Do you want to discuss boring politics? (316 Viewers)

[Ian1779]

Why's he going on about Tiverton as if Labour won that seat?

More bollocks from Keith.

 

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[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Are people actually claiming Tiverton was a bad result for Labour?

No, it was a fantastic result wasn't it ? No one voted for them.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Imagine being as stupid as to think that the liberal democrats are part of some sort of 'progressive' alliance



Get to fucking fuck

At least the hippie master Ed Davey puts his pronouns in the bio

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If they’re like the prick who defected in Bury they can stay where they are

 

[skybluetony176]

I really don’t think it’s a good look for labour to taking them.

 

[fernandopartridge]

You'd think being a marketing guru at Jaguar/Land Rover, he'd know wasting all your effort and marketing budget on a customer base who is unlikely to buy one of the your cars is not clever.

The same goes with Politics, always has done. Even in the general election all parties will focus more effort on a winnable seats than one thats needs a large swing and not likely to vote for you.

They had likely done a bit of canvassing and focus groups in the area and got the sense people were leaving towards the Lib dems, and so concentrated on getting the red wall back.

Its not like the Tories didn't have a pact with the brexit party who pulled their candidates.

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What a silly comparison though consistent with the 'voting as brand loyalty' vibes you see on here. To take your analogy further why would you bother standing a candidate?

 

[David O'Day]

I really don’t think it’s a good look for labour to taking them.

Maybe, maybe not but it's a fucking terrible look for the tories if it happens.

Be interesting to see where they are mps for if this is true

Likely Red Wall which tells you what they think of their chances of getting re-elected as tories

 

[Grendel]

Oh Grenners, that weird old soak

Block him

Frankly if we could somehow put to the U.K. you as the voice of the Labour Party it would really be the end wouldn’t it - how’s the Marstons pub that you buy supplies from the guy with the nasty podcast going? He’s banned from Twitter now I see.

I actually also find it very curious you used David O Day as your name. It’s clearly a made up name but who is he? I am genuinely curious.

 

[Ian1779]

You'd think being a marketing guru at Jaguar/Land Rover, he'd know wasting all your effort and marketing budget on a customer base who is unlikely to buy one of the your cars is not clever.

The same goes with Politics, always has done. Even in the general election all parties will focus more effort on a winnable seats than one thats needs a large swing and not likely to vote for you.

They had likely done a bit of canvassing and focus groups in the area and got the sense people were leaving towards the Lib dems, and so concentrated on getting the red wall back.

Its not like the Tories didn't have a pact with the brexit party who pulled their candidates.

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Just for clarity - did you see who came second in Tiverton in 2019?
Whilst the idea to have this informal pact in this by-election was probably not the worst given what would be a lower turnout - but that’s going to hold up come a GE.

 

[Grendel]

What a silly comparison though consistent with the 'voting as brand loyalty' vibes you see on here. To take your analogy further why would you bother standing a candidate?

The day Labour and the Tories decide not to is the end of politics. It’s pathetic - at least Corbyn and thatcher had conviction and had belief. At least Corbyn did in 2017 before he was watered down

If Corbyn won an election at least he stands for something. Thatcher stood for something. Since then it’s been a watered down mush. Starmer really is a disaster - utterly hopeless - who would actually want to vote for him as him - it’s truly pathetic

 

[clint van damme]

I really don’t think it’s a good look for labour to taking them.

I'd imagine they'll feel right at home

 

[David O'Day]

Just for clarity - did you see who came second in Tiverton in 2019?
Whilst the idea to have this informal pact in this by-election was probably not the worst given what would be a lower turnout - but that’s going to hold up come a GE.

Yes Labour finsihed 2nd in 2019 but massively 2nd i.e almost 40 points behind so yes Labour not even trying in thsi election and their support voting for the best placed party to beat the tory is a good thing.

 

[skybluetony176]

Maybe, maybe not but it's a fucking terrible look for the tories if it happens.

Be interesting to see where they are mps for if this is true

Likely Red Wall which tells you what they think of their chances of getting re-elected as tories

It’s definitely not a good look for the Tories but I don’t think traditional labour voters will appreciate it either, especially from the current crop of cult Tories.

 

[David O'Day]

It’s definitely not a good look for the Tories but I don’t think traditional labour voters will appreciate it either, especially from the current crop of cult Tories.

opposition parties will always take government party mps who defect to them.

the optics nationally outweigh the cons

Also the former tories will have to be selected by the CLP if they want to stand again as Labour. The CLP can trigger ballot them if not.

 

[Grendel]

opposition parties will always take government party mps who defect to them.

the optics nationally outweigh the cons

Also the former tories will have to be selected by the CLP if they want to stand again as Labour. The CLP can trigger ballot them if not.

I assume you have an active role in the Labour Party - what is it you do? Cov SW isn’t it?

 

[stupot07]

Why's he going on about Tiverton as if Labour won that seat?

He mentioned Tiverton once, in the context of both the Wakefield and Tiverton results suggest the UK want change away from a tory government.

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[Grendel]

He mentioned Tiverton once, in the context of both the Wakefield and Tiverton results suggest the UK want change away from a tory government.

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When was the last time the Tories lost two bi elections in the same week?

 

[Ian1779]

Yes Labour finsihed 2nd in 2019 but massively 2nd i.e almost 40 points behind so yes Labour not even trying in thsi election and their support voting for the best placed party to beat the tory is a good thing.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a good thing - but if Labour were 40pts behind in 2nd then the Lib Dems were even further behind in 3rd.
What does that look like in a GE is what I am saying. Number of votes will be much larger and even if the pact remains intact is it enough to keep the seat?

 

[Grendel]

I didn’t say it wasn’t a good thing - but if Labour were 40pts behind in 2nd then the Lib Dems were even further behind in 3rd.
What does that look like in a GE is what I am saying. Number of votes will be much larger and even if the pact remains intact is it enough to keep the seat?

well no as with most Lib Dem nonsense it’s back where it belonged

 

[fernandopartridge]

He mentioned Tiverton once, in the context of both the Wakefield and Tiverton results suggest the UK want change away from a tory government.

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The article was about Labour

It also means that while the Tories are focused on sowing division and hoping to feed off the fallout, Labour is now firmly in the centre ground of British politics. That’s not a place of mushy compromise or a halfway house between unpalatable extremes, but a centre ground driven by ethical purpose. It’s a place that is dedicated to answering the clarion call – sounded loudly and clearly in Wakefield and Tiverton and Honiton – of all those demanding real change to how our country works and on whose behalf it works. The next Labour government will take on those demands with a restless, reforming zeal. The most urgent mission, the one that will drive our agenda, is to change Britain’s economy so that everyone can contribute to, and benefit from, a new national prosperity.

Or is just saying vote for us or the Lib Dems it doesn't matter

 

[stupot07]

When was the last time the Tories lost two bi elections in the same week?

Maggie Thatcher?

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[David O'Day]

I didn’t say it wasn’t a good thing - but if Labour were 40pts behind in 2nd then the Lib Dems were even further behind in 3rd.
What does that look like in a GE is what I am saying. Number of votes will be much larger and even if the pact remains intact is it enough to keep the seat?

Yes but it's easier for people who voted tory to switch to the lib dems so if the labour voters tactically vote for the lib dems then they potential ceiling is higher.

There will be plenty of southern seats where Labour finished a distant 2nd but the lib dems have a better chance of beating the tories

 

[David O'Day]

Also the Lib dems where about 3k votes behind Labour in 2019 in tiverton

 

[Grendel]

Maggie Thatcher?

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no 1991 under John major - even dimwit major managed to win against the odds a year later against someone far better that the wet lettuce Starmer

 

[Ian1779]

Yes but it's easier for people who voted tory to switch to the lib dems so if the labour voters tactically vote for the lib dems then they potential ceiling is higher.

There will be plenty of southern seats where Labour finished a distant 2nd but the lib dems have a better chance of beating the tories

So just by using these figures alone - it would take all Labour & LD voters plus at least 20% of that Tory vote to defect to keep it in the next GE.

 

[Ian1779]

The article was about Labour



Or is just saying vote for us or the Lib Dems it doesn't matter

It’s just meaningless tosh from start to finish.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

View attachment 25075
So just by using these figures alone - it would take all Labour & LD voters plus at least 20% of that Tory vote to defect to keep it in the next GE.

Tbf, if that seat changed permanently it'd be a seismic shift so unlikely we're more likely to see Caroline Lucas as next PM

 

[skybluetony176]

no 1991 under John major - even dimwit major managed to win against the odds a year later against someone far better that the wet lettuce Starmer

Boris isn’t fit to tie Majors shoe laces though. Non of the current cabinet is fit to tie the shoe laces of any of Majors cabinet and the back benches just voted to remove Boris.

There’s such a thing as the sum of all parts and that’s before you consider this Tory is a cult not the traditional Tory party.

There’s also the not insignificant detail that Major went into that election with a recovering economy. Yours and Boris’ brexit is going to ensure that isn’t a card that Boris will have, according to every economist you care to ask.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

no 1991 under John major - even dimwit major managed to win against the odds a year later against someone far better that the wet lettuce Starmer

Is this a swipe at Johnson?

 

[skybluetony176]

Should be a huge labour majority in 2025 then if this thread is right

I would think a hung parliament is the most likely outcome. It all depends on how much red wall labour can win back and how many seats the Tories lose elsewhere. The Tories losing swathes of seats at the next GE is the only thing I’d put money on at the moment.

 

[Grendel]

Is this a swipe at Johnson?

No it’s referencing even Major managed A general election majority against that background. Neil Kinnock was a pretty good Labour leader who did balance the Union demands and recognised aspirations as well. His shadow cabinet especially Hattersley was strong.

A year later after major’s two defeats in a week he still lost. Starmer is pathetic he has nothing. The irony of course is if Corbyn hadn’t allowed Starmer his stupid Brexit fudge - which led to the election catastrophe- and admitted he wanted a hard Brexit and uk Job protectionism- he may have won why he caved in to Starmer and even allowed him in the shadow cabinet ive no idea

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I would think a hung parliament is the most likely outcome. It all depends on how much red wall labour can win back and how many seats the Tories lose elsewhere. The Tories losing swathes of seats at the next GE is the only thing I’d put money on at the moment.

The Tories are also simply waiting for the optimal point to replace him with a competent, non-criminal figure

 

[PVA]

The Tories are also simply waiting for the optimal point to replace him with a competent, non-criminal figure

Which is why Labour and others are trying to stick all this shit on the Tories as a party rather than Johnson specifically. Hopefully it works.

 

[skybluetony176]

Is this a swipe at Johnson?

You can only assume it is.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No it’s referencing even Major managed A general election majority against that background. Neil Kinnock was a pretty good Labour leader who did balance the Union demands and recognised aspirations as well. His shadow cabinet especially Hattersley was strong.

A year later after major’s two defeats in a week he still lost. Starmer is pathetic he has nothing. The irony of course is if Corbyn hadn’t allowed Starmer his stupid Brexit fudge - which led to the election catastrophe- and admitted he wanted a hard Brexit and uk Job protectionism- he may have won why he caved in to Starmer and even allowed him in the shadow cabinet ive no idea

Well aside from the twaddle about unions being anti-aspiration I completely agree. Corbyn we all knew was pro Brexit but got caught in the focus group trap, tried to please everyone and ended up angering them instead.

I did go around several picket lines yesterday-no Labour MPs to be seen presumably following Starmer's orders