Wasps downward spiral... (34 Viewers)

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Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Imagine the west Midlands authority bailing out a failing business ??

They wouldn't normally would they

Let them fucking die already
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Harry H said:
To be fair, even if they annoyingly got it, it would surely be tied to development
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Even if it is for work on the stadium, and not paying off debt, why should public money be used? This wouldn't be an option for any other business.

The whole thing about them getting millions to put a new frontage on never sat well with me, surely they won't get more money thrown at them.
 
Liquid Gold

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Harry H said:
To be fair, even if they annoyingly got it, it would surely be tied to development You'd think it would be hard to offset existing costs against any grant. Certainly not playing budgets etc, At the very best I can only see it kicking the can down the road for a couple of seasons at best. Not sure how it leaves them re: bondholders (my limited knowledge!)
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You're right that it will only kick the can down the road but that is what would make even more unconscionable for the council to spend taxpayers money on it.
 
samccov1987

samccov1987

Well-Known Member
Can’t say I’m too clued up but the WMCA surely cant fund the wasps rugby business so then the money would have to be spent on the stadium?

Is the stadium in such disrepair that they couldn’t secure lending against the leasehold to pay back the bond?

Any lending towards the stadium also only helps out in enabling them to refinance but longer term the financial issues don’t go away.
 
Sky Blue Harry H

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Even if it is for work on the stadium, and not paying off debt, why should public money be used? This wouldn't be an option for any other business.

The whole thing about them getting millions to put a new frontage on never sat well with me, surely they won't get more money thrown at them.
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I agree - although where do CCFC stand in terms of rent? If there are building costs (assuming Wasps don't get this grant). are we liable to pay more rent, contribute to costs? Don't know the answer - just curious. Of course, I'd love them to wither on the vine - and suspicious of Cov City Council wanting to die on the hill with them.
 
Liquid Gold

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
The bondholders are constantly talking about the value of the stadium being able to pay back the bonds if it comes to it.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that just the paper value? It is highly unlikely anybody would pay £35m for it on the open market, last time it sold it was in a considerably better state and only fetched £6m.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
samccov1987 said:
Is the stadium in such disrepair that they couldn’t secure lending against the leasehold to pay back the bond?
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This thought crossed my mind before todays news. Was there an agreement to lend the money but then when due diligence, and a valuation on the ground, was done issues have come to light. They're trying to borrow right to the limit of the stadium previous valuation, if there's significant work required that would enter the equation when looking at security.
Liquid Gold said:
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that just the paper value? It is highly unlikely anybody would pay £35m for it on the open market, last time it sold it was in a considerably better state and only fetched £6m.
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Exactly this. If the stadium is valued at £35m but needs £20m in repairs then best case scenario someone is paying £15m and the bondholders are screwed. But of course to get that value it needs someone prepared to offer that amount and that is far from guaranteed.
 
Sky Blue Harry H

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
Popped onto the Wasps forum a little while ago - and zilch. Probably somebody (the usual two) may have posted by now. Will have a look!
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
Not just them, but every sports team in the area will spend cash, then demand a loan.
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Can't remember the exact quote, or even who was the council leader at the time and said it, but I can distinctly remember the council saying they wouldn't consider helping CCFC while they were losing millions every year, something about needing to get their own house in order first.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
To state the obvious, £13mil is quite a lot to have lost. With not much chance of seeing that money again, it'd be a non-starter anyway... and I assume they're having to try this, as 'normal' moneylenders wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
chiefdave said:
Can't remember the exact quote, or even who was the council leader at the time and said it, but I can distinctly remember the council saying they wouldn't consider helping CCFC while they were losing millions every year, something about needing to get their own house in order first.
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It was John Mutton.

tbf, it's a different authority. I'd have assumed it makes it less likely, in actual fact, to get a loan from them, as there are more sports clubs who'd then like one!

Wonder if Birmingham City need £20mil to repair St Andrews...?
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
Wonder if Birmingham City need £20mil to repair St Andrews...?
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This is a good point. St Andrews is fucked and they are broke, if Wasps get given money you can be certain they will want a hand out as well. Isn't there a plan for some fairly major works at Villa as well? Sure they wouldn't mind the taxpayer picking up the bill.
 
D

Dubai-Dodger

Member
ovduk78 said:
No opinion from our dodgy dubai friend yet?
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Dodgy ? ..... Never :)

Some will be shocked to know that this concerns me as much as most of you..... not good reading whatever side of the fence you sit on.

Borrowing money / getting free money (whatever it turns out to be) is concerning especially given the current financial climate but it would be interesting to know what exactly its for and what WMCA can loan / give money for it must be a fairly tight criteria ?

Of course lots of speculation but either way concerning !
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
Just can't see this being labelled as a straight bail-out. Going to be some new project that is overvalued. Building social housing on one of the car parks ;)
 
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duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
I've just had a good look around the WMCA website and read one of their investment reports.

The lending they do looks like infrastructure, housing, green projects, brownfield development, etc. etc.

On the face of it, it looks well governed, very low risk, and turns a profit. I can't see them loaning just to keep Wasps afloat, and they don't loan without security.

It has to be related to the stadium, I'd think, maybe so that Wasps can get refinancing over the line.

To me though, especially given how late in the day it is on the bonds, it looks like a real 'Hail Mary'. If private investors won't touch it, I'd be surprised if Wasps can convince the WMCA to invest. You never know though....
 
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