Do you want to discuss boring politics? (92 Viewers)

[Liquid Gold]

He's in charge of an extremely right wing Government regardless of his personal opinions.

And the most right wing of those policies - shipping asylum seekers to Uganda, allowing police free rein to rape etc. Starmer hasn't opposed so there is no indication the trajectory will change with a Labour government.

On policies they are awful. On personalities there is little difference, they have both said whatever they think people want to hear to progress their career.

Fuck them both.

 

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[Liquid Gold]

Anyway, I need to travel on Saturday and the line I'd be going on is partially open.

Should I take the train or is that breaking the line or should I get the bus even though it takes twice as long and is a pain in the ass?

I'd rather get the train but support the strike so I don't know the etiquette as I wasn't around in the 70s and was promised it would be the evil vegan jam maker that would take us back there.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Anyway, I need to travel on Saturday and the line I'd be going on is partially open.

Should I take the train or is that breaking the line or should I get the bus even though it takes twice as long and is a pain in the ass?

I'd rather get the train but support the strike so I don't know the etiquette as I wasn't around in the 70s and was promised it would be the evil vegan jam maker that would take us back there.

The lines that are open aren’t being staffed by strike breakers as far as I can gather-just workers not part of the union

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Anyway, I need to travel on Saturday and the line I'd be going on is partially open.

Should I take the train or is that breaking the line or should I get the bus even though it takes twice as long and is a pain in the ass?

I'd rather get the train but support the strike so I don't know the etiquette as I wasn't around in the 70s and was promised it would be the evil vegan jam maker that would take us back there.

The strike is to inconvenience you so you taking a train or not won't affect the strike itself. Clearly they don't think you're important enough to inconvenience

Whether, of course, that train turns up or has space on it is another matter...

 

[clint van damme]

Replace with Boris and NI protocol/Brexit.

Seems like Starmer is being held to much higher standards than the actual PM. Or is that how you do it nowadays? Be charasmatic but untrustworthy and get a free ride?

Whose giving Johnson a free ride?
I slate the man. Can't stand him.
Its those who think not being Johnson is reason enough to vote for someone who are dishing out the free ride

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Its those who think not being Johnson is reason enough to vote for someone

tbf, it's a pretty good reason!

 

[Otis]

Look at all the comments on this from a Sky News segment-Smarmer could learn something.

He comes across very well there.

 

[Otis]

Replace with Boris and NI protocol/Brexit.

Seems like Starmer is being held to much higher standards than the actual PM. Or is that how you do it nowadays? Be charasmatic but untrustworthy and get a free ride?

I like him as a person. He seems pretty decent. He's ever so beige and wishy-washy though isn't he. Lacks some oomph and backbone I think.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He comes across very well there.

People forget this is the same entity that was ignored by P+O for their mass lay offs despite being the recognised union. Did Grant Shapps hound the company in the same way he is hounding 40,000 workers here?

The real fear is that other workforces see what can be done by collective action and decide to stop being walked over. That’s why it’s so crucial to the government that this strike loses.

 

[Otis]

People forget this is the same entity that was ignored by P+O for their mass lay offs despite being the recognised union. Did Grant Shapps hound the company in the same way he is hounding 40,000 workers here?

The real fear is that other workforces see what can be done by collective action and decide to stop being walked over. That’s why it’s so crucial to the government that this strike loses.

Be interesting to see how it pans out. Summer of discontent maybe?

I can never get my head round the notion of the rich getting richer while the poor get poorer.

I thought this was supposed to be the 21st century

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Be interesting to see how it pans out. Summer of discontent maybe?

I can never get my head round the notion of the rich getting richer while the poor get poorer.

I thought this was supposed to be the 21st century

More workplaces need unionising, not fewer. At a time when the government is clearly not on the side of working people, and when companies are more profit obsessed than before, all you’ve got left is to collectively demand better.

 

[Ian1779]

Replace with Boris and NI protocol/Brexit.

Seems like Starmer is being held to much higher standards than the actual PM. Or is that how you do it nowadays? Be charasmatic but untrustworthy and get a free ride?

He’s the leader of the Labour movement. It’s not that he’s held to higher standard, it’s that he’s expected to be at the minimum standard of being showing solidarity and support to workers in unions.

It’s literally the name on the tin.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I like him as a person. He seems pretty decent. He's ever so beige and wishy-washy though isn't he. Lacks some oomph and backbone I think.

Well his career's shown a certain backbone. Somewhere, Labour need to change their PR people. Milliband, Burnham et al all look so much better and electable when not either leader, or fighting to be leader. Brown had all his fire drilled out of him too.

They're trying to present Blair clones as what's electable (true, that Blair was electable) but in doing so they're taking out whatever makes each person unique and electable in their own way.

Significant that Corbyn ignored all them and came across as far more authentic.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well his career's shown a certain backbone. Somewhere, Labour need to change their PR people. Milliband, Burnham et al all look so much better and electable when not either leader, or fighting to be leader. Brown had all his fire drilled out of him too.

They're trying to present Blair clones as what's electable (true, that Blair was electable) but in doing so they're taking out whatever makes each person unique and electable in their own way.

Significant that Corbyn ignored all them and came across as far more authentic.

Corbyn got my vote in 2015 because he was the only one who said what he believed and I agreed with most of it. 4 years later he too became a husk trying to remember what the focus groups had told him.

 

[PVA]

I wish more people would call out Tory lies like this

 

[Grendel]

Zara the hedge fund protector has her power to the people hat on today

 

[shmmeee]

He’s the leader of the Labour movement. It’s not that he’s held to higher standard, it’s that he’s expected to be at the minimum standard of being showing solidarity and support to workers in unions.

It’s literally the name on the tin.

He’s the leader of the Labour Party, not the labour movement. His job is to get elected, this is a wedge issue that puts new Tory voters on one side and Labour members on the other. Like Rwanda, like trans rights.

My main disappointment personally if the refusal to explicitly say workers deserve higher pay, but I told you when Corbyn was still in power that the next leader was going to have to go a lot more right wing than most Labour supporters would like to undo the damage. That’s the real problem with Corbyns legacy: he supercharged all the public prejudices about Labour and that needs fixing.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He’s the leader of the Labour Party, not the labour movement. His job is to get elected, this is a wedge issue that puts new Tory voters on one side and Labour members on the other. Like Rwanda, like trans rights.

My main disappointment personally if the refusal to explicitly say workers deserve higher pay, but I told you when Corbyn was still in power that the next leader was going to have to go a lot more right wing than most Labour supporters would like to undo the damage. That’s the real problem with Corbyns legacy: he supercharged all the public prejudices about Labour and that needs fixing.

So maybe don’t make a pledge to stand by trade unions if your plan is actually to laugh at them or say nothing.

 

[Grendel]

Looks like a job vacancy soon

Labour MP defies Keir Starmer's 'no picket lines' order as rail strikes get underway

LABOUR leader Sir Keir Starmer has reportedly ordered frontbenchers not to join picket lines outside stations as the UK faces the biggest rail…

www.thenational.scot

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Looks like a job vacancy soon

Labour MP defies Keir Starmer's 'no picket lines' order as rail strikes get underway

LABOUR leader Sir Keir Starmer has reportedly ordered frontbenchers not to join picket lines outside stations as the UK faces the biggest rail…

www.thenational.scot

Mr Starmer only knows two responses-to laugh at it or to ignore it

 

[Grendel]

Mr Starmer only knows two responses-to laugh at it or to ignore it

it’s fairly obvious as this goes on more will ignore his directive and he will then look even more ridiculous

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Replace with Boris and NI protocol/Brexit.

Seems like Starmer is being held to much higher standards than the actual PM. Or is that how you do it nowadays? Be charasmatic but untrustworthy and get a free ride?

Again

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

it’s fairly obvious as this goes on more will ignore his directive and he will then look even more ridiculous

Well I mean booting out Labour MPs for openly supporting a union sounds about his level

 

[Grendel]

Again

Starmer sets standards and then has to apply then. 3 vacancies now

Labour Frontbenchers Defy Keir Starmer To Stand On Rail Picket Lines

The party leader had warned his top team they had to show "leadership" by not joining pro-strike demonstrations.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Many labour Supporters and mps want opposition rather than power.

 

[Grendel]

Many labour Supporters and mps want opposition rather than power.

Its someone telling to get power they seem to believe they have to imitate the Tory party isn’t it?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Starmer sets standards and then has to apply then. 3 vacancies now

Labour Frontbenchers Defy Keir Starmer To Stand On Rail Picket Lines

The party leader had warned his top team they had to show "leadership" by not joining pro-strike demonstrations.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

Would you expect labour mps to attend picket lines in government or attend meetings to resolve the issues? Tory ministers dojng fuck all to sort this out are far more at fault but you and the media want the story to be about starmer. He should walk he can’t win and won’t win

I want my members of parliament to be working to resolve not standing shoulder to shoulder with either side. Nuanced I know so too difficult for most of our population

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Its someone telling to get power they seem to believe they have to imitate the Tory party isn’t it?

They do that’s the country we live in unfortunately

 

[Grendel]

They do that’s the country we live in unfortunately

Corbyn got 42% of the vote

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Corbyn got 42% of the vote

Yep and …….

 

[Grendel]

Would you expect labour mps to attend picket lines in government or attend meetings to resolve the issues? Tory ministers dojng fuck all to sort this out are far more at fault but you and the media want the story to be about starmer. He should walk he can’t win and won’t win

I want my members of parliament to be working to resolve not standing shoulder to shoulder with either side. Nuanced I know so too difficult for most of our population

I would expect labour politicians to stand on picket lines if they are lawful yes.

Corbyn and Major ended up being more popular than anyone envisaged because they when campaigning went out and actually campaigned without advisors and scripted behaviour - thatcher was more polished but still had that back me or don’t philosophy

Starmer has zero conviction - if Rayner had some measure of control she’d be a far better leader

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Many labour Supporters and mps want opposition rather than power.

No we want them to stop letting the Conservative Party decide the narrative on every issue. Set ‘traps’ for them, campaign hard for things you know the public supports and show real leadership in the process.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I would expect labour politicians to stand on picket lines if they are lawful yes.

Corbyn and Major ended up being more popular than anyone envisaged because they when campaigning went out and actually campaigned without advisors and scripted behaviour - thatcher was more polished but still had that back me or don’t philosophy

Starmer has zero conviction - if Rayner had some measure of control she’d be a far better leader

You know that’s bollox don’t you. He may not be able to express it like the chancer that is johnson but course he has conviction

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No we want them to stop letting the Conservative Party decide the narrative on every issue. Set ‘traps’ for them, campaign hard for things you know the public supports and show real leadership in the process.

Like ….

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I would expect labour politicians to stand on picket lines if they are lawful yes.

Corbyn and Major ended up being more popular than anyone envisaged because they when campaigning went out and actually campaigned without advisors and scripted behaviour - thatcher was more polished but still had that back me or don’t philosophy

Starmer has zero conviction - if Rayner had some measure of control she’d be a far better leader

It’s also difficult when the government is the employer. I’ve been a trade unionist since starting work 30 years ago and am a representative at all levels in my union.

What would labour coming out in support of the rmt strike look like?