fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
This is where the bondholders dropping the ball may be to their detriment
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (111 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alkhen
- Start date
- Status
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
No idea. Couldn't even tell you where they are in the table. Why don't you ask those from here that visited their site well after we last played them last season?
It is idiotic comments like this that keeps me away from commenting on here. As you well know my wife has cancer and when I can't be in France with her and look after my children I am on the phone to her for hours each day trying to keep her together.
But thanks for thinking about me.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Derek Richardson
duffer
Well-Known Member
The problem is that the bondholders don't have direct rights, everything goes through the trustee... who was originally appointed by Wasps and seems remarkably reluctant to take any action.
If SISU pulled this kind of crap, the local media would be all over it. Wasps, for reasons that are entirely opaque to me, seem to get away with it.
Gynnsthetonic
Well-Known Member
And we know what our local media are like, say what you like about Gilbert but he does do some digging and report on it
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Fucking hell. I didn’t know that at all. My deepest wishes to you on that. Come on.
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
Wasps on brink of deal to repay multimillion-pound debts | TheBusinessDesk.com
Bondholders are owed £35m
www.thebusinessdesk.com
Article published today - headline sounds more positive than the detail in the article.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
"Wasps have said they are close to a deal", didn't need to read past the first line, they've been claiming any day now for months.Wasps on brink of deal to repay multimillion-pound debts | TheBusinessDesk.com
Bondholders are owed £35mwww.thebusinessdesk.com
Article published today - headline sounds more positive than the detail in the article.
Wasps on brink of deal to repay multimillion-pound debts | TheBusinessDesk.com
Bondholders are owed £35mwww.thebusinessdesk.com
Article published today - headline sounds more positive than the detail in the article.
That was Sep 5th
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
My bad
MusicDating
Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
From the DT article on Worcs, saying they're likely to be relegated. The administrator expects their appeal on Covid grounds to be rejected by the RFU...
Even were a takeover to be completed in time for Worcester to see out the season, Palmer expected the Rugby Football Union to relegate them anyway at the end of the campaign.
Palmer had lobbied the RFU not to impose the sanction designed to punish clubs that enter administration, asking them to invoke a no-fault clause covering insolvencies triggered by the coronavirus crisis.
“We put in our appeal, as we were required to, within 24 hours,” she said.
“The RFU’s response to that appears to be – but not fully confirmed – that we’re on very thin ground in terms of that appeal.”
Even were a takeover to be completed in time for Worcester to see out the season, Palmer expected the Rugby Football Union to relegate them anyway at the end of the campaign.
Palmer had lobbied the RFU not to impose the sanction designed to punish clubs that enter administration, asking them to invoke a no-fault clause covering insolvencies triggered by the coronavirus crisis.
“We put in our appeal, as we were required to, within 24 hours,” she said.
“The RFU’s response to that appears to be – but not fully confirmed – that we’re on very thin ground in terms of that appeal.”
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Worcester could be an issue for Wasps. If a new owners comes in and thinks they have been treated differently to Wasps by the RFU they might consider taking legal action. Not sure the RFU will be keen on leaving themselves open to that.
Otis
Well-Known Member
I didn't know either. Best wishes for you and your wife, Astute.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Browsing the Web whilst on the phone. Been announced that all players and staff at Worcester are having their contracts cancelled and are free to sign elsewhere
So how much longer can Wasps kick the can down the road?
Worcester Warriors: WRFC Players Ltd wound up in High Court
WRFC Players Ltd, the payroll arm of Worcester Warriors, is wound up in the High Court in London over money owed to HMRC.
www.bbc.co.uk
So how much longer can Wasps kick the can down the road?
steve cooper
Well-Known Member
Wasps on brink of deal to repay multimillion-pound debts | TheBusinessDesk.com
Bondholders are owed £35mwww.thebusinessdesk.com
Article published today - headline sounds more positive than the detail in the article.
Just goes to show though to take anything said with a massive pinch of salt.
This is an article from a couple of weeks ago with similarly positive headline.
Wasps tipped for ‘bright future’ despite financial crisis threatening club
Wasps filed a notice of their intention to appoint an administrator with the High Court.
www.independent.co.uk
duffer
Well-Known Member
I didn't know either. Best wishes for you and your wife, Astute.
Just to second that, I'm sure everyone here would wish you the best, Astute, it sounds like you're really going through it.
We might differ over football, (and rugby, politics, accountancy, and law for that matter!*), but we're still all fans together at the end of the day. If there's anything you need I'll bet there's someone hereabouts who'll be willing to help - just ask mate.
(*and music, this lot just have the worst taste in music)
duffer
Well-Known Member
Browsing the Web whilst on the phone. Been announced that all players and staff at Worcester are having their contracts cancelled and are free to sign elsewhere
Worcester Warriors: WRFC Players Ltd wound up in High Court
WRFC Players Ltd, the payroll arm of Worcester Warriors, is wound up in the High Court in London over money owed to HMRC.www.bbc.co.uk
So how much longer can Wasps kick the can down the road?
I'm going to guess another 10 working days at the most, then HMRC are going to get their kicking boots on and put a stop to it even if no one else does.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I'm amazed the trustee hasn't done anything for the bondholders.
You'd think they'd be all set up with something for this sort of the event but they've done fuck all and left it to the bondholders to set up a Facebook group.
You'd think they'd be all set up with something for this sort of the event but they've done fuck all and left it to the bondholders to set up a Facebook group.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Every six months, from memory, so I think mid to late November (bonds were issued in May iirc).
Nick
Administrator
What is the relationship between Trustee and Wasps?
duffer
Well-Known Member
The trustee was appointed by Wasps when the bonds were issued, notionally to represent the interests of the bondholders.
It's starting to look like that system is somewhat flawed, as what it really does is mean that the bondholders can't take action other than through the trustee.
3.25% every six months
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
6.5% annual rate payable twice a year. So effectively 3.25% every 6 months.
steve cooper
Well-Known Member
Still a ridiculously high rate. During the time the bond has been in issue there have been times when it was a struggle to get 1%
Obviously it reflected the risk, as all investments do.
duffer
Well-Known Member
It's probably not looking like such a good return now though. And given what's gone on and where interest rates currently are, what rate would bondholders need to be offered to extend? Double and then some, I'd venture.
How could Wasps afford to pay interest at (say) 13% per annum on 35million. That's £4.5 million just in interest.
If they can get out of this one it'll make those 'A-Team' escapes look realistic.
How could Wasps afford to pay interest at (say) 13% per annum on 35million. That's £4.5 million just in interest.
If they can get out of this one it'll make those 'A-Team' escapes look realistic.
MusicDating
Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
Yup, the timing couldn't have come at a worst time for Wasps (they might have got away with it in May!) and I really can't see how they can avoid admin. Even posters on Onceawasp are starting to realise that.It's probably not looking like such a good return now though. And given what's gone on and where interest rates currently are, what rate would bondholders need to be offered to extend? Double and then some, I'd venture.
How could Wasps afford to pay interest at (say) 13% per annum on 35million. That's £4.5 million just in interest.
If they can get out of this one it'll make those 'A-Team' escapes look realistic.
I've no doubt Wasps continued to issue optimistic statements since the default so that the Trustees could justify not taking any action.
What happens in the event of a forfeiture is too opaque for me to understand but does point towards the courts to decide and I've very glad I'm not a bondholder...
Calista
Well-Known Member
I still suspect Wasps will find a way to hang around, but let’s imagine they are gone. I want to believe CCFC might gain – but how exactly, apart from a flatter pitch?
The web of companies is way beyond me. Who would be calling the shots if Wasps were out of the equation? Would Sisu be looking to get the 250 year lease, or would they go back to their old demands for the unencumbered freehold with all the contracts paid off? Would they treat CCFC any differently to the way they do now? They aren’t showing any interest in the Premier League, but would that change? Would we be any more attractive to a new owner, or would the debts and the costs of owning the white elephant still be prohibitive?
The web of companies is way beyond me. Who would be calling the shots if Wasps were out of the equation? Would Sisu be looking to get the 250 year lease, or would they go back to their old demands for the unencumbered freehold with all the contracts paid off? Would they treat CCFC any differently to the way they do now? They aren’t showing any interest in the Premier League, but would that change? Would we be any more attractive to a new owner, or would the debts and the costs of owning the white elephant still be prohibitive?
duffer
Well-Known Member
As I understand it, it's controlled by the FCA and you need stuff like a draft bond prospectus that meets with their approval.
Given the current bond is supposed to have redeemed in May, and all of the confusion around administration, I can't see the FCA relisting it.
That's because I also can't see how the current prospectus can be seen to apply and that the bonds themselves are now technically in default.
In short, I can't see it happening.
The only way I see the bondholders getting paid is a new investor clearing the debt, possibly by offering a haircut, or the bondholders forcing the sale of the lease and any other assets held by Wasps/ACL.
Thinking it through further, the problem with offering a haircut is that they'd have to get a certain proportion to agree, and I don't think that's going to be easy in the amount of time Wasps have left; especially now that the administration clock is ticking.
Unless there's genuinely someone out there with a lot of money to throw at Wasps, £40-50m, then I can't see any way they avoid administration. Just my personal opinion though, obviously.
- Status