Investment ? (9 Viewers)

[Colonel Mustard]

A number of factors contributed to relegation not just the manager or players or lack of investment or boardroom unrest and not one decision by itself relegated us or would have guaranteed safety. The manager may have been a factor but not the only factor so no one decision would guarantee survival as there was still several other things wrong within the club, it was a combination of mistake after mistake that relegated us

I don't really want to get into this as it was done to death during the 2011- 2012 season. All I will say is that you're quite right in saying that nobody knows how things would have gone with a new manager, but sticking with one whose results and performance remained static and predictable was a recipe for surefire relegation. It was the simplest variable to change with the biggest potential impact.

 

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[SkyBlueBlood]

This close season SISU have done what they had no choice to do in reducing our costs at the same time as putting together a team that can be competitive in this league.

However, the reason they have had to reduce costs is because their incompetence over the past few seasons. They took over the club with a valid business plan both on and off the pitch of buying younger players with potential, developing them and selling for a profit, with part of the profit going to replacements of the same type and the remainder to clear off some of the debt. Where it started to go wrong was when they hit the panic button and just took the first price offered and became known as a club that will sell on the cheap.

This only went from bad to worse with SISU liquidating every asset they could get their hands on culminating an absolute destruction of the playing squad over the past 2 years. Had they maintained the original business plan our debt would have been lower and we would have been challenging for the Premier League and with some luck may have even been playing at that level now which would have removed all debts. Pure short sighted and incompetent management of our club cannot be defended.

Its not time for SISU to go now it was time for them to go when they changed the plan and destroyed our club.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I don't really want to get into this as it was done to death during the 2011- 2012 season. All I will say is that you're quite right in saying that nobody knows how things would have gone with a new manager, but sticking with one whose results and performance remained static and predictable was a recipe for surefire relegation. It was the simplest variable to change with the biggest potential impact.

Yea I guess, I was just trying to make the point that there were other decisions made by SISU that led to relegation as well as the choice of manager and to label one of them as the sole decision for relegation is unfair. There were several things wrong with the club last season which I noted above that needed to be changed for the club to move forward or even remain stationary, thankfully it looks like steps are being made to change all the factors for the better an not just one or the other.

A change in manager without changing other things wrong at the club would have just been a role of the dice

 

[italiahorse]

Valiant..........why dont you just fuck off!

Well said. There are some real dickheads around this year.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

A change in manager without changing other things wrong at the club would have just been a role of the dice

Sure, but you'd only have to roll higher than a one to see an improvement.

 

[sky blue john]

Sure, but you'd only have to roll higher than a one to see an improvement.

A one is a high probability in terms of sisu's ability to pick a manager.
You seem to have it in for Thorn still.
What about the previous managers that sisu employed. They got millions in funds for new players only being able to manage survival are they better than Thorn ?

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

Well said. There are some real dickheads around this year.

why are they dickheads, its called having an opinion you believe in ,right or wrong !!!

Can we just not let people speak without them being ridiculed. Valiant and others are valid members of this site being skyblue supporters, either don't read their posts or if you do reply, explain why you think he's got it wrong, without resorting to puerile abuse.

The Rev

 

[Colonel Mustard]

A one is a high probability in terms of sisu's ability to pick a manager.

SISU don't pick the managers.

You seem to have it in for Thorn still.

Not really. He's gone. Good for the club, wish him the best.

What about the previous managers that sisu employed. They got millions in funds for new players only being able to manage survival are they better than Thorn ?

We haven't had a successful manager at the club for a very long time.

 

[Grendel]

SISU don't pick the managers.



Not really. He's gone. Good for the club, wish him the best.



We haven't had a successful manager at the club for a very long time.

You'll soon be on his ignore list.

 

[cloughie]

Well in this hypothetical situation where are we in the league? Because if we're in the top 6, then he would not be sold, as promotion would come with an increased income far greater than Cody's value. If we're 15th, then clearly something won't be right and I'm sure Cody would fetch 1 million plus, which could be used to rebuild a squad.
This club could barely operate, financially, in the Championship, it cannot operate in League 1, we need to get out of it and those in charge understand this.

As for the original post, you claim we have brought in 9 free transfers? Interesting as we have definitely paid for Barton and definitely paid something for Fleck. Not to mention signing on fees for all 9 players and agency fees on top. I would hazard a guess we've spent at least 600k this summer, which funnily enough is exactly the figure we owe in rent!

£600.000 and the income from players sold????????

 

[Grendel]

£600.000 and the income from players sold????????

Also factor in significant losses in revenue through relegation.

No question this club is as ever bleeding cash.

 

[cloughie]

I really do not understand what your problem is unless it is a prolonged hangover from them finally terminating your friends tenure.

Of course they have a large budget versus most teams in this league. Bell, wood, mcsheffrey and even baker will alone be earning 4 times the league average.

Would they sell players if they had to? Yes as would every league one club.

We are strapped financially but fisher and waggot have some vision. They have stabilised a football club previously.

You snipe but offer no alternative. What would you do if you were chairman?

Read this carefully its a first

Grendel I agree with you

but would say fisher cannot be trusted

 

[theprince]

With this new manager situation people are taking their eye off the ball. Don't think for one minute sisu puppet Fisher has suddenly decide to fund a promotion push. He will sell anyone anytime to bring in cash for our owners, wouldn't mind betting he's on some sort of bonus for it. Just remember we are a migin from liquidation sisu can pull the plug anytime and don't think they won't. I believe they will give ACL an ultimatum regards the rent they pay for the Ricoh. Fisher has already stated it should be north of £150000 that would be a drop of one million !! and it's rate payers money. ACL made a 600k profit last season so a reduction along those lines means a loss. Council cannot agree to that.

 

[Grendel]

With this new manager situation people are taking their eye off the ball. Don't think for one minute sisu puppet Fisher has suddenly decide to fund a promotion push. He will sell anyone anytime to bring in cash for our owners, wouldn't mind betting he's on some sort of bonus for it. Just remember we are a migin from liquidation sisu can pull the plug anytime and don't think they won't. I believe they will give ACL an ultimatum regards the rent they pay for the Ricoh. Fisher has already stated it should be north of £150000 that would be a drop of one million !! and it's rate payers money. ACL made a 600k profit last season so a reduction along those lines means a loss. Council cannot agree to that.

Almost certainly an incorrect assumption. I would say the opposite is true. Fisher is almost certainly on a bonus to achieve promotion. He has managed to persuade the owners to fund the season and it is down to him and Waggot to achieve this.

Rate payers and the council are irrelevant reagrding the rent - ACL are a private organisation independant from council funding.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Well in this hypothetical situation where are we in the league? Because if we're in the top 6, then he would not be sold, as promotion would come with an increased income far greater than Cody's value. If we're 15th, then clearly something won't be right and I'm sure Cody would fetch 1 million plus, which could be used to rebuild a squad.
This club could barely operate, financially, in the Championship, it cannot operate in League 1, we need to get out of it and those in charge understand this.

As for the original post, you claim we have brought in 9 free transfers? Interesting as we have definitely paid for Barton and definitely paid something for Fleck. Not to mention signing on fees for all 9 players and agency fees on top. I would hazard a guess we've spent at least 600k this summer, which funnily enough is exactly the figure we owe in rent!

Barton was a nominal fee maybe 100k and I don't think we paid for Fleck, we agreed some deal with Rangers to do with sell ons etc.
We took in approx. 2 mill from Gael and Keogh transfers

 

[Grendel]

Grendel I agree with you

It was inevitable you would see sense one day.

 

[Grendel]

Barton was a nominal fee maybe 100k and I don't think we paid for Fleck, we agreed some deal with Rangers to do with sell ons etc.
We took in approx. 2 mill from Gael and Keogh transfers

Loss of TV revenue of at least £1 million, loss of revenue through the gate as well. Also 9 signings means nine payments to agents - an expensive game.

 

[valiant15]

Italliahorse,id rather be a dickhead than a sisu rentboy like you anyday.

 

[theprince]

Almost certainly an incorrect assumption. I would say the opposite is true. Fisher is almost certainly on a bonus to achieve promotion. He has managed to persuade the owners to fund the season and it is down to him and Waggot to achieve this.

Rate payers and the council are irrelevant reagrding the rent - ACL are a private organisation independant from council funding.

Not they ain't council do see proffit from the Ricoh been said many times. Someone with better knowledge of the facts will come on hopefully and tell us. Do not be taken in by Fisher and his side kick Waggot. Their sole aim is to bring extra cash into our ownes coffers. How else can they do this without selling players, there is no other income.

 

[Grendel]

Not they ain't council do see proffit from the Ricoh been said many times. Someone with better knowledge of the facts will come on hopefully and tell us. Do not be taken in by Fisher and his side kick Waggot. Their sole aim is to bring extra cash into our ownes coffers. How else can they do this without selling players, there is no other income.

The club will lose significant amounts of money this season so that is nonsense.

 

[theprince]

The club will go out of business unless there is a significant change in it's income, even with a promotion push gate receipts will not be enough.

As for ACL being a private company they are similar body to Whitefriars iand the old City Centre One group now defunct as the council withdrew financial support might have been the Torys. Business's set up by the council for the council but run independantly. Funded initially by rate payers

 

[cloughie]

Almost certainly an incorrect assumption. I would say the opposite is true. Fisher is almost certainly on a bonus to achieve promotion. He has managed to persuade the owners to fund the season and it is down to him and Waggot to achieve this.

Rate payers and the council are irrelevant reagrding the rent - ACL are a private organisation independant from council funding.

princes assumption is as valid as yours, as we are not privelidged to that info. My GUESS would be as you say promotion as you say , that being why thorn was despatched at this time.

ACL is not really independant of the council as it owns 50% and is the leaseholder of the land and stadium.

If you REALLY believe fisher has persuded sisu to fund this season then you are deluded, it is self interest from sisu nothing more nothing less

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Loss of TV revenue of at least £1 million, loss of revenue through the gate as well. Also 9 signings means nine payments to agents - an expensive game.

I agree probably more lost in TV revenue. I am delighted we have signed so many players, improved the overall depth of the squad and seemingly saving money in the process. But lets not confuse that with SISU pumping extra cash into the club

 

[Grendel]

princes assumption is as valid as yours, as we are not privelidged to that info. My GUESS would be as you say promotion as you say , that being why thorn was despatched at this time.

ACL is not really independant of the council as it owns 50% and is the leaseholder of the land and stadium.

If you REALLY believe fisher has persuded sisu to fund this season then you are deluded, it is self interest from sisu nothing more nothing less

Losses this season are being covered or we would not be here.

Fisher has almost certainly sold this concept to the SISU board.

That said I am convinced we are in a promotion or bust situation - literally.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

SISU don't pick the managers.

Who does then, Colonel?

 

[cloughie]

That said I am convinced we are in a promotion or bust situation - literally.

I think that is certainly a possability but also a certainty for Fisher re his job and bonus. I believe thats why he acted so early on in the season

 

[sky blue john]

What i don't understand is how much abuse Thorn is getting on threads still.
Why didn't Dowie, Coleman and Bothroyd get as much abuse.
In my book they are far bigger culprits than Thorn. They were massively supported by the club in terms of transfer budgets and what did they achieve ?
Experienced managers and all they could manage was championship survival.
I am sure that Thorn would have kept us up
comfortably if he would have been allowed to keep Bothroyds squad.
Probably some on here have very short memories or choose to ignore.

 

[Astute]

Don't worry. If we miss out on automatic promotion by 1 point it will be the fault of AT and not whoever managed for the other 43 games

 

[kingharvest]

I think all those managers got a lot of abuse actually.

Interestingly, although thorn has been criticised on phone-ins and in forums, at matches the fans were very patient and I rarely heard much public abuse at games like bothroyd and Coleman got.

 

[valiant15]

I'm sorry,no manager has been massively supported financialy under sisu.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

What i don't understand is how much abuse Thorn is getting on threads still.

Mainly because people such as yourself bump threads that are a day old - like this one - with an untimely, passionate defence of Thorn. That then brings counter-arguments which you cannot handle.

 

[sky blue john]

Mainly because people such as yourself bump threads that are a day old - like this one - with an untimely, passionate defence of Thorn. That then brings counter-arguments which you cannot handle.

Im trying to work out if you have anything relevent to say or its just a personal attack ?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Im trying to work out if you have anything relevent to say or its just a personal attack ?

I merely answered your question.