Do you want to discuss boring politics? (179 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
We want answers. Don’t give us answers that’s not fair.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
'It's ok when we do it'
Some right hypocrites on this thread.
Some right hypocrites on this thread.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Do what?
Raab was everywhere at the weekend accusing him of being a hypocrite for not confirming that he would resign if he gets a FPN. Are you accusing Raab of coercing him?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
What’s ok Esb?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
You sure you’re in the right thread? This is the one where everyone has said if he broke the law he should resign, exactly the same as is being requested of Johnson.
Maybe read before throwing out what you wanted to say so you don’t look so silly and partisan.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Starmer is right in the shit here and there are some people in this thread who (well rightly) scorend Johnson but are throwing shade on Beer Gate.
I know the investigation needs to be done properly, but I'm seriously questioning some people who claimed to be outraged previously.
And for the record I've made my stance clear on anyone in a position of responsibility thinking they are above the rules. Party and politics is irrelevant.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Are you blind?
There are several people in this thread doing everything they can to make excuses for Starmer and look the other way.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Feel free to quote them. All the evidence so far (including the original police investigation) says this is a poor attempt to distract and that he’s done nothing wrong. He and the people in this thread say if that’s not the case he needs to go.
Feels like you’ve got a narrative you want to be there regardless of evidence TBH.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
You pretty much qualified yourself there with that post.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Your last paragraph is accurate. So first of all you need to acknowledge the rules to understand the difference. When the Downing Street parties happened we were in full lockdown, the rules were very simplistic, no gatherings of any kind. Especially not a birthday party where Carries friend is present who doesn’t work for the government or in Downing Street. When beergate happened we were in the tier system, tier 2 to be exact and as far as I can tell indoor gatherings were allowed, I mean the pubs were open for instance. The equivalence is a false equivalence.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Eh? You even liked my post that said if he was issued with a fine he should quit, and great that there's an investigation as if and when it cleared him it'd show Johnson up even more (if that was possible!) for being a self-centred bastard.
As Starmer has said he'd quit if he is issued with a fine, surely you too should be approving of his statement yesterday?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yes eating a curry and drinking a beer in a tiered system is the same as organising a piss up and sending out staff to put beer into briefcases while in full lockdown.
Of course it is.
Of course it is.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
You aren't one of the people I'm referring to.
It is so clear to see where people sit politically and when it comes to this issue it shouldn't matter. The same people who crucified Johnson before he got found guilty are doing everything they can to go the other way with Starmer. The last few pages are full of it.
If he is cleared then that's absolutely fine, despite some strange comments I have no agenda other than to see any politician who thinks they are above the rules brought to justice, but this hits a really sore nerve for me. It's obviously quite dodgy and some people are behaving as hypocrites.
Johnson should be gone, no doubt about it in my mind. That's also annoyed me considerably. If it is Starmer as well then we're all fucked aren't we. I'm in amazement as to how these people behave.
I won’t speak on ESBs behalf but my view at the moment is Starmers event is being compared with the FBNs issued for the ‘birthday event’. If info released is correct Sunak got one for walking into a meeting early FFS….crazy as I’ve said before
Starmer and Rayner called for him to resign as well as Johnson. This is why I’ve mentioned low bar in the past
The other events still being investigated are a different level and if Johnson is issued with fines for any of them I personally think he should either resign or call a confidence vote…we all know which ones more likely with him !!!
Starmer has dug himself a bit of a hole here and I say that as someone who doesn’t thing he should resign on the back of a FPN if issued
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
But that's just it isn't it. Atm we're waiting for results of investigation, so it has to be innocent until guilty.
And he's given the statement I wanted him to make, clear and unequivocal. And yes it is bizarre watching some press and politicians now wanting to turn the very statement they were pushing him for against him.
Yeah, fair point and I personally don’t think he’ll be issued with one…could be a toss up though
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I have more sympathy with Sunak in this instance. Johnson's is of course accentuated by what we know if Sue Gray's report too... and that's the expurgated version. A cynic would suggest Sunak's fine is because of what others who were there said...
To be clear, I equally wasn't really worried about the socially distanced eating in garden event either. It's clear however that the culture is flagrant in Downing Street, it's clear even if fined Starmer's is not at that level but... It's still breaking the rules if fined, and for the sake of trust in those who make the rules, Starmer has to go if fined. He's said he will, which puts him ahead of the PM already - it's a no lose now for Labour as a whole you'd think - they can compare actions favourably whatever those actions end up being.
No lose in short term and morally of course. However we both know politics is a bit more complex than that. If they did get fined, him and rayner gone…depends who replaces them….return of the Corbo…you might have to retract that comment
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The point is Johnson is being told to resign because his rule breaking is on another scale entirely. Oh, and because he set the rules himself.
Starmer’s ‘crime’ isn’t one. And I’m hardly a fan of his, this is just a feeble attempt to drag Starmer into Johnson’s mess
Politics innit
Northants Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Daily Mail - "The silence is deafening" "Starmer must quit if fined" "The police must act"
Starmer - makes public statement "I'll quit if fined"
Daily Mail - "Teah...well then...Erm....HE'S PRESSURISING THE POLICE"
Starmer - makes public statement "I'll quit if fined"
Daily Mail - "Teah...well then...Erm....HE'S PRESSURISING THE POLICE"
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I agree. I think starmer has pulled a blinder here though. I don’t think they did break the rules but he’s trumped Boris and the press by promising to resign if he receives a penalty. Not seen anyone claim otherwise but I may have missed stuff
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Why did Starmer say Cummings was guilty when he now admits he didn’t break any rules at Barnard Castle?
I've no doubt I'm one of the people you're referring to.
I don't know how you can say people are being hypocrites when a) Starmer has already been found to have done nothing wrong and b) everyone has said if he receives a FPN he should resign
The only hypocrites are the right wing press who were telling us to move on from partygate to more pressing matters, but now make this front page news. Who said Starmer needs to make a statement, then said making a statement puts pressure on the police. And so on.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Not seen the follow up on that. How did he not break any rules?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Oh you walked into that one
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Better ask Sir Beer as that’s what he said at the press conference?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Wasn’t it the police that said it when they took no action?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
That’s not an answer though is it
How dare Sir Beer put pressure on the police by, er... Erm. How dare he!
Wouldn't catch whiter than white Tories carrying out such behaviour would you?
news.sky.com
Wouldn't catch whiter than white Tories carrying out such behaviour would you?
Five Tory MPs breached code of conduct by trying to influence judge in Charlie Elphicke sex assault trial, committee rules
Charlie Elphicke was suspended from the Conservatives in 2017 after he was accused of sexual offences against two members of staff, and later sentenced to two years in prison.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
He also lied to parliament about it. It’s a long charge sheet vs might have broken the rules but the more details that come out seem less and less likely that he did.
Just to clarify if it turns out he did then he has to go regardless of what he said yesterday and that’s been my stance from the offset.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Also if Starmer is attempting to influence the investigation by confirming that he would resign if found guilty we need to stack that up against the statement that Boris made in parliament saying no rules had been broken, when in fact they had, which he clearly knew at the time given his own involvement in the parties.How dare Sir Beer put pressure on the police by, er... Erm. How dare he!
Wouldn't catch whiter than white Tories carrying out such behaviour would you?
Five Tory MPs breached code of conduct by trying to influence judge in Charlie Elphicke sex assault trial, committee rules
Charlie Elphicke was suspended from the Conservatives in 2017 after he was accused of sexual offences against two members of staff, and later sentenced to two years in prison.