Do you want to discuss boring politics? (215 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Johnson a lifetime of failure

‘It’s been a disaster’: how Boris Johnson’s docklands business hub turned into a ghost town

The former mayor touted the £1.7bn London development as a vibrant beacon for Asian companies. Now there isn’t a single tenant – though the dystopian setting is attracting film crews

www.theguardian.com

I’m sure he wished he could live your life David I bet he’s lying in bed at chequers and thinking “I want to be like IRA David where did it all go wrong”

 

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[PVA]

Johnson a lifetime of failure

‘It’s been a disaster’: how Boris Johnson’s docklands business hub turned into a ghost town

The former mayor touted the £1.7bn London development as a vibrant beacon for Asian companies. Now there isn’t a single tenant – though the dystopian setting is attracting film crews

www.theguardian.com

A failed Boris Johnson vanity project?

 

[skybluetony176]

I’m sure he wished he could live your life David I bet he’s lying in bed at chequers and thinking “I want to be like IRA David where did it all go wrong”

You’re clearly taking the inevitable fall of Boris badly so here’s an inspirational song to cheer you up

 

[David O'Day]

A failed Boris Johnson vanity project?

It's the fact that not one of the offices is in use makes it spectacular

 

[Grendel]

There are definitely some left wing intellectual heavyweights proving the IQ theory - I’ll get back to researching my XK purchase consideration

 

[Deleted member 5849]

There are definitely some left wing intellectual heavyweights proving the IQ theory - I’ll get back to researching my XK purchase consideration

You'd be better off with a Hillman Hunter

 

[PVA]

Tory MPs clapping, cheering and hollering as Johnson leaves...after spending the last few weeks telling us Johnson is useless and needs to go.

Also Hoyle having a fit at opposition benches clapping a Tory MP calling out the PM a few weeks ago, but happy to sit in silence watching them circle jerk over Johnson. God he's useless.

 

[David O'Day]

Mission Accomplished? If the mission is taking an 80 seat majority and making the tory party unelectable then congrats Johnson you rock

 

[rob9872]

Mission Accomplished? If the mission is taking an 80 seat majority and making the tory party unelectable then congrats Johnson you rock

Unelectable to you perhaps....

 

[fernandopartridge]

Having this debate about the forde report. I am more and more convinced that the left wing of the Labour Party want opposition as it comes without responsibility and accountability

laughable statement

 

[fernandopartridge]

The point is it works both ways. Corbyn was prime agitator against his own government after all, but they had a large enough majority he had no effect.

Watch most of those who think Truss is a crazed loon get behind her, as they did Johnson, and you'll see a more effective election fighting machine. I'll grant you that Rees Mogg and co didn't exactly unite behind May, mind you

A prime agitator = daring to vote against the whip - oh heavens democracy. Come on NW you're better than this.

 

[shmmeee]

A prime agitator = daring to vote against the whip - oh heavens democracy. Come on NW you're better than this.

Or, ya know, agitating

These Rebel MPs Are Planning a War with Labour Austerity

Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and their socialist mates won't let a Labour government implement more austerity.

www.vice.com

Answer me this: if everything the left has done has been perfect, why do they keep losing?

At some point you’ve got to make an honest appraisal of your situation or you’re doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

 

[chiefdave]

Was there a US study that linked being right wing with being less intelligent?

There's a study showing a link between the brain starting to degenerate and being more right wing. The idea being that the first part of the brain to suffer age related damage is the part of the brain that handles empathy, can't remember the actual scientific word they used but that was the general idea.

Should point out that it very clearly stated further research was needed before the link could be proven.

 

[Grendel]

There's a study showing a link between the brain starting to degenerate and being more right wing. The idea being that the first part of the brain to suffer age related damage is the part of the brain that handles empathy, can't remember the actual scientific word they used but that was the general idea.

Should point out that it very clearly stated further research was needed before the link could be proven.

There is an obvious reason for that

 

[shmmeee]

There's a study showing a link between the brain starting to degenerate and being more right wing. The idea being that the first part of the brain to suffer age related damage is the part of the brain that handles empathy, can't remember the actual scientific word they used but that was the general idea.

Should point out that it very clearly stated further research was needed before the link could be proven.

I mean plasticity drops as you age IIRC, so accepting new ideas will always come harder the older you get.

There’s three interesting psychology experiments that I think explain a lot of RW voting.

Loss Aversion: Loss aversion - Wikipedia

Basically humans worry more about losing something than they care about gaining the same amount. So “Labour is going to take your money” hits better than “free stuff!!”

Wealth Decreases Empathy: How Wealth Reduces Compassion

Basically the richer you are the less you care for others.

And the Monopoly Experiment:Why rich people tend to think they deserve their money

Which has some overlap with the above but also shows people who succeed attribute their success to their own hard work regardless of the evidence.

Add in economics meaning the older you get the more you care about asset values and less about income potential, and you’ve got a potent mix to fight as a left winger.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Or, ya know, agitating

These Rebel MPs Are Planning a War with Labour Austerity

Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and their socialist mates won't let a Labour government implement more austerity.

www.vice.com

Answer me this: if everything the left has done has been perfect, why do they keep losing?

At some point you’ve got to make an honest appraisal of your situation or you’re doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

When did the right of the labour party last win an election?

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[fernandopartridge]

Or, ya know, agitating

These Rebel MPs Are Planning a War with Labour Austerity

Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and their socialist mates won't let a Labour government implement more austerity.

www.vice.com

I thought you were an advocate of the "broad church"?

I think you know full well that Corbyn and McDonnell were / are not non-elected officials using party funds covertly to undermine the party leadership? They were just MPs seeking to broaden their electoral appeal (and let's be honest Labour in 2015 after 5 years of austerity had very little).

You're quoting from an article that makes statements like this with a straight face:

The headlines are radical – on tackling the deficit, an end to austerity, calls for a wealth tax, a minimum wage of £10 an hour and the nationalisation of public services.

Answer me this: if everything the left has done has been perfect, why do they keep losing?

At some point you’ve got to make an honest appraisal of your situation or you’re doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

Where have I made such a claim of perfection? One thing is for sure, some officials in the Labour party worked actively to ensure that the left did not win (even if its unclear whether it actually contributed to the defeat or not).

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Surely the most intelligent people are in the middle of the political spectrum. The hard shoulders of each side are a mess, and whilst I fully agree the Alex Jones type lunatics are idiots on one side, some of these so called 'intelligent' people on the left are an absolute joke as well. They don't live in any kind of reality. We seem to spend so much time talking and dealing with the problems of each extreme as well, that a lot of important stuff just gets glossed over.

The Conservatives are a complete mess at the moment and it is astonishing that Labour haven't done anything despite having open goal after open goal for the last few years. Hopefully that will change, as I for one think the Tories should be punished for being such unaccountable twats. That being said, Labour really need to get their house in order and stop being such floppy cocks in order to do it, and they haven't seemed that capable so far.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Surely the most intelligent people are in the middle of the political spectrum. The hard shoulders of each side are a mess, and whilst I fully agree the Alex Jones type lunatics are idiots on one side, some of these so called 'intelligent' people on the left are an absolute joke as well. They don't live in any kind of reality. We seem to spend so much time talking and dealing with the problems of each extreme as well, that a lot of important stuff just gets glossed over.

The Conservatives are a complete mess at the moment and it is astonishing that Labour haven't done anything despite having open goal after open goal for the last few years. Hopefully that will change, as I for one think the Tories should be punished for being such unaccountable twats. That being said, Labour really need to get their house in order and stop being such floppy cocks in order to do it, and they haven't seemed that capable so far.

If the status quo were always the most sensible option Christ knows how society would look today.

 

[David O'Day]

Should point out that it very clearly stated further research was needed before the link could be proven.

Do we need to give them Grenners details then?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Surely the most intelligent people are in the middle of the political spectrum. The hard shoulders of each side are a mess, and whilst I fully agree the Alex Jones type lunatics are idiots on one side, some of these so called 'intelligent' people on the left are an absolute joke as well. They don't live in any kind of reality. We seem to spend so much time talking and dealing with the problems of each extreme as well, that a lot of important stuff just gets glossed over.

The Conservatives are a complete mess at the moment and it is astonishing that Labour haven't done anything despite having open goal after open goal for the last few years. Hopefully that will change, as I for one think the Tories should be punished for being such unaccountable twats. That being said, Labour really need to get their house in order and stop being such floppy cocks in order to do it, and they haven't seemed that capable so far.

The intelligent centre you talk about have been in charge of the Labour party for the last two years lol

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The intelligent centre you talk about have been in charge of the Labour party for the last two years lol

I don't agree I'm afraid. If Labour behaved as if they were a centrist party then they would be in power now.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't agree I'm afraid. If Labour behaved as if they were a centrist party then they would be in power now.

Is laughing at the unions not centrist enough?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You could argue that heading for the middle shows a lack of vision. Nietzsche, Rousseau, Marx, Mill weren't centrists.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I don't agree I'm afraid. If Labour behaved as if they were a centrist party then they would be in power now.

Lol

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[Deleted member 5849]

Neither, of course, were the governments with the most influence on us in the 20th century. Lloyd George, Attlee (although compared to Bevan he was!) and even Churchill were not centrists.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Surely the most intelligent people are in the middle of the political spectrum. The hard shoulders of each side are a mess, and whilst I fully agree the Alex Jones type lunatics are idiots on one side, some of these so called 'intelligent' people on the left are an absolute joke as well. They don't live in any kind of reality. We seem to spend so much time talking and dealing with the problems of each extreme as well, that a lot of important stuff just gets glossed over.

The Conservatives are a complete mess at the moment and it is astonishing that Labour haven't done anything despite having open goal after open goal for the last few years. Hopefully that will change, as I for one think the Tories should be punished for being such unaccountable twats. That being said, Labour really need to get their house in order and stop being such floppy cocks in order to do it, and they haven't seemed that capable so far.

It depends on what type of intelligence.

If we're talking about pragmatic realism, then yes, centre ground would be.

Those more to the left maybe don't have that realism as much, and their ideas are more radical, but that doesn't necessarily make them bad or unintelligent. Look at some of the things that in the past were considered totally crazy suggestions yet nowadays are accepted truth. Woman/blacks/poor being as intelligent and capable as men/whites/rich, homosexuality and same sex marriage, not running society for the benefit of a group of elites, climate change. All of these would have been considered totally radical nonsense at one point, but have steadily moved into being the norm.

I consider myself a bit in the last group, as I have quite radical ideas. But I also know that there would every attempt made to scupper them by those with a vested self interest and a lot more power and influence than me. Some would need 'ducks lined up' and two or three different things occurring simultaneously to be effective when it's nigh on impossible getting just one through. Add in the natural suspicion and fear of anything different and people playing on those fears and I know I can't win, even if I'm confident what I'm suggesting would be an improvement on how things are.

 

[Grendel]

Is laughing at the unions not centrist enough?

Why have you suddenly turned into a Strawbs tribute act?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Lol

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You can 'LOL' all you want, but that kind of attitude is exactly why Labour haven't won despite numerous open goals over the last few years. I honestly think come voting time most people are picking between what they perceive as the lesser of two evils. The Tory credit in the bank is definitely slipping in that sense, but to be on the sidelines and watch them implode, without being able to take advantage of it is embarrassing.

Labour could win pretty easily if they got rid of the kind of attitude you are showing here, and I say that as someone who is a complete swing voter.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It depends on what type of intelligence.

If we're talking about pragmatic realism, then yes, centre ground would be.

Those more to the left maybe don't have that realism as much, and their ideas are more radical, but that doesn't necessarily make them bad or unintelligent. Look at some of the things that in the past were considered totally crazy suggestions yet nowadays are accepted truth. Woman/blacks/poor being as intelligent and capable as men/whites/rich, homosexuality and same sex marriage, not running society for the benefit of a group of elites, climate change. All of these would have been considered totally radical nonsense at one point, but have steadily moved into being the norm.

I consider myself a bit in the last group, as I have quite radical ideas. But I also know that there would every attempt made to scupper them by those with a vested self interest and a lot more power and influence than me. Some would need 'ducks lined up' and two or three different things occurring simultaneously to be effective when it's nigh on impossible getting just one through. Add in the natural suspicion and fear of anything different and people playing on those fears and I know I can't win, even if I'm confident what I'm suggesting would be an improvement on how things are.

Rumbled

 

[fernandopartridge]

You can 'LOL' all you want, but that kind of attitude is exactly why Labour haven't won despite numerous open goals over the last few years. I honestly think come voting time most people are picking between what they perceive as the lesser of two evils. The Tory credit in the bank is definitely slipping in that sense, but to be on the sidelines and watch them implode, without being able to take advantage of it is embarrassing.

Labour could win pretty easily if they got rid of the kind of attitude you are showing here, and I say that as someone who is a complete swing voter.

Are you ignoring 2010 and 2015 then? Ignoring the decline of the Liberal Democrats?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why have you suddenly turned into a Strawbs tribute act?

Well ignoring that I represent one was Labour not born out of trade unions as their political arm? It still takes money off some of them but oddly the leader at best ignores them or at worst takes the piss

 

[shmmeee]

When did the right of the labour party last win an election?

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When did the left?

TBH I think, and I think you agree, that it’s liberalism rather than being left wing that’s the issue. And on that both sides are the issue.

I know I’ve pulled these out before but I think they say so much

 

[stupot07]

Liz Truss will be PM then. Much more liked by the grassroots Tory party, than Sunak.

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[David O'Day]

Liz Truss will be PM then. Much more liked by the grassroots Tory party, than Sunak.

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Brilliant for the Labour party who now can't really lose the next election

Terrible for the country until then