Transfer Shouts (44 Viewers)

[robbiekeane]

Just sensible investment into young players with potential and resell value that we can then buy other players with.

That's literally what we're doing and everyone is getting aggy when the second part happens

 

---

[robbiekeane]

In theory with enough financial discipline you could pay ahead though.

Numbers from my ass:

Let’s say we’re at max right now. Sell Hamer for say £8m, free up his wages, plus £8m. Let’s say he’s on £15k. Take £10k for his replacement, £5k to keep Vik happy, then take £1.5m from the fee to cover a £10k player for the next three years, leaving is £6.5m for fees/handbags.

If we don’t sell another player ever, that £1.5m runs out and the player leaves. Club is no worse off.

this

 

[GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee]

Because they run outdated models based on the manager picking up players he’s heard of instead of having data analysts highlight targets that are outside of normal targets.

Exactly the same as Liverpool being smart and highlighting Robertson to get from Hull relatively cheaply and United being idiots and waiting for Leicester to have a go on Maguire and over inflate his market before getting him.

If you want to look at a championship example then Brentford were able to develop players they picked up undervalued and sell for larger fees to invest in more undervalued players.

Next time you ask a stupid question try not to be such a snarky twat.

I mean you have given two examples, one of which has definitely worked (Brentford), and one who are super spenders and you have pulled out one of their signings which proved to be great value. Brentford are the exception not the rule. Robertson is the exception, not the rule. Brentford have done it masterfully, but it requires huge risks still and a lot of those risks won't pay off. See Kastaneer, Dacosta, the list would be endless across all EFL clubs. I can't work out if you genuinely think other clubs don't try and do this? Assuming we can just pick up four players of Hamer's quality for the price of selling Hamer is unbelievably naive. As for snarky. 'Stupid question'. Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[lordy_87]

That's literally what we're doing and everyone is getting aggy when the second part happens

We have been told by a very reliable ITK that transfer fees won't be given to Robins and he will just get his wages to reinvest

 

[Saddlebrains]

Pretty sure he also said after that wasn't what he meant wasn't it?

 

[SkyblueDad]

It does take time though to build a “Brentford” example keeping Hamer, O’Hare and Gyokeres has to be part of that build, finished just outside the top six last season so our next step has to be the play offs. atleast Yes we could sell Hamer and invest his wage and some of his fee as you say in three or four newbies but their wage is times four don’t know what a minimum wage is in the championship but I suspect it’s a lot more than 25% of Hamers and no guarantee they come off as your DaCosta and Kasteneer examples say.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It does take time though to build a “Brentford” example keeping Hamer, O’Hare and Gyokeres has to be part of that build, finished just outside the top six last season so our next step has to be the play offs. atleast Yes we could sell Hamer and invest his wage and some of his fee as you say in three or four newbies but their wage is times four don’t know what a minimum wage is in the championship but I suspect it’s a lot more than 25% of Hamers and no guarantee they come off as your DaCosta and Kasteneer examples say.

Just outside, not really. Been in bottom 6 form for most of the season.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Just outside, not really. Been in bottom 6 form for most of the season.

Confusing statement

 

[PUSB-We_are_going_up]

Just outside, not really. Been in bottom 6 form for most of the season.

Yet we finished mid table still

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

We have been told by a very reliable ITK that transfer fees won't be given to Robins and he will just get his wages to reinvest

That makes no sense at all. He will have a budget. It will be up to him how he uses it. It may be his decision to use the budget on freebies and loans, and the wages that they incur, yet I can think of no rational budget plan that says none can be used to purchase a player, That is nonsensical, and for a ITK to be saying that would be pretty much MR repeating that he has been told by Joy that no purchases can be made (which I don't believe for a second - what would be the point in that now, when we'd been selling/buying in L1/2., why would he be signing up to anything now when his stock is so high, if he'd been told that? Don't believe it.

 

[CDK]

Has JCS signed for QPR yet?

 

[SkyblueDad]

Just outside, not really. Been in bottom 6 form for most of the season.

Rubbish reply: we were in a mathematical shout of top six until the Huddersfield match, long shot admittedly, my opinion had Matty Godden not had appendicitis and missed 9 games just as he was back at his best we would have won more points and your bottom six form for most of the season is bollox to be frank, but suppose you will now be squirrelling away to back it up.

 

[David O'Day]

Confusing statement

Look who made it

 

[David O'Day]

That makes no sense at all. He will have a budget. It will be up to him how he uses it. It may be his decision to use the budget on freebies and loans, and the wages that they incur, yet I can think of no rational budget plan that says none can be used to purchase a player, That is nonsensical, and for a ITK to be saying that would be pretty much MR repeating that he has been told by Joy that no purchases can be made (which I don't believe for a second - what would be the point in that now, when we'd been selling/buying in L1/2., why would he be signing up to anything now when his stock is so high, if he'd been told that? Don't believe it.

Also oe of the "ITK's" said it was currently mostly guess work on their behalf anyway

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Rubbish reply: we were in a mathematical shout of top six until the Huddersfield match, long shot admittedly, my opinion had Matty Godden not had appendicitis and missed 9 games just as he was back at his best we would have won more points and your bottom six form for most of the season is bollox to be frank, but suppose you will now be squirrelling away to back it up.

Look at the results from matches 13-46 and get back to me.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Because they run outdated models based on the manager picking up players he’s heard of instead of having data analysts highlight targets that are outside of normal targets.

Exactly the same as Liverpool being smart and highlighting Robertson to get from Hull relatively cheaply and United being idiots and waiting for Leicester to have a go on Maguire and over inflate his market before getting him.

If you want to look at a championship example then Brentford were able to develop players they picked up undervalued and sell for larger fees to invest in more undervalued players.

Next time you ask a stupid question try not to be such a snarky twat.

It's buying attributes not performance / outcome data. Most people on here write off signings based on e.g. a past scoring record which is backward thinking. Gyokeres is a prime example.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yet we finished mid table still

Yep. We were on two points a game for the first 13!

 

[PUSB-We_are_going_up]

Yep. We were on two points a game for the first 13!

Yes promotion form, form is temporary, we werent relegation form though over the rest of the season, we still played really well most of the time a couple of blips but thats the reason we are where we are because we are in no way the complete package yet

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Look at the results from matches 13-46 and get back to me.

Lucky a season runs from game 1-46… could say the same about Forest - look at the results of their first 10 games

 

[procdoc]

So many drama queens on here

 

[steve cooper]

Fulham only managed 13 points from the last 10 games, 3 points more than us over the same games, and then only courtesy of a final day 7-0 win against a Luton team already qualified for the playoffs, and on the beach.

 

[shmmeee]

Ideal world here, there’s likely £60k+ of wages to be freed up if we can move out: Kane, Dacosta, Kelly, Walker, Waghorn as well as savings from Maatsen and JCS. Jones, Pask, Shipley already gone as well another £5k+ You’d imagine from last season.

That’s maybe 6/7 decent signings, or 4/5 and two loans.

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

It's buying attributes not performance / outcome data. Most people on here write off signings based on e.g. a past scoring record which is backward thinking. Gyokeres is a prime example.

Gyokeres we had a chance to have a look at his potential before we bought him.His record was 1 goal in every 3 games quite good for a young striker.My thoughts are you look at the player decide if he has the ablilty and could do a job in your side but you also have to look at past performances .

 

[Saddlebrains]

Ideal world here, there’s likely £60k+ of wages to be freed up if we can move out: Kane, Dacosta, Kelly, Walker, Waghorn as well as savings from Maatsen and JCS. Jones, Pask, Shipley already gone as well another £5k+ You’d imagine from last season.

That’s maybe 6/7 decent signings, or 4/5 and two loans.

Makes sense

Say its stays as it is, and Vik or Hamer dont move until jan/next year

If we can offload Dacosta (Looking likely)
Waghorn - Can see Sunderland wanting him and he would go like a shot
Walker - Again can see a Wigan/Rotherham type interested in him
Kane - Again a lower champ team

Than that's a decent amount of wage saved, even on 50% if we loan them out

We only need

1ST
2CB
1LWB
Now Palmers allegedly done. Youd think, especially with the loan market, thats doable without flogging any of the fab 3?

The annoying thing being, we need that lot offloaded beforehand, that seems to be the killer

Can't see Kelly going TBH

 

[long way home]

MR will have to wheel and deal whichever way we look at it. The question is can he get a couple in before he has to work on a 1 out 1 in basis. I don't think Shipley, Pask, Drysdale or Jones were in top money but combined could be as much as 10 grand a week. We collected fees for 2 of them which is anyone guess to what the combined figure was, may of covered cost of new training pitches.

Everybody knows we need to move a few more on and that is going to be the difficult part as it will effect the squad if it cant be done. The club must be working overtime to get these players out the door and the quicker they can get them out the better and easier MR will have it. MR must of accepted the outcome of his meeting and would of got a figure without any movement as well as an agreement of any future sales.

If we get 2 in and then have to wheel and deal it may be the best we can hope for. Selling any of the big 3 and having no ability to replace is suicide, and the club know it and i dont think MR would of stayed if that was the indication. In fact im sure he would of walked, he wouldn't be out of work for long that's for sure. And even though since his return he has worked under restrictions this time i would of thought he will be pushing more to get backing. He has got the club in the strongest position its been in for years, decades the owners understand it and will want to keep that going and upsetting MR is not the way to getting that done.

 

[shmmeee]

Makes sense

Say its stays as it is, and Vik or Hamer dont move until jan/next year

If we can offload Dacosta (Looking likely)
Waghorn - Can see Sunderland wanting him and he would go like a shot
Walker - Again can see a Wigan/Rotherham type interested in him
Kane - Again a lower champ team

Than that's a decent amount of wage saved, even on 50% if we loan them out

We only need

1ST
2CB
1LWB
Now Palmers allegedly done. Youd think, especially with the loan market, thats doable without flogging any of the fab 3?

The annoying thing being, we need that lot offloaded beforehand, that seems to be the killer

Can't see Kelly going TBH

I can’t see a few of them going, but they’re the big earning fringe players.

It all tallies up: We’ve been linked with 4 positions (CB, LWB, AM, ST) , but one of them is apparently only if we can shift Waghorn and Walker and is a loan. Suggests Palmer has been paid for by those already gone, then maybe a loan and one more left in the pot from the savings from JCS and Maatsen going back.

I’ve got a feeling well only see one CB until next year when Fadz and Rose go then we’ll see more drastic surgery there.

 

[better days]

MR will have to wheel and deal whichever way we look at it. The question is can he get a couple in before he has to work on a 1 out 1 in basis. I don't think Shipley, Pask, Drysdale or Jones were in top money but combined could be as much as 10 grand a week. We collected fees for 2 of them which is anyone guess to what the combined figure was, may of covered cost of new training pitches.

Everybody knows we need to move a few more on and that is going to be the difficult part as it will effect the squad if it cant be done. The club must be working overtime to get these players out the door and the quicker they can get them out the better and easier MR will have it. MR must of accepted the outcome of his meeting and would of got a figure without any movement as well as an agreement of any future sales.

If we get 2 in and then have to wheel and deal it may be the best we can hope for. Selling any of the big 3 and having no ability to replace is suicide, and the club know it and i dont think MR would of stayed if that was the indication. In fact im sure he would of walked, he wouldn't be out of work for long that's for sure. And even though since his return he has worked under restrictions this time i would of thought he will be pushing more to get backing. He has got the club in the strongest position its been in for years, decades the owners understand it and will want to keep that going and upsetting MR is not the way to getting that done.

The combined cost of the 4 you mention was well below your estimate
Only two of them were involved in match day squads last year plus Pask and Drysdale would have had at least part of their wages paid by their loan clubs
The thing that hasn't been mentioned enough is the change to 5 subs with 9 on the bench
If the manager wants to offload Waghorn, Walker and Kane it's not going to be easy for us to drum up 9 bodies
Perhaps we'll have loads of kids on the bench who have no hope of getting on
Or maybe just have 6 or 7 subs to save on bonuses when we win or draw?
Robins uses his subs late and cautiously anyway so perhaps it won't change much in our case?

 

[shmmeee]

The combined cost of the 4 you mention was well below your estimate
Only two of them were involved in match day squads last year plus Pask and Drysdale would have had at least part of their wages paid by their loan clubs
The thing that hasn't been mentioned enough is the change to 5 subs with 9 on the bench
If the manager wants to offload Waghorn, Walker and Kane it's not going to be easy for us to drum up 9 bodies
Perhaps we'll have loads of kids on the bench who have no hope of getting on
Or maybe just have 6 or 7 subs to save on bonuses when we win or draw?
Robins uses his subs late and cautiously anyway so perhaps it won't change much in our case?

Its 5 from 7 not 9 next season: EFL confirm five subs rule change and bring in historic kit clash arrangement

Someone corrected me on this the other day.

 

[Samo]

I think there are way to many assumptions being made here. None of us, even those ITK, were at the meetings MR has had with the owners. The club, Boddy and MR have told us consistently that they want incremental progression. If, at the end of the window, that has not been achieved, regardless of who leaves, that will be the time to call out the bullshit.
I would hope that Joy will want to do enough to at least keep MR happy.

 

[Tea & Busquets]

Kenneth Paal is close to signing for QPR for anyone (including me) that's suggested him to be our LB replacement.

 

[PUSB-We_are_going_up]

Kenneth Paal is close to signing for QPR for anyone (including me) that's suggested him to be our LB replacement.

Is their scouting team just reading our forums? Next we will be seeing them loan Plange and Adaramola

 

[CovLad94]

Kenneth Paal is close to signing for QPR for anyone (including me) that's suggested him to be our LB replacement.

They were linked with George Cox too at one stage, another possible option for us at LWB

 

[Tea & Busquets]

They were linked with George Cox too at one stage, another possible option for us at LWB

George Cox is actually my number 1 pick for LB and has been for a while. Seems perfect for us, Englishman from the Eredivise. If we sell Gyok I’d like us to reinvest some of the money in Zian Flemming and Cox both from Fortuna Sittard.

 

[CovLad94]

I think QPR were linked with Alex Cochrane aswell as us, if they get Paal then surely we'll pick up Cochrane unless he wants to go back to Hearts

 

[PVA]

My key takeaway from this thread is that if you take away our good results then our position in the table would have been lower.

Who knew!