Dom Hyam - Blackburn bid ? (2 Viewers)

[wingy]

A few people have pointed to how SISU have supported the club under MR. (arrived March 2017)

So some summary actual figures taken from published financial statements since 01 June 2017 to 31 May 2021

Losses in that period £10.56m
Interest charged by owners and included in losses £8.42m (Interest added to interest bearing loans )
so without the interest the club made £2.1m losses in that period

Player sales £11.28m
Player purchases £3.68m
To survive and still make losses of 2.2m the club needed to have a net £7.6m in player sales

SISU loans made £2.14m
SISU Funds extracted £2.25m
EFL Loan £2.4m ( - loan made in 2020/21 accounts repayable over 3 years i believe)
SISU net investment is minus 111k

Balance sheet deficit increased from £17.32m to £27.88m
total liabilities increased from £19.34m to £36.53m
the balance sheet deficit can be partially offset by the real value of the squad not the £3m amortised contract cost shown at 31/05/2021, but is the uplift in value of the whole squad £33m (that just gets us to break even balance sheet)

Of course some of this will have changed since 31/05/2021 and we wont know that until February what the 2022 results are

The club was kept going in that period because of player sales, not because of owner investment. The owners charge high rate interest that cant be paid because the club cannot afford it so is added to growing liabilities - they don't have to charge as much, or any interest, they choose to.

the telling thing to me about the owners is that the owners took out a net £111k during that period of success. That is not in my mind investing in the club. It also suggests that SISU struggle to get additional long term funds or have set a ceiling that only permits emergency funding. Comments from Boddy & MR suggest it is difficult (impossible?) to get further funding from the owners. The fact that they basically advertised the club as for sale also suggests a reluctance to fund further

I do not want us to sell Hyam or the "big three" but needs must because i have no confidence in the owners making sustainable funding available. If they do fund, probably short term cash flow funding, the interest rates will be high i would think

Last paragraph seems so.

Choice,yes seems so as it could be found initially when moving the club around, although obviously clawed back later via the player sales.

 

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[shepardo01]

Blackburn also after Van-Hecke- trying to-do (loan-fee) Sunderland.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Current situation

Looking from the outside I can not help but think that the club is really struggling for cash flow

Yes the postponement of two fixtures hurts short term cash flow. but most of it will be recouped when those fixtures played. Rough guess I would guess £300k deferred by postponement for each fixture. ST income is paid per match so there is no big pot of money sitting there waiting to be spent

However the club has had to finance player wages since June that has got to be in the region of at £3.5m at least. It is also the period when performance bonuses will have been paid so it could easily be more in terms of cash flow. Not to mention any contractual payments on player purchases

There are of course the usual overheads to meet probably another £1m. But some will be front loaded to cover the season. Shirt sales = payments to suppliers

There are the payments to meet on the EFL loan

There are contractual payments on players purchased this year or previously

Against that is the commercial income, shirt sales, EFL distributions & bonuses, sponsorship etc. How much is EFL money £6m ? and when is it paid?

I can see why the club might be struggling to make ends meet, why player sales are going to be used to keep going (SISU can not afford for the club to go bust whatever division we are in), can see why a lump sum upfront from Blackburn might be attractive but also essential.

I wouldnt think things are at all rosey in the CCFC garden, and can understand the frustrations from the management team

 

[oldskyblue58]

Do you think there is any exit strategy OSB?

In general yes, its to build squad value, major player sales extract funds from that then sell what's left after repaid loans & interest.

However right now and the rest of this season i believe that's been parked and its all about fire fighting. The coming recession is not going to help

which also suggests no material funding help for MR to bring players in or improve the squad (ie reliant on loans & free signings)

 

[oldskyblue58]

It’s the wider context - the failure to secure the stadium in 2012 - which was a clever strategy - has been eating at her ever since

i think you could well be right

 

[Nick]

Has he gone yet?

 

[Old Warwickshire lad]

A few people have pointed to how SISU have supported the club under MR. (arrived March 2017)

So some summary actual figures taken from published financial statements since 01 June 2017 to 31 May 2021

Losses in that period £10.56m
Interest charged by owners and included in losses £8.42m (Interest added to interest bearing loans )
so without the interest the club made £2.1m losses in that period

Player sales £11.28m
Player purchases £3.68m
To survive and still make losses of 2.2m the club needed to have a net £7.6m in player sales

SISU loans made £2.14m
SISU Funds extracted £2.25m
EFL Loan £2.4m ( - loan made in 2020/21 accounts repayable over 3 years i believe)
SISU net investment under MR is minus 111k

Balance sheet deficit increased from £17.32m to £27.88m
total liabilities increased from £19.34m to £36.53m
the balance sheet deficit can be partially offset by the real value of the squad not the £3m amortised contract cost shown at 31/05/2021, but is the uplift in value of the whole squad £33m (that just gets us to break even balance sheet)

Of course some of this will have changed since 31/05/2021 and we wont know that until February what the 2022 results are

The club was kept going in that period because of player sales, not because of owner investment. The owners charge high rate interest that cant be paid because the club cannot afford it so is added to growing liabilities - they don't have to charge as much, or any interest, they choose to.

the telling thing to me about the owners is that the owners took out a net £111k during that period of success. That is not in my mind investing in the club. It also suggests that SISU struggle to get additional long term funds or have set a ceiling that only permits emergency funding. Comments from Boddy & MR suggest it is difficult (impossible?) to get further funding from the owners. The fact that they basically advertised the club as for sale also suggests a reluctance to fund further. It also points to the owners intention to extract funds (in 2019 they extracted 1.7m but due Covid problem had to put it back in 2020)

I do not want us to sell Hyam or the "big three" but needs must because i have no confidence in the owners making sustainable funding available. If they do fund, probably short term emergency cash flow funding, the interest rates will be high and expected to be repaid on any major player sale i would think

Glad you’re back to make sense of it all. Proves SISU put nothing in,SISU only take.

 

[skyblu3sk]

hahahaha not like you to talk utter tripe now is it?

I was thinking exactly the same thing about you. Obviously no clue how the grocery sector works in any way shape or form but still puts opinion over as fact. Then again I'd also say that about your footballing and business knowledge...

 

[Greggs]

I was thinking exactly the same thing about you. Obviously no clue how the grocery sector works in any way shape or form but still puts opinion over as fact. Then again I'd also say that about your footballing and business knowledge...

So a football club is run like a grocery store? Hahahahaha. Got to be one of the best ever on here. Just like when you asked if we could sign female players!! Hahahahaha. What a fool.

 

[Greggs]

Has he gone yet?

Swapping him for a steak and 6 bottles of milk according to some on here.

 

[Grendel]

i think you could well be right

Which is the crux of the issue and why she’s still lurking around.

 

[Grendel]

So a football club is run like a grocery store? Hahahahaha. Got to be one of the best ever on here. Just like when you asked if we could sign female players!! Hahahahaha. What a fool.

First Tesco and now Arkwright grocery store

 

[robbiekeane]

A few people have pointed to how SISU have supported the club under MR. (arrived March 2017)

So some summary actual figures taken from published financial statements since 01 June 2017 to 31 May 2021

Losses in that period £10.56m
Interest charged by owners and included in losses £8.42m (Interest added to interest bearing loans )
so without the interest the club made £2.1m losses in that period

Player sales £11.28m
Player purchases £3.68m
To survive and still make losses of 2.2m the club needed to have a net £7.6m in player sales

SISU loans made £2.14m
SISU Funds extracted £2.25m
EFL Loan £2.4m ( - loan made in 2020/21 accounts repayable over 3 years i believe)
SISU net investment under MR is minus 111k

Balance sheet deficit increased from £17.32m to £27.88m
total liabilities increased from £19.34m to £36.53m
the balance sheet deficit can be partially offset by the real value of the squad not the £3m amortised contract cost shown at 31/05/2021, but is the uplift in value of the whole squad £33m (that just gets us to break even balance sheet)

Of course some of this will have changed since 31/05/2021 and we wont know that until February what the 2022 results are

The club was kept going in that period because of player sales, not because of owner investment. The owners charge high rate interest that cant be paid because the club cannot afford it so is added to growing liabilities - they don't have to charge as much, or any interest, they choose to.

the telling thing to me about the owners is that the owners took out a net £111k during that period of success. That is not in my mind investing in the club. It also suggests that SISU struggle to get additional long term funds or have set a ceiling that only permits emergency funding. Comments from Boddy & MR suggest it is difficult (impossible?) to get further funding from the owners. The fact that they basically advertised the club as for sale also suggests a reluctance to fund further. It also points to the owners intention to extract funds (in 2019 they extracted 1.7m but due Covid problem had to put it back in 2020)

I do not want us to sell Hyam or the "big three" but needs must because i have no confidence in the owners making sustainable funding available. If they do fund, probably short term emergency cash flow funding, the interest rates will be high and expected to be repaid on any major player sale i would think

Thanks for this. So just to be clear - the high interest on the loans is added as losses/debt/liability on paper but not actually extracted from the club? So it’s just there for when they come to sell (if ever) so they can take that money back?

 

[Grendel]

Thanks for this. So just to be clear - the high interest on the loans is added as losses/debt/liability on paper but not actually extracted from the club? So it’s just there for when they come to sell (if ever) so they can take that money back?

They took out £1.5m in 2019 - just depends on annual circumstance

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Thanks for this. So just to be clear - the high interest on the loans is added as losses/debt/liability on paper but not actually extracted from the club? So it’s just there for when they come to sell (if ever) so they can take that money back?

The interest is accrued each season but in 2019 they took out £1.6m following £4,381,086 in profits from player sales and the revenue earned from the PO run and promotion.

Most of the losses last season were a mix of accrued interest and amortisation from transfers.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

He doesn't want to aim for self-sufficiency, definitely not, selling players is a no.

He doesn't want the owers to inject money in the form of loans to cover shortfall, as they are (and not calling in) , also a no (this is not sustainable apparently).

What he wants it seems is "investment", but that can't be loans, they must pump in money, and when we finish 10th and lose a fortune, just write it off like it didn't matter.

That's modern football for you, that sense of entitlememt where football fans demand that their club owners should just spunk money up the wall, and when the club doesn't reach the promised land, ah well, not my money is it. Fuck em.

Yep. Investment is putting the money in and getting a return from improved performances brought about by that funding. Loans is getting a return regardless. Hence why they prefer it like that.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The truth seems that the pittance received for Hyam won’t touch the sides so someone else needs to go still. Which if true begs the question why sell Hyam at all-it’s certainly not for footballing reasons.

Agree entirely. If the Hyam sale was for say £3m and meant that our expenses were covered and didn't have to sell anyone else, the I could at least understand the thinking, even if I do think it leaves us weak defensively and we'd need to make a signing anyway.

If it doesn't do that, then what is it achieving other than making the team worse and thus more likely to lose and reduce income from tickets, merch, food etc?

It just feels like all that momentum and happy feeling in the camp is being thrown on the bonfire.

 

[robbiekeane]

They took out £1.5m in 2019 - just depends on annual circumstance

So just a placeholder for when they fancy taking the cash.

I’m honestly not sure we will ever get rid of them

 

[oldfiver]

They took out £1.5m in 2019 - just depends on annual circumstance

And put back £1.6m in 2020 ?

 

[Deleted member 2477]

Blackburn Rovers transfer move for Coventry City star potentially in doubt as barrier emerges

Blackburn Rovers' move for Coventry City centre-back Dominic Hyam will depend on Ben Brereton-Diaz being sold during this window, according to an update from Alan Nixon.

footballleagueworld.co.uk

 

[Samo]

Agree entirely. If the Hyam sale was for say £3m and meant that our expenses were covered and didn't have to sell anyone else, the I could at least understand the thinking, even if I do think it leaves us weak defensively and we'd need to make a signing anyway.

If it doesn't do that, then what is it achieving other than making the team worse and thus more likely to lose and reduce income from tickets, merch, food etc?

It just feels like all that momentum and happy feeling in the camp is being thrown on the bonfire.

When things are going well, its easy to think that our owners have changed.
The bonfire of happiness is all the evidence we need that they have not.
We can only hope they are able to sell us at the 'top of the cycle', (now) because if they don't, we are in for another tour of the lower leagues while they charge us high interest rates with no incentive to sell.

 

[Paxman II]

But has MR's still got some budget left over from previous season? I'm sure they kept some back in the pot? Yes a sale of Hyam would be helpful and a good season ahead may or may not bring a promotion opportunity. Frustrating as it is having played games behind schedule, they are pro footballers and should be ready when asked. The first 3 games were all winnable tbh but we made mistakes (indivdual mistakes) that cost us. We are a good side and have goal scorers. I'm still very hopeful of a great season. There will be some bumper crowds to help out too in the financial area. Doom and gloom is not a good recipe for success and not all is rosey in anyones club bar a few...

 

[Grendel]

And put back £1.6m in 2020 ?

A loan or an investment?

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Blackburn Rovers transfer move for Coventry City star potentially in doubt as barrier emerges

Blackburn Rovers' move for Coventry City centre-back Dominic Hyam will depend on Ben Brereton-Diaz being sold during this window, according to an update from Alan Nixon.

footballleagueworld.co.uk

As disappointing as the entire situation is, from a cashflow perspective it's probably more of a worrying prospect if the club are unable to sell Hyam, and potentially one other.

 

[Tommo1993]

Seems a really daft situation. Have we accepted a bid subject to another club’s incomplete business?

 

[robbiekeane]

Seems a really daft situation. Have we accepted a bid subject to another club’s incomplete business?

Nothings agreed until everything’s agreed

 

[Tommo1993]

Nothings agreed until everything’s agreed

It was CCFC saying the club has accepted a bid that’s made it look a bit laughable on our side.

 

[usskyblue]

It was CCFC saying the club has accepted a bid that’s made it look a bit laughable on our side.

Surely Blackburn shouldn’t have submitted a bid if they don’t have the fucking money..

This is ripe for a Tesco analogy m8

 

[ceetee]

In some ways I guess there's a selling chain, just like with houses. I'm sure you all expect Robins to have tentative deals on the go in anticipation of people leaving. I'm not sure what people are moaning about

 

[Tommo1993]

Surely Blackburn shouldn’t have submitted a bid if they don’t have the fucking money..

This is ripe for a Tesco analogy m8

I won’t lie, those Tesco analogies were beginning to blow my mind.

 

[Frostie]

I'm not sure about the Hyam deal being dependent on the Brereton-Diaz sale.

From what I understand the bid was made & accepted & Hyam actually travelled up to Blackburn yesterday. If the Brereton-Diaz deal was imminent he almost certainly wouldn't have played for Blackburn yesterday, doesn't quite stack up to me.
I think like the original reporting of the transfer offer, the journos are a bit behind the timings on this one.

 

[skyblu3sk]

So a football club is run like a grocery store? Hahahahaha. Got to be one of the best ever on here. Just like when you asked if we could sign female players!! Hahahahaha. What a fool.

No but it is a business and there will be a turn over of people before contracts run out. I know it's a complex metaphor don't worry you're little bonnet about it. Away from that we are a selling club to make ends meet we all know it and we definitely can't afford anyone to run down a contract.

 

[Grendel]

No but it is a business and there will be a turn over of people before contracts run out. I know it's a complex metaphor don't worry you're little bonnet about it. Away from that we are a selling club to make ends meet we all know it and we definitely can't afford anyone to run down a contract.

Hyam is contracted to June 2024

 

[skyblu3sk]

Hyam is contracted to June 2024

But we have to sell to make ends meet in this case. We didn't sell the players we wanted to so fell down the stack until someone was wanted. I think we all know Hamer was the main chap they wanted to move on.

 

[better days]

As disappointing as the entire situation is, from a cashflow perspective it's probably more of a worrying prospect if the club are unable to sell Hyam, and potentially one other.

Brereton-Diaz will be sold
Several clubs are interested
Blackburn want to get as much as they can for him so they are encouraging a bidding war