Do you want to discuss boring politics? (84 Viewers)

[PVA]

Ps if ‘own it’, ‘live with it’ ‘it’s your fault’ is Labour/lefts attitude in the red wall seats at the next election, they can forget. There should be attempting to understand why people voted Tory, many for the first time and address their concerns to win them back.

There is no Brexit or anti Corbyn vote this time round. They are the only reasons people voted Tory for the first time.

Without those two reasons, expect the majority of the red wall to become red again.

 

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[CCFCSteve]

'Own it' means accept that voting for the criminal clown was a mistake. Johnson I feel confident in calling the worst PM since 1945, and his track record across his life told you he would turn out pretty much as he has done. At this moment in time I'm not a Labour voter either and my vote went elsewhere last time I had the choice. It likely still will in 2024. I just think if you vote for a criminal PM on the basis of a 3 word slogan you sort of lose the right to complain afterwards.

On the PS, there is no reasoning with people who blame Labour for the central government ignoring their towns/cities/regions and cutting everything in sight. Nor is there any reasoning with people in former industrial towns voting for the party that tossed it all in the bin a few decades prior. You said it yourself-it's a reflection of society. People don't care about policies, technicalities or the nitty gritty, just what is slapped on the front of the product once every 5 years-then they genuinely wonder why the elected officials are as they are.

You'd be right to tell me I should be less cynical-but a hell of a lot of people should be a hell of a lot more cynical too.

I like that you’re principled with your voting BSB but come the next election if you voted elsewhere rather than Labour in a seat where only Labour or Conservatives can realistically win (I don’t know if this is the case for you), then you’d be almost as culpable as someone who voted Tory if they end up winning.

I disagree about the red wall seats. As I said before, many voted Tory for the first time ever for two reasons, Corbyn and Brexit. Starmer might have some challenges with regard to Brexit (strange as it should be Johnson who struggles due to some of the mistakes he’s made) but ultimately they should be relatively easy to win back with the right polices, messaging and leader.

Agree that some might just like a snappy slogan and ‘fun Boris’ but think they’ll be a minority at the next election…if he’s even still around, which I question.

 

[CCFCSteve]

There is no Brexit or anti Corbyn vote this time round. They are the only reasons people voted Tory for the first time.

Without those two reasons, expect the majority of the red wall to become red again.

Beat me to it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I like that you’re principled with your voting BSB but come the next election if you voted elsewhere rather than Labour in a seat where only Labour or Conservatives can realistically win (I don’t know if this is the case for you), then you’d be almost as culpable as someone who voted Tory if they end up winning.

I disagree about the red wall seats. As I said before, many voted Tory for the first time ever for two reasons, Corbyn and Brexit. Starmer might have some challenges with regard to Brexit (strange as it should be Johnson who struggles due to some of the mistakes he’s made) but ultimately they should be relatively easy to win back with the right polices, messaging and leader.

Agree that some might just like a snappy slogan and ‘fun Boris’ but think they’ll be a minority at the next election…if he’s even still around, which I question.

I suspect the Greens will have a genuine shot in L+W. And I do have a number of grievances not just with Sir Smarmer but the local party and sitting MP. We will see just how many of those seats flip back, I think the culture war nonsense may actually have permanently turned some heads.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I suspect the Greens will have a genuine shot in L+W. And I do have a number of grievances not just with Sir Smarmer but the local party and sitting MP. We will see just how many of those seats flip back, I think the culture war nonsense may actually have permanently turned some heads.

Talking of culture wars. Gervais clip (if people are easily offended - avoid)

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The majority of the country was given a choice though, Johnson or Corbyn, not ideal for most.

Problem of our electoral system that though, so the smaller parties have no hope of getting votes from most.

 

[skybluetony176]

'Own it' means accept that voting for the criminal clown was a mistake. Johnson I feel confident in calling the worst PM since 1945, and his track record across his life told you he would turn out pretty much as he has done. At this moment in time I'm not a Labour voter either and my vote went elsewhere last time I had the choice. It likely still will in 2024. I just think if you vote for a criminal PM on the basis of a 3 word slogan you sort of lose the right to complain afterwards.

On the PS, there is no reasoning with people who blame Labour for the central government ignoring their towns/cities/regions and cutting everything in sight. Nor is there any reasoning with people in former industrial towns voting for the party that tossed it all in the bin a few decades prior. You said it yourself-it's a reflection of society. People don't care about policies, technicalities or the nitty gritty, just what is slapped on the front of the product once every 5 years-then they genuinely wonder why the elected officials are as they are.

You'd be right to tell me I should be less cynical-but a hell of a lot of people should be a hell of a lot more cynical too.

Surely no one can be surprised that the lying sack of shit that is and always has been Boris Johnson turned out to be the lying sack of shit that is still Boris Johnson. Both Boris Johnson’s personal and professional life have always been a car crash he’s repeatedly walked away from leaving casualties. I’m amazed that Tory MP’s can’t wise up to the fact that this is just what he does, it’s his nature. The idea that he can say sorry, we’ll move on and it won’t happen again which seems to be the excuse to carry on with him is beyond stupid. Worse is to come from him, there always is. It’s suicidal to limp along with him from a Tory perspective and I think Steve nailed it. If there’s a better option he’d be gone already. You can just see the final 2 Fabricant vs Dorries.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I’m amazed that Tory MP’s can’t wise up to the fact that this is just what he does, it’s his nature.

They know that, that's why he never ended up close to being leader before. Brexit offered an opportunity, and he took it. Now it's a mix of people like Dorries, who knows full well whoever takes over will sack her, so she may as well blindly defend Johnson as it's the only thing that keeps her in a job, and people who think his 'charisma' will come good in winning an election.

 

[skybluetony176]

There is no Brexit or anti Corbyn vote this time round. They are the only reasons people voted Tory for the first time.

Without those two reasons, expect the majority of the red wall to become red again.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the Tories that are losing traditional seats. London going Labour and rural areas going Lib/Dem. The farmers are waking up to the Tories and Brexit so I think Brexit will be a factor in some communities as the communities who were promised the most from Brexit have lost the most. Farming and fishing were supposed to be the litmus test for Brexit and both industries have well and truly been screwed over.

 

[skybluetony176]

They know that, that's why he never ended up close to being leader before. Brexit offered an opportunity, and he took it. Now it's a mix of people like Dorries, who knows full well whoever takes over will sack her, so she may as well blindly defend Johnson as it's the only thing that keeps her in a job, and people who think his 'charisma' will come good in winning an election.

I don’t think his “charisma” carries much stock anymore. Which again is why Tory MP’s are beyond moronic if they believe it does.

 

[Northants Sky Blue]

Growing sense that a VONC is inevitable, possibly after the by-elections.

He'll obviously win that but anything above 90-100 tory rebels & he's effectively toast.

 

[clint van damme]

They know that, that's why he never ended up close to being leader before. Brexit offered an opportunity, and he took it. Now it's a mix of people like Dorries, who knows full well whoever takes over will sack her, so she may as well blindly defend Johnson as it's the only thing that keeps her in a job, and people who think his 'charisma' will come good in winning an election.

I think your crediting Dorries with more awareness of her own ability than she actually possesses. .

 

[PVA]

I think your crediting Dorries with more awareness of her own ability than she actually possesses. .

If she wants to keep her job she just needs to downstream her Curriculum Vitamin from her lapdog and show it to whoever the new PM is and he/she will surely be impressed enough to keep her on

 

[Philosoraptor]

Another one.

 

[Ian1779]

There is no Brexit or anti Corbyn vote this time round. They are the only reasons people voted Tory for the first time.

Without those two reasons, expect the majority of the red wall to become red again.

If you think that Labour will win because Starmer is ‘not Corbyn’ you are going to be very disappointed.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

#partyofthepeople

The ofthe shouldn't be there.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Problem of our electoral system that though, so the smaller parties have no hope of getting votes from most.

As I've said before, need to elect the upper house on PR so there is a genuine ability for the corridors of power to reflect the vote of the public. Not perfect, because there would still be tactical voting in certain seats (as it stands I would tactically vote Labour just to improve chances of getting rid of the Tories, even if I felt another party/candidate was better)

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Yeah, I’ve always thought the best option for the government would be to pressure the main energy companies like BP and Shell to stop making super profits. Tricky to do this across the board but say BP are currently making 20p per litre on diesel when it’s usually 10p, pressure them to get it back down to nearer 10p. That then puts pressure on other petrol companies to follow suit, all of which helps suppress inflation across the board

There must be something I’m missing here. Maybe they like higher petrol/diesel prices as people reduce unnecessary journeys ? Maybe the Tories enjoy being the tax and spend party

As I said earlier, at least it appears that the help is going to the right people

You're not the only one who thinks they're missing something.

Firstly, if so many of these small suppliers are going bust, it totally destroys this idea that privatising and adding competition reduces prices (in fact given things like adminstratiive, bureaucratic, legal, financial and executive functions are repeated for each company it actually increases costs, without even mentioning the need to provide a return for shareholders)

But the other is that we've had energy companies complain about the situation an the government needs to do more. Now, while domestic energy supply isn't their only income, they could look at themselves. They're not being forced to rise their prices to the cap, they choose to. If they're making such huge profits overall, they could choose to subsidise to some extent domestic customers from those other activities, rather than just wake it straight to the shareholders. When the wholesale price goes up, the match it immediately. When it goes down they don't match that. Last price rises the standing charge increased by well-over half, while the price for the actual gas went up by even more. Why did the standing charge have to go up so much if the issue was the gas prices? It's totally disingenuous and trying to make themselves look innocent when they've got their hands wrist deep in the cookie jar.

 

[skybluetony176]

This isn’t going away anytime soon

 

[skybluetony176]

This isn’t going away anytime soon

They seem keen to keep Carrie out of it. Maybe we misunderstood what operation save big dog was about.

 

[RegTheDonk]

I agree with this, and yet you and many others voted for this man. Own it.

Bit unfair that mate. People make choices on the circumstances at the time. It's like blaming someone for getting divorced.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Bit unfair that mate. People make choices on the circumstances at the time. It's like blaming someone for getting divorced.

Not quite.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well that is unless you marry someone who’s known all round as a liar and a cheat then goes on to be unfaithful…

 

[Ian1779]

Bit unfair that mate. People make choices on the circumstances at the time. It's like blaming someone for getting divorced.

What would you say to an ex-pat (immigrant) that voted for Brexit and now finds themselves turfed out? I think ‘own it’ is very apt here too.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Well that is unless you marry someone who’s known all round as a liar and a cheat then goes on to be unfaithful…

What happens if she was decent in bed though and made you feel good about yourself.. and your only other choice was an arranged marriage with a crusty old bird that just moaned all the time ?


*just to be clear these are 100% analogies and I haven’t slept with Johnson or Corbyn

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What happens if she was decent in bed though and made you feel good about yourself.. and your only other choice was an arranged marriage with a crusty old bird that just moaned all the time ?


*just to be clear these are 100% analogies and I haven’t slept with Johnson or Corbyn

You also have the choice of neither…

 

[clint van damme]

*just to be clear these are 100% analogies and I haven’t slept with Johnson or Corbyn

So you say

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What happens if she was decent in bed though and made you feel good about yourself.. and your only other choice was an arranged marriage with a crusty old bird that just moaned all the time ?


*just to be clear these are 100% analogies and I haven’t slept with Johnson or Corbyn

I see you left Starmer off that list...

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

They seem keen to keep Carrie out of it. Maybe we misunderstood what operation save big dog was about.

Isn't that for Dilyn? Though to be fair he is less likely to hump someone's leg and shit on his own doorstep so a definite upgrade on the current incumbent.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Bit unfair that mate. People make choices on the circumstances at the time. It's like blaming someone for getting divorced.

Well, it is if the person getting divorced is doing so from someone who had a long history of being an unreliable, unfaithful narcissist gold-digger and was repeatedly warned off them by everyone that knew them.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I see you left Starmer off that list...

Probably preferable to the other two (if you’re that way inclined)...obviously a bit dull but bet he was a bit of a ladies man in his hayday

But no, not him either

 

[Grendel]

Well, it is if the person getting divorced is doing so from someone who had a long history of being an unreliable, unfaithful narcissist gold-digger and was repeatedly warned off them by everyone that knew them.

The people who voted Johnson who never voted Tory before at the last election did it for one reason and he delivered it

 

[CCFCSteve]

You also have the choice of neither…

But I was lonely

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The people who voted Johnson who never voted Tory before at the last election did it for one reason and he delivered it

What, you mean the thing he says is shit and is going to renege on?

Though I suppose we have got all those massively increased prices he promised would happen after Brexit. Oh, no, wait. That was the other side.

 

[stupot07]

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