Do you want to discuss boring politics? (58 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

The author is someone I know fairly well. Her arguments on


Do we have statistics on the number of times a man has transitioned to being a woman then used that to assault women in toilets or changing areas? Genuine question

What’s that got to do with anything?

I mean it happens and we have data showing assaults on women go up in unisex spaces, but it’s not really the point.

 

---

[Grendel]

What’s that got to do with anything?

I mean it happens and we have data showing assaults on women go up in unisex spaces, but it’s not really the point.

Its a bizarre deflection

 

[Otis]

I actually agree with you

Tbf I don’t think he understands the actual point that’s being made

Exactly. No-one is saying trans good/trans bad, just the same as you wouldn't say men good/women bad, or vice versa.

It's not anti trans, or picking on trans, or
any vulnerable groups. It's just pointing out an issue if you allow men to identify as women.

 

[Otis]

It’s not an argument on assaults is it it’s about being comfortable in their own environment

Exactly. That's actually how my misuss worded it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What’s that got to do with anything?

I mean it happens and we have data showing assaults on women go up in unisex spaces, but it’s not really the point.

I had assumed it was based on that and athletics being brought up often when this debate happens. My wife who’s about as big a feminist as you will find argues strongly that ‘trans women are women’ and doesn’t understand the argument over allowing that to be the case.

 

[Grendel]

Exactly. That's actually how my misuss worded it.

I can’t find the article (it may have been a radio interview) but the girl guide organisation decided on a self identification policy and one instance occurred where a boy self identifying wanted to join and then go on a trip with communal showers and dorms

The mothers of the women felt uncomfortable and the leader ended up being booted out as she advised the individual to go to male Areas. She was then subjected to vile abuse by the baying mob - my daughters at 14 I think have a right not to share forms showers And facilities with a 14 year old with male genitalia and that’s all this is about really

 

[chiefdave]

I will happily admit I know very little about this issue. But the thought that springs to mind is how exactly is this ever going to be enforced?

What happens now if a male try to use female facilities or vice versa?

 

[Grendel]

I had assumed it was based on that and athletics being brought up often when this debate happens. My wife who’s about as big a feminist as you will find argues strongly that ‘trans women are women’ and doesn’t understand the argument over allowing that to be the case.

So she’d share a communal shower with someone with a penis and be fine with it?

 

[Sick Boy]

Sorry this is bollocks. Go talk to some feminist women about the problems with making woman a gender not a sex and removing womens spaces. Most of this came out during the proposed GRA reform a few years back.

It fuck all to do with “attacking a vulnerable minority”

Of course it had everything to do with attacking a vulnerable minority and directing anger away from the actual reasons behind issues.
It’s all alarmist bollocks.
Do you have examples where women’s changing rooms have been removed for example?

 

[skybluetony176]

I posted that picture yesterday of Truss dressing as Thatcher in various situations.

Didn't realise she had last night as well.

FFS.

It’s like a white bloke growing dreadlocks and thinking he’s part of black culture. Embarrassing.

 

[Grendel]

Of course it had everything to do with attacking a vulnerable minority and directing anger away from the actual reasons behind issues.
It’s all alarmist bollocks.
Do you have examples where women’s changing rooms have been removed for example?

its nothing to do with womens changing rooms being removed?

 

[Sick Boy]

I actually agree with you

Tbf I don’t think he understands the actual point that’s being made

Thanks for being condescending but I do actually.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So she’d share a communal shower with someone with a penis and be fine with it?

Why would she not be?

 

[Grendel]

Is this alarmist?

Ex-inmate gives account of sex assault by trans prisoner

Karen White ‘protected ahead of vulnerable women’

www.lawsociety.ie

 

[shmmeee]

I had assumed it was based on that and athletics being brought up often when this debate happens. My wife who’s about as big a feminist as you will find argues strongly that ‘trans women are women’ and doesn’t understand the argument over allowing that to be the case.

Id imagine based on your age your wife is a liberal feminist. It’s quite different from second wavers like my mum who grew up pushing back against gender as an oppressive force over women.

Telling them that what makes you a woman is a bit of lippy and a dress is hugely fucking offensive.

Telling women they aren’t allowed women only spaces or they’re bigots is offensive.

Putting rapists in prison with vulnerable women is fucking horrific TBQH.

If you’re not a feminist, but you value truth in politicians or science in policy then it’s a litmus test. Does the candidate spout things they know are nonsense for political expediency or do they tell the truth? That’s what’s done Mordaunt.

I’d love to dig deeper into what your wife means by TWAW. I suspect it’s “leave them alone in toilets” and not “men can literally change sex by thinking magic thoughts”.

 

[Grendel]

Why would she not be?

yeah ok. What if a woman was is she allowed to object?

 

[Sick Boy]

Is this alarmist?

Ex-inmate gives account of sex assault by trans prisoner

Karen White ‘protected ahead of vulnerable women’

www.lawsociety.ie

Yeah let’s just tar a whole group of people based on a sexual assault in a prison.

 

[shmmeee]

Of course it had everything to do with attacking a vulnerable minority and directing anger away from the actual reasons behind issues.
It’s all alarmist bollocks.
Do you have examples where women’s changing rooms have been removed for example?

Yes, self ID has come in all over the place.

I’d argue women are on the whole more vulnerable than trans people in this country. There’s virtually no trans murders here and mostly they’re white middle class kids.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

yeah ok. What if a woman was is she allowed to object?

Genuinely I don’t understand what you’re getting at. You just said it’s nothing to do with sexual assault in unisex areas so what would my wife have to be concerned about with someone with a penis using the same shower?

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah let’s just tar a whole group of people based on a sexual assault in a prison.

Do you think any man should be able to choose to go to a womens prison?

Why do you think we sex segregate prisons?

 

[Grendel]

Yeah let’s just tar a whole group of people based on a sexual assault in a prison.

No one is tarring a whole group - you haven’t commented on Debbie haytons views - I think Debbie has more knowledge than you? At least you agree with that surely?

 

[fernandopartridge]

The one which has nothing to do with what I posted? OK.

No, it's just another example of how superficial you are

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[shmmeee]

Genuinely I don’t understand what you’re getting at. You just said it’s nothing to do with sexual assault in unisex areas so what would my wife have to be concerned about with someone with a penis using the same shower?

What if your wife was religious and not allowed to undress around the opposite sex, or has a trauma response due to previous assault?

 

[SBT]

Exactly. That's actually how my misuss worded it.

The pretty clear implication there being that women should implicitly have something to fear from trans women.

I’ve not seen evidence that trans women are routinely responsible for women’s spaces becoming more dangerous, but the way this debate is being presented (by the Tory party, of all people!) is doing a wonderful job of demonising them regardless.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Perfectly normal

Her leadership campaign is as dead as Thatcher herself it seems

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Grendel]

Genuinely I don’t understand what you’re getting at. You just said it’s nothing to do with sexual assault in unisex areas so what would my wife have to be concerned about with someone with a penis using the same shower?

What if someone did? Is that trans phobic if they said they were uncomfortable and wanted that person not in the shower with them? Say a 14 year old girl in a shower with a man identifying as a women? Does she have a right to remove that person?

 

[Grendel]

Do you think any man should be able to choose to go to a womens prison?

Why do you think we sex segregate prisons?

So if mr Huntley becomes identified as a woman I guess it’s fine and dandy he’s transferred to a woman only prison @Sick Boy?

 

[Otis]

Is this alarmist?

Ex-inmate gives account of sex assault by trans prisoner

Karen White ‘protected ahead of vulnerable women’

www.lawsociety.ie

Incredibly sad and worrying isn't it, that case.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Id imagine based on your age your wife is a liberal feminist. It’s quite different from second wavers like my mum who grew up pushing back against gender as an oppressive force over women.

Telling them that what makes you a woman is a bit of lippy and a dress is hugely fucking offensive.

Telling women they aren’t allowed women only spaces or they’re bigots is offensive.

Putting rapists in prison with vulnerable women is fucking horrific TBQH.

If you’re not a feminist, but you value truth in politicians or science in policy then it’s a litmus test. Does the candidate spout things they know are nonsense for political expediency or do they tell the truth? That’s what’s done Mordaunt.

I’d love to dig deeper into what your wife means by TWAW. I suspect it’s “leave them alone in toilets” and not “men can literally change sex by thinking magic thoughts”.

Come to a game with us some time and you can have that conversation yourself. Germaine Greer who is a feminist of a previous era has written pretty strongly on this topic to the point of expressing openly transphobic views.

You have also said it’s not about men just trying to abuse access to women in unisex areas by claiming to be female-so what is it about? Genuinely, as I don’t understand.

 

[Sick Boy]

So if mr Huntley becomes identified as a woman I guess it’s fine and dandy he’s transferred to a woman only prison @Sick Boy?

Yeah because he’s clearly representative of the wider trans community.
Christ.

 

[Grendel]

Come to a game with us some time and you can have that conversation yourself. Germaine Greer who is a feminist of a previous era has written pretty strongly on this topic to the point of expressing openly transphobic views.

You have also said it’s not about men just trying to abuse access to women in unisex areas by claiming to be female-so what is it about? Genuinely, as I don’t understand.

Didn’t you say men should show respect if say they are in the night and walking on the same pavement as a women and cross the road so they aren’t threatened?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What if someone did? Is that trans phobic if they said they were uncomfortable and wanted that person not in the shower with them? Say a 14 year old girl in a shower with a man identifying as a women? Does she have a right to remove that person?

What is that person concerned about happening? Being assaulted? Because you’ve both said that’s not what it’s about.

 

[Grendel]

Yeah because he’s clearly representative of the wider trans community.
Christ.

You actually don’t get the point at all - if he self identified and the legislation was in place his human rights are infringed if he’s not transferred- don’t you get that?

 

[Sick Boy]

It’d be interesting to know whether once someone’s genitals have been changed, whether or not they’d then be allowed to enter a specific area?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Didn’t you say men should show respect if say they are in the night and walking on the same pavement as a women and cross the road so they aren’t threatened?

In the context of women being assaulted or worse, yes. But you said this isn’t about assault-so what is it?

Though for the record yeah whenever my wife is walking home on her own she changes her route and calls me or her family in case something happens.