Wasps downward spiral... (34 Viewers)

[Peter Billing Eyes]

Got a feeling the grant for the "new atruim" (porch) may well have paid for the shop..... whilst probably some of the millions have also found their way into the debt black hole....

Like paying to have the interior decorated whilst the roof is pissing in water.

 

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[shepardo01]

....now refusing to reply to Gilbert....

 

[chiefdave]

Update - new shop to open in new atrium- kit to be announced.....

hang on, does that mean they've had taxpayers money to sort out a club shop?

 

[shepardo01]

hang on, does that mean they've had taxpayers money to sort out a club shop?

Quite possibly CD, .....but that will fly totally under the radar and not even be questioned, as usual.. .

 

[shepardo01]

hang on, does that mean they've had taxpayers money to sort out a club shop?

 

[chiefdave]

not suspicious at all they can't afford players, staff or a useable pitch but they can sort out a new club shop in a part of the stadium they were given a grant for.

 

[joemercersaces]

How does this journalism thing work then?
Wasps ‘Bobby’
Bobby ‘Yes, sir?
Wasps ‘Get your pen out and take this down’

Simon Gilbert ‘Hi Wasps can I check something…hello, hello…they put the phone down’

 

[MusicDating]

Wasps confirm dialogue with HMRC over unpaid tax bill

Premiership club Wasps follow Midlands neighbours Worcester's lead by confirming ongoing dialogue with HMRC over an unpaid tax bill.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Liquid Gold]

"There has been no confirmation of unpaid taxes

It's good that we have a positive relationship and it'll all be sorted soon."

Guaranteed

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Blaming covid like other sport and leisure businesses, they've been losing £10m a year since they arrived 2013 ffs

 

[duffer]

Wasps confirm dialogue with HMRC over unpaid tax bill

Premiership club Wasps follow Midlands neighbours Worcester's lead by confirming ongoing dialogue with HMRC over an unpaid tax bill.

www.bbc.co.uk

There's a key bit in that article that I'd missed before.

The £13m that they're now begging the Council/WMCA for, is in effect the bailout that the Council gave ACL in 2013 (that they voted for in secret, as you'll recall).

So what Wasps are actually asking for is that the Council are put back on the hook for the stadium debt.

The primary justification people use to support the sale (also in secret) to Wasps, was that it got the taxpayer off the hook for the stadium.

Surely those same people will now be against risking public funds against the stadium again? Anything else would be hugely hypocritical, no?

Coventry City’s owners to sue over council’s Wasps deal as Ricoh bailout appeal lost

APPEAL judges have today upheld a previous ruling that a £14. 4million taxpayer bailout of the Ricoh Arena in 2013 was not an unlawful use of taxpayers’ money by Coventry City Council

www.coventryobserver.co.uk

 

[duffer]

So to summarise, since the stadium opened, ACL (now 100% owned by Wasps) have never managed to fully pay down that initial loan.

They had a public bailout in 2013, then a bond issue to repay it in 2015, and now in 2022, they're back to asking for public money.

It's absolute madness. The council wouldn't even consider it if the football club asked, why should Wasps be treated differently?

 

[duffer]

And the last one (promise). This time the 13m can't even be secured against the stadium, the bond holders now have the first charge against that.

We (the public) are being asked to lend money to a business that has never turned a profit, that has already been bailed out twice, and that has the threat of action against them from the bondholders on one side and HMRC on the other. Without security.

That it's even being considered is ludicrous.

 

[MalcSB]

There's a key bit in that article that I'd missed before.

The £13m that they're now begging the Council/WMCA for, is in effect the bailout that the Council gave ACL in 2013 (that they voted for in secret, as you'll recall).

So what Wasps are actually asking for is that the Council are put back on the hook for the stadium debt.

The primary justification people use to support the sale (also in secret) to Wasps, was that it got the taxpayer off the hook for the stadium.

Surely those same people will now be against risking public funds against the stadium again? Anything else would be hugely hypocritical, surely?

https://www.coventryobserver.co.uk/...ncils-wasps-deal-ricoh-bailout-t appeal-lost/

I thought that the bond money had paid that back, along with paying back Richardson and paying the first 3 years bonds interest.

 

[duffer]

I thought that the bond money had paid that back, along with paying back Richardson and paying the first 3 years bonds interest.

The bond money did pay it back - but the problem now is that they can't repay the bond.

So in essence they're asking to borrow the 13m again, so that they can repay the bond! It's madness.

 

[Grendel]

The bond money did pay it back - but the problem now is that they can't repay the bond.

So in essence they're asking to borrow the 13m again, so that they can repay the bond! It's madness.

There are asking to borrow in total £35 m plus I assume a grant for £13 m

 

[Grendel]

And the last one (promise). This time the 13m can't even be secured against the stadium, the bond holders now have the first charge against that.

We (the public) are being asked to lend money to a business that has never turned a profit, that has already been bailed out twice, and that has the threat of action against them from the bondholders on one side and HMRC on the other. Without security.

That it's even being considered is ludicrous.

It’s a grant application so why would it need to be secured? It will be dependant you would think on the bond holders agreeing a refunding plan

 

[tisza]

The bond money did pay it back - but the problem now is that they can't repay the bond.

So in essence they're asking to borrow the 13m again, so that they can repay the bond! It's madness.

It basically goes back to the initial loan the council took out to finish the stadium. Ccfc rent reduced the original amount but that loan basically hasn't been cleared in 17 years of stadium management. In one guise or another it remains.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It basically goes back to the initial loan the council took out to finish the stadium. Ccfc rent reduced the original amount but that loan basically hasn't been cleared in 17 years of stadium management. In one guise or another it remains.

The council were absolutely stupid incumbering a company with no trading history with such a large debt from day 1, I've said the same previously. I wouldn't mind but all ACL got in exchange was a 50 year lease.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[JAM See]

Couple of ways, either 12ft.io or archive.today

Probably the only useful post ever on here.

I won't pay to read the Torygraph or the Murdoch bile, but it's important to know what the enemy is thinking.

Many thanks.

 

[oldfiver]

Sky Blues RFC v Moseley on COV RFC thread

 

[ccfcchris]

English clubs to get cash injection at time of crisis for Worcester and Wasps

English rugby top clubs are to receive a much needed £20m cash injection this season thanks to their eight year funding deal with...

www.rugbypass.com

 

[duffer]

English clubs to get cash injection at time of crisis for Worcester and Wasps

English rugby top clubs are to receive a much needed £20m cash injection this season thanks to their eight year funding deal with...

www.rugbypass.com

So that's 20m split across 13 clubs, if I've read it right, with the level depending upon how many players from each club play for England. I'm not sure that this will get Wasps out of the hole they're in. A real pity, I know.

 

[wingy]

IDK maybe they can strip out some more from Championship clubs.
That salary cap sound's a bit tenuous when Wasps squad/team/club has been circa £15M many a year while up here.

 

[ccfcchris]

So that's 20m split across 13 clubs, if I've read it right, with the level depending upon how many players from each club play for England. I'm not sure that this will get Wasps out of the hole they're in. A real pity, I know.

It's a pittance and won't help Wasps in the slightest.

 

[CCFC54321]

 

[shepardo01]

6million sounds nowhere near as bad as Wasps situation (35m not being paid to bondholders) and begging for 13m, after already being gifted millions for the Commonwealth games.....
How is administration more or less nailed on for Worcester and not Wasps!!??

 

[Grendel]

6million sounds nowhere near as bad as Wasps situation (35m not being paid to bondholders) and begging for 13m, after already being gifted millions for the Commonwealth games.....
How is administration more or less nailed on for Worcester and not Wasps!!??

Because HMRC have petitioned a winding up order

 

[Kneeza]

Sweating bondholders dithering.
HMRC don't have such constraints.

 

[shepardo01]

Because HMRC have petitioned a winding up order

So purely based on what they owe in Tax to HMRC?
So because wasps owe shed-loads elsewhere but are generally OK (ish?) with HMRC, they can plod along?

 

[Grendel]

So purely based on what they owe in Tax to HMRC?
So because wasps owe shed-loads elsewhere but are generally OK (ish?) with HMRC, they can plod along?

They have to present this month a proposal to the bond holders with terms that need to be agreed - this is different as that’s a speculative investment - they can vote against it but no it’s not the same

 

[shepardo01]

They have to present this month a proposal to the bond holders with terms that need to be agreed - this is different as that’s a speculative investment - they can vote against it but no it’s not the same

What happens if bondholders don't say yes?...
And can they (Wasps) just tell them again, "it's OK, we'll pay you back soon!"??
What effectively has to happen for them to be put into administration??

Lots of questions, I know, but seems like Worcester are in a bit of bother quite out of the blue (?) ....and Wasps have been swindling and shafting people for money left right and centre (this has until recently, flown a bit under the radar) and are still ok to carry on.... and carry on as you frequently say, losing 10-18m year on year!!

 

[Grendel]

What happens if bondholders don't say yes?...
And can they (Wasps) just tell them again, "it's OK, we'll pay you back soon!"??
What effectively has to happen for them to be put into administration??

Lots of questions, I know, but seems like Worcester are in a bit of bother quite out of the blue (?) ....and Wasps have been swindling and shafting people for money left right and centre (this has until recently, flown a bit under the radar) and are still ok to carry on.... and carry on as you frequently say, losing 10-18m year on year!!

well no at that point ACl will be in administration but this tends to be what happens - some indicators then bang.

If Worcester owe £6 m to HMRC that’s huge. They’d have been issued a demand failed to pay and this is the next action

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

How do we know what Wasp owe HMRC if they don't file their accounts though?

 

[Grendel]

How do we know what Wasp owe HMRC if they don't file their accounts though?

The group has filed accounts but obviously the HMRC have had an arrangement with clubs regarding pay back terms and Worcester have breached these