.
In fact, when should we have sacked him, when the board known they were going to sack him!?
But to those who are saying it was correct but at the wrong? You sack him if you no longer have faith in him, why wait more games, where more points can be lost before acting, say we waited 10 games and it went badly, people would moan saying the timing was poor 'cause we should've got rid of him sooner.
In fact, when should we have sacked him, when the board known they were going to sack him!?
Martin180
Well-Known Member
Maybe but i still think they have shafted Thorn ,if SISU get rid at the end of last season would we have signed some or any of the new players ? A "proper" manager might have played it too safe
Diehard Si
New Member
I didn't think he should go but at least now the new manager gets most of a season to sort us out.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Why hypothesise favourable scenarios for Thorn? You can just look at his body of work, which was consistently unsatisfactory.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Are you having a laugh? Name any football club that would ever have given such a limited individual a chance at management? He's on the ladder now and may even get another chance. Heaven help the club that takes him though. Perhaps he'll at least sign bell one he definately scouted.
He should be very very grateful to sisu.
Martin180
Well-Known Member
What i am saying is i think SISU have utilised Thorns Scouting ability over the summer ,and as such we have a very useful looking squad of players
I dont think i suggested he was a particularily good manager
@richh87
Member
Thorn's scouting ability is unquestionable IMO - and that is a useful strength as a Manager. Unfortunately it isn't enough to be a good Manager.
He's a quality Scout - and i'm sure a team in a higher league than us will pick him up.
davebart
Active Member
Some people just won't let go will they?
We have had a succession of so called managers. 11 in 11 years. In that time not one has set the world alight.
Yet to many Thorn is to blame for everything that is wrong with City.
Well he's gone now so you've got your wish. I hope all your other wishes come true. Life is like that.
We have had a succession of so called managers. 11 in 11 years. In that time not one has set the world alight.
Yet to many Thorn is to blame for everything that is wrong with City.
Well he's gone now so you've got your wish. I hope all your other wishes come true. Life is like that.
Martin180
Well-Known Member
Thats what i meant earlier when i said i think Thorn has been bummed .SISU have utilised his skills and then have thought maybe a "better" manager will get the best out of them .
Maybe shrewd business sense but a tad harsh imo
Martin180
Well-Known Member
Hence my very much tongue in cheek thread -Shaw and Carsley out
Yet like so much on here ,it is now running away with posts.......:thinking about:
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Just not true.
@richh87
Member
Yeah; I think everyone involved would love to just shift him back to being Head Scout - but obviously it can't happen.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by davebart
Some people just won't let go will they?
We have had a succession of so called managers. 11 in 11 years. In that time not one has set the world alight.
Yet to many Thorn is to blame for everything that is wrong with City.
Well he's gone now so you've got your wish. I hope all your other wishes come true. Life is like that.
No-one has ever said that Thorn is to blame for everything.
Sorry, but that is a daft thing to come out with and wildly inaccurate.
Thorn has merely been part of the problem. Sorry, but for many of us that has been as clear as day for quite some time. Nice bloke, good scout, falls short of what's required to be a football manager. Harsh but true. Life is like that.
Some people just won't let go will they?We have had a succession of so called managers. 11 in 11 years. In that time not one has set the world alight.
Yet to many Thorn is to blame for everything that is wrong with City.
Well he's gone now so you've got your wish. I hope all your other wishes come true. Life is like that.
No-one has ever said that Thorn is to blame for everything.
Sorry, but that is a daft thing to come out with and wildly inaccurate.
Thorn has merely been part of the problem. Sorry, but for many of us that has been as clear as day for quite some time. Nice bloke, good scout, falls short of what's required to be a football manager. Harsh but true. Life is like that.
@richh87
Member
Please elaborate...
Colonel Mustard
New Member
11 managers in 11 years. Go back 11 years and you'll find the first change was Roland Nilsson. In his tenure, before Jim Smith was foisted upon him, his CCFC team averaged 1.77 points per game for an 81 point pace. That is comfortably in the playoffs and possibly challenging for automatic promotion. He took the club from 19th place to 8th place in a few months.
Go to the next year and you'll find Eric Black. In his tenure the team averaged 1.56 points per game at a 72 point pace, which would have been challenging for the playoffs with a very average squad.
Both these managers were sacked by Mike McGinnity.
I cannot stress this enough times - if you chop and change every year without discrimination, sure, it is a losing policy. That's what CCFC has done at times. But if it recognised the strong-performing managers that have dropped in its lap, we wouldn't have had anywhere near 11 changes in this time period.
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@richh87
Member
I can't argue with the Eric Black to be fair. Roland Nilsson - as much as I love the guy and he's since done well as a Manager, was a novice at the time with lots of Premier League players. Not making the playoffs wasn't good enough IMO.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Thing is, he was well on course to make the playoffs before Jim Smith was installed in the dugout. Nilsson had completely revolutionised the City squad.
@richh87
Member
It's tricky when back room staff get the blame for things. Nobody really knows how they are contributing. Could be a coincidence - but might not by the same token.
I'd happily have Roland back now that he's experienced.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
This is generally true. However, let's not forget Jim Smith's reputation at the time of his hiring. He was no 'assistant' type - he'd had a long career as the boss, the 'bald eagle'. I remember at the time of his hiring people questioning who the players would be reporting to. Either way, the surest action would have been to fire Smith and see how Nilsson got on by himself again.