Do you want to discuss boring politics? (38 Viewers)

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duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
I'm aware of that but that wasn't my motivation for buying a house hence why I queried the assertion that people only buy property to 'better themselves'.

In any case how does the property value increasing actually benefit me? I can't realise that value without selling it and then I have nowhere to live, I've got no kids so leaving an inheritance is a non issue.

In other countries I've lived the differential between renting and purchasing has been much smaller which gives you more flexibility. For example if I need to move for my job its a lot harder when it involves selling and buying rather than just renting yet we're regularly told people should just move to where the jobs are.
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And just to add, most countries have far more secure tenancies as well.

We seem to live in a country of insecure rented housing, provided by individual buy-to-let landlords using them as a personal pension/investment plan, rented by people with diminishing job security.

I don't know who this best suits, but it's certainly not the younger generation and probably not the country as a whole.

It's almost as though market forces without regulation can lead to unwanted outcomes!
 
Alan Dugdales Moustache

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
Hold up a moment here. I'm not for a moment saying what you did was wrong, but what you actually did was took advantage of an opportunity to buy publicly provided housing on the cheap, and then sell it later for a substantial profit.

Individually that might be fair enough, but if that housing stock isn't replenished (it wasn't) then it makes it harder for everyone else looking for a place to live. The flaw was in the policy rather than what you did, and it's about to be repeated if Johnson gets his way.

I also, politely, don't exactly see it as bettering yourself as much as being smart enough to take advantage of an opportunity. Not everyone has that chance, it doesn't mean that they don't want to 'better themselves' too.
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I actually bought it purely because it was better than renting and I had absolutely no chance of buying a private property in London . What should I have done ?
What I did with it a few years later was to sell it because I realised that was as far as I would ever get on the property market in London and having renovated it I could make a few quid and move back to the Midlands.
If that's immoral I'm fine with it.
If that housing stock isn't replenished that's nowt to do with me.

I live a comfortable life now and rattle around in a large house with an in and out driveway.
For the value of my house I could buy a 2 bed flat in a house conversion with no garden in the same area of London I lived in back then. Best decision I ever made .
 
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P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
I actually bought it purely because it was better than renting and I had absolutely no chance of buying a private property in London . What should I have done ?
What I did with it a few years later was to sell it because I realised that was as far as I would ever get on the property market in London and having renovated it I could make a few quid and move back to the Midlands.
If that's immoral I'm fine with it.
If that housing stock isn't replenished that's nowt to do with me.
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I don't think anyone is saying it's immoral or the wrong thing to do.

Just that it was much easier to do back then, so the idea that all someone has to do to get on the property ladder is to work harder or want to better themselves and provide for the kids is wrong. It's just not possible for someone people no matter how much they want it.

You were very fortunate to have that chance, many people today are not so fortunate.
 
Alan Dugdales Moustache

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
I don't think anyone is saying it's immoral or the wrong thing to do.

Just that it was much easier to do back then, so the idea that all someone has to do to get on the property ladder is to work harder or want to better themselves and provide for the kids is wrong. It's just not possible for someone people no matter how much they want it.

You were very fortunate to have that chance, many people today are not so fortunate.
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Great post You are absolutely right. It is far, far more difficult now and hence I have had to help my kids out with deposits etc. I didn't need that leg up when I was young . It's wrong that young people can't get on the property ladder until they are well into their 30s. It's truly terrible . However, it's odd for someone to suggest my buying of a council flat was morally wrong in some way. Lots of tenants did it. What happened subsequent in terms of housing policies etc is not my doing. But you're right. I was very fortunate in many ways.
 
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Nick

Nick

Administrator
PVA said:
I don't think anyone is saying it's immoral or the wrong thing to do.

Just that it was much easier to do back then, so the idea that all someone has to do to get on the property ladder is to work harder or want to better themselves and provide for the kids is wrong. It's just not possible for someone people no matter how much they want it.

You were very fortunate to have that chance, many people today are not so fortunate.
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It also depends on expectations of what people want though.

I have mates who moan they can't buy anywhere and struggle, yet they are looking for houses in posh areas or 400k shitty new builds and wonder why. They turned their noses up when I moved to a rough area in a house that needed shit loads of work doing, however it did mean there was a fair whack of equity in it.

I have bought somewhere else now, it was cheap. I didn't want to have to struggle, in about 6 or 7 years time I will just rent it out and the rent will probably be double my mortgage and I will buy somewhere else.

House prices have got silly recently though and they are selling within days of going on the market so it makes it harder to actually find a house to buy.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Having just looked at the prices, I'm hoping for an interest rate rise sharp-ish!
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
No FPN, Johnson stays until next election, I think a competent if dull man in a suit plays well against him. No FPN, Johnson leaves and, say, Jeremy Hunt takes over, voters tend to go for the blue man in a suit vs the red one. FPN, Starmer leaves, Labour get new leader bounce regardless of whether Johnson stays or goes, so can ameliorate him going to a certain extent. There's also something to be said for a gritty northern leader in opposition to southern-based Tory.

Of course the danger is the membership elect Richard Burgon!
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No SCG member is getting close to enough nominations.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Great post You are absolutely right. It is far, far more difficult now and hence I have had to help my kids out with deposits etc. I didn't need that leg up when I was young . It's wrong that young people can't get on the property ladder until they are well into their 30s. It's truly terrible . However, it's odd for someone to suggest my buying of a council flat was morally wrong in some way. Lots of tenants did it. What happened subsequent in terms of housing policies etc is not my doing. But you're right. I was very fortunate in many ways.
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Right To Buy isn’t immoral for the buyer. Not replacing the housing stock however is immoral from the govt.
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
I actually bought it purely because it was better than renting and I had absolutely no chance of buying a private property in London . What should I have done ?
What I did with it a few years later was to sell it because I realised that was as far as I would ever get on the property market in London and having renovated it I could make a few quid and move back to the Midlands.
If that's immoral I'm fine with it.
If that housing stock isn't replenished that's nowt to do with me.

I live a comfortable life now and rattle around in a large house with an in and out driveway.
For the value of my house I could buy a 2 bed flat in a house conversion with no garden in the same area of London I lived in back then. Best decision I ever made .
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Please point me again to the place where it was called immoral?

What I would say is that if you're supporting the party who are about to buy some votes by doing it again, then it's obviously up for challenge and might justifiably be considered selfish or short-sighted.

In the meantime, stop taking insults when none are being offered. Trust me, if I'm trying to offend you it will be pretty obvious.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
Please point me again to the place where it was called immoral?

What I would say is that if you're supporting the party who are about to buy some votes by doing it again, then it's obviously up for challenge and might justifiably be considered selfish or short-sighted.

In the meantime, stop taking insults when none are being offered. Trust me, if I'm trying to offend you it will be pretty obvious.
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giphy.gif
 
Alan Dugdales Moustache

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
Please point me again to the place where it was called immoral?

What I would say is that if you're supporting the party who are about to buy some votes by doing it again, then it's obviously up for challenge and might justifiably be considered selfish or short-sighted.

In the meantime, stop taking insults when none are being offered. Trust me, if I'm trying to offend you it will be pretty obvious.
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What are you on about? I bought a flat under the RTB scheme in the 1980s. Nothing to do with politics for me. I was in my early 20s trying to get my foot on the property ladder. I haven't said anything about supporting any party in the future so I have no idea why you have brought that up. What relevance is it ?
As for whether it bettered me or not I think that's up to me to decide. As for making a substantial profit I don't recall saying anything other than I made a few quid.
 
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duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
What are you on about? I bought a flat under the RTB scheme in the 1980s. Nothing to do with politics for me. I was in my early 20s trying to get my foot on the property ladder. I haven't said anything about supporting any party in the future so I have no idea why you have brought that up. What relevance is it ?
As for whether it bettered me or not I think that's up to me to decide. As for making a substantial profit I don't recall saying anything other than I made a few quid.
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Relevance? It's a politics thread. The point isn't solely to highlight your personal success, lovely as I'm sure that is for you, it's also to discuss the flaw in the policy.

You'd say you've bettered yourself, but politely, as I see it you've not exactly pulled yourself out of the gutter by your bootstraps.

You were fortunate enough to obtain public housing and you've later taken full advantage of a right-to-buy at a substantial discount, which is fair enough.

You've also made a bit more than a 'few quid' out of it, again fair enough.

You're definitely personally better off, there's no argument there, but whether the policy makes the country as a whole better off is definitely debatable given the deliberate failure to replenish the public housing stock.

However it's pretty much the first time you've not accused someone of calling you 'immoral', which I can't see anyone has? That's what I'm 'on about'.

You're taking offence at something you're seeing which unless I've missed it literally isn't there. I could just as easily ask, what are you on about?
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
It sounds like Boris’ army of idiots are going to claim that the elections were unfair because people were voting tactically, claiming a pact.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
I think it’s the Daily Mail that broke the story.
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I saw the headline in the Times and they’re not usual ones to make stuff up/include random stories. Also again shows plenty have got it in for him as they would’ve known this for two years yet now it leaks. I just can’t see how he can hold on the unless there’s some kind of political/economic earthquake
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
It sounds like Boris’ army of idiots are going to claim that the elections were unfair because people were voting tactically, claiming a pact.
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Suella Baverman stepping up to take this one….
Only slightly less detached from reality than Dorries.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
He's just openly laughing at us really isn't he.

Just total and utter contempt for the people he's supposed to lead while mocking them as they plunge into a cost of living crisis.

And yet there are people out there who genuinely think he has their best interests at heart.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
He's just openly laughing at us really isn't he.

Just total and utter contempt for the people he's supposed to lead while mocking them as they plunge into a cost of living crisis.

And yet there are people out there who genuinely think he has their best interests at heart.
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Well let's take some of the quotes from Thursday night

'He has worked valiantly for us'
'Come on he got Covid as well and got ill'
'I think people got sick of hearing about the parties'

People defend him like they would one of their friends. But this is a 'friend' who has turned you into a cuck of Will Smith proportions
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Well let's take some of the quotes from Thursday night

'He has worked valiantly for us'
'Come on he got Covid as well and got ill'
'I think people got sick of hearing about the parties'

People defend him like they would one of their friends. But this is a 'friend' who has turned you into a cuck of Will Smith proportions
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It's just a cult really isn't it


 
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