Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alkhen
- Start date
- Status
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Gosh there’s hundreds on here who would try and convince her.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Listen I’ll do whatever it takes to get this deal over the line!
SHUNT31
Well-Known Member
If they hadn’t of had another venue 20 miles up the road, I would agree.
I agree with your last point to an extent but to make it profitable is a different story. The fact still remains, we must own our own ground.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
We will 100% never own the ground. Best to hope for was always a friendly parent company owned by the same people.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
For sale, 1 brown overall........
I'm not so sure, if you had a football nut owner why wouldn't you package the ground under CCFC?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Because for a variety of reasons you keep your businesses separate, especially property assets. Sisu have said outright any ground would be owned by a prop co.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I'm not really seeing why to be honest. There's plenty of companies similar to the NEC Group around the world that own and operate stadiums that have sports teams as anchor tenants and it doesn't seem to be an issue. Why would it be for us?
What are people expecting the NEC to do? They would have an anchor tenant whose name they can trade off who brings in hundreds of thousands of visitors a year to their venue. A venue that would otherwise be sat empty unless you think they're going to bulldoze the stadium.
I don't see anything crazy like putting a roof on the stadium bowl happening, it would cost a fortune and not really drive any additional business to the group. For larger events they have the NEC. Would they really invest in a roof for the very rare occasion they could persuade a stadium filling act to play in the winter? Touring schedules aren't going to be ripped up because there's one venue in the midlands with a roof. Stadium filling acts tour Europe in the summer for obvious reasons. A night at the stadium is only really equivalent to 2 nights at the NEC, I don't see the return on investment for something like that.
SHUNT31
Well-Known Member
Right but the same principle applies.
CCFC would effectively be owners, albeit under a different entity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I'm no expert but I can't see any potential owner wanting to lose 500k footfall to the complex.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Where’s DR and why stay in Coventry? Very strange
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Depends how ownership is structured. Could just two Sisu/Mike Ashley companies.
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
So SISU, your wish has come true, and Wasps are no more...the ball is in your court now...what are you going to do about it ?
After all the shit you've put us through, i do hope you have a sound plan ready, and not a wishy washy psuedo promise like 'the new stadium'.
After all the shit you've put us through, i do hope you have a sound plan ready, and not a wishy washy psuedo promise like 'the new stadium'.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
he's talking bollocks as per standard
duffer
Well-Known Member
So just joining the dots here from the bond prospectus, to see where the council comes in etc..
Wasps Holdings (now in admin) are the 100% owners of ACL.
ACL (not in admin) are the 100% owners of ACL2006.
ACL2006 (not in admin) are the holders of the head lease (250-years).
Wasps Holdings and ACL are guarantors for the debt owed to the bondholders (i.e. they are liable for the £35m).
Key point: Bondholders security includes a legal mortgage granted by ACL and ACL2006 over their title to the Arena in Coventry. A mortgage, in effect, is a transfer of legal title. (Until you pay your mortgage off, the bank owns your house, so presumably, until the bondholders are paid, the trustee owns the Arena?)
CCC have reserved the right to forfeit the Head Lease if ACL2006 becomes insolvent, but ACL2006 is not in administration yet. Additionally, because of the mortgage I don't think claiming back the lease would be without challenge when or if administration of ACL2006 happens.
So, I think the bondholders (or in fact their trustee) will demand the sale of the lease to settle their £35m, or possibly of ACL/ACL2006 in total. Unless the council buy it (please God, no), I don't see how it ends up back in CCC hands.
More to the point, I definitely can't see any way that Wasps are ever our landlords again - and I don't think they'll be playing again in Coventry any time soon. If nothing else, that is a result.
Wasps Holdings (now in admin) are the 100% owners of ACL.
ACL (not in admin) are the 100% owners of ACL2006.
ACL2006 (not in admin) are the holders of the head lease (250-years).
Wasps Holdings and ACL are guarantors for the debt owed to the bondholders (i.e. they are liable for the £35m).
Key point: Bondholders security includes a legal mortgage granted by ACL and ACL2006 over their title to the Arena in Coventry. A mortgage, in effect, is a transfer of legal title. (Until you pay your mortgage off, the bank owns your house, so presumably, until the bondholders are paid, the trustee owns the Arena?)
CCC have reserved the right to forfeit the Head Lease if ACL2006 becomes insolvent, but ACL2006 is not in administration yet. Additionally, because of the mortgage I don't think claiming back the lease would be without challenge when or if administration of ACL2006 happens.
So, I think the bondholders (or in fact their trustee) will demand the sale of the lease to settle their £35m, or possibly of ACL/ACL2006 in total. Unless the council buy it (please God, no), I don't see how it ends up back in CCC hands.
More to the point, I definitely can't see any way that Wasps are ever our landlords again - and I don't think they'll be playing again in Coventry any time soon. If nothing else, that is a result.
SHUNT31
Well-Known Member
Of course but without the football club the complex would be worth significantly less.
There will always be covenants in place regarding the use etc which would protect the football club so I wouldn’t be opposed to it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nick
Administrator
The issue is, I don't think it's worth the £35 million that they are owed. Hence finance couldn't be raised.So just joining the dots here from the bond prospectus, to see where the council comes in etc..
Wasps Holdings (now in admin) are the 100% owners of ACL.
ACL (not in admin) are the 100% owners of ACL2006.
ACL2006 (not in admin) are the holders of the head lease (250-years).
Wasps Holdings and ACL are guarantors for the debt owed to the bondholders (i.e. they are liable for the £35m).
Key point: Bondholders security includes a legal mortgage granted by ACL and ACL2006 over their title to the Arena in Coventry. A mortgage, in effect, is a transfer of legal title. (Until you pay your mortgage off, the bank owns your house, so presumably, until the bondholders are paid, the trustee owns the Arena?)
CCC have reserved the right to forfeit the Head Lease if ACL2006 becomes insolvent, but ACL2006 is not in administration yet. Additionally, because of the mortgage I don't think claiming back the lease would be without challenge when or if administration of ACL2006 happens.
So, I think the bondholders (or in fact their trustee) will demand the sale of the lease to settle their £35m, or possibly of ACL/ACL2006 in total. Unless the council buy it (please God, no), I don't see how it ends up back in CCC hands.
More to the point, I definitely can't see any way that Wasps are ever our landlords again - and I don't think they'll be playing again in Coventry any time soon. If nothing else, that is a result.
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
I joined the wasps Facebook page last week to keep an eye on any potential developments that might come up…
just left the group, as there is far too much bleating and crying going on now. Facebook asked the reason for leaving. The option I chose was “No longer relevant”. Somehow that made me feel even better
just left the group, as there is far too much bleating and crying going on now. Facebook asked the reason for leaving. The option I chose was “No longer relevant”. Somehow that made me feel even better
RegTheDonk
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input and a large pint to your friend.
SISU really need to make a decision now, if indeed Ashley does come forward, and set a reasonable price to offload the club. If the NEC get the stadium, they'll have the clout to see things through, not much chance of distressing them and we'll forever be stuck as tennants if we want to stay at the CBS.
Get the Elvis LPs out Joy, its' now or never.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Nooooooo
JAM See
Well-Known Member
I am such a boring c**t.
Skim reading this thread and that's what my brain clicked on.
Sorry.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Might well not be worth the £35m, Nick, but the bondholders will want to recover what they can for it. Hence it inevitably being sold to someone, and us getting new landlords.
As said many times elsewhere, imagine if someone came in now, bought us and the stadium and tied it all back together (even as OpCo/PropCo).
Then, with someone half-decent running the stadium, the club isn't reliant solely on a benevolent owner for income - and there's wriggle room for FFP (if that actually becomes a real thing).
It's a dream, I know, but it is within the realms of possibility for a few weeks at least.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Who's this fucking fanny?
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
OrSo just joining the dots here from the bond prospectus, to see where the council comes in etc..
Wasps Holdings (now in admin) are the 100% owners of ACL.
ACL (not in admin) are the 100% owners of ACL2006.
ACL2006 (not in admin) are the holders of the head lease (250-years).
Wasps Holdings and ACL are guarantors for the debt owed to the bondholders (i.e. they are liable for the £35m).
Key point: Bondholders security includes a legal mortgage granted by ACL and ACL2006 over their title to the Arena in Coventry. A mortgage, in effect, is a transfer of legal title. (Until you pay your mortgage off, the bank owns your house, so presumably, until the bondholders are paid, the trustee owns the Arena?)
CCC have reserved the right to forfeit the Head Lease if ACL2006 becomes insolvent, but ACL2006 is not in administration yet. Additionally, because of the mortgage I don't think claiming back the lease would be without challenge when or if administration of ACL2006 happens.
So, I think the bondholders (or in fact their trustee) will demand the sale of the lease to settle their £35m, or possibly of ACL/ACL2006 in total. Unless the council buy it (please God, no), I don't see how it ends up back in CCC hands.
More to the point, I definitely can't see any way that Wasps are ever our landlords again - and I don't think they'll be playing again in Coventry any time soon. If nothing else, that is a result.
skyblueeyesrevisited
Well-Known Member
Just reading Stephen Vaughan’s comments how they had some many talented people at Wasps. Shame none of them were any good at finance……. bit like Liz Truss and her friend
duffer
Well-Known Member
Ah, I think that some of them were plenty good at finance, but only for themselves!
If the owner wasn't SISU though they may choose to do something different especially if they wanted the club to have more to spend against the FFP cap.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
2014
2015
2021
2022
2015
2021
2022
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
I'm going to say it. Not a lot of thought went into the 'people' when uprooting a sporting team and placing them in a city 80 miles away.
Here's one of the petitions from Wasps supporters at that time.
Sign Petition: Keep Wasps RFC in/around London
Wasps RFC (formerly London Wasps) has been based in/around London since its inception in 1867. However, recent rumours have linked (2970 signatures on petition)
www.thepetitionsite.com
#AllAboutTheMoney
hill83
Well-Known Member
My understanding and I happy to be corrected but due to the considerable work required the stadium is not valued at £35m anymore?Might well not be worth the £35m, Nick, but the bondholders will want to recover what they can for it. Hence it inevitably being sold to someone, and us getting new landlords.
As said many times elsewhere, imagine if someone came in now, bought us and the stadium and tied it all back together (even as OpCo/PropCo).
Then, with someone half-decent running the stadium, the club isn't reliant solely on a benevolent owner for income - and there's wriggle room for FFP (if that actually becomes a real thing).
It's a dream, I know, but it is within the realms of possibility for a few weeks at least.
duffer
Well-Known Member
I think we're about find out - it's that old saying about it's worth what someone will pay for it.
In fairness, it's not just the bricks and mortar, it's also the lease for the Casino and the Hotel etc.., so there's some money in that somewhere you'd fancy. I couldn't even guess what it will realise though.
- Status