Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (138 Viewers)

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D

Deleted member 5849

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Esoterica said:
Sisu being difficult to work with is just a myth perpetuated by the PR machine at the time, to make us try and believe that the issue was all on SISUs side. And that has started unravelling in recent weeks.
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Well, they can be difficult to work with, let's be honest. It's not just CCC either, they've been a nightmare in other ventures elsewhere too.

That doesn't automatically preclude them however, as there are examples where that isn't the case. But let's not pretend they're always sweetness and light!

The best argument is that any disputes have not been with people they've been in partnership with - it's been people and organisations with competing needs and interests.
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The Philosopher

The Philosopher

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As Iā€™ve said before, those that think Joy / SISU cannot raise serious funds need to try Sober October.

Similarly, of course SISU want to 100% control the Arena, the investments in club and stadium are worth more than the sum of their parts.

Money, to a Hedge fund is just a cost, a ROI is required to service the debt. The non-football revenue will partly do that, the football rent revenue will cover the rest (they will keep the two notionally separate).

Of course SISU will be at the table and have enough potential clout to ensure that a rival bidder wonā€™t get anything on the cheap.

They also have a 10 year lease and donā€™t have (as we have seen, although not as they wanted) any hesitation in being litigious. The council lease will be scrutinised by SISUā€™s legal team and phrases such as ā€œinsolvency eventā€ could be pivotal.
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jordan210

jordan210

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Skyblueweeman said:
I think you're right.

I seem to recall something about their own accounts 'trending in the right direction' but those figures were influenced by the CVC money so take that out and they weren't so rosy.
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I found this site that shows a graph of ACL 2006 finances. quite interesting

also shows the accounts are 210 days over due

ACL Astute 2006 Limited - Company Profile - Endole

ACL Astute 2006 Limited is a insolvency company located in Bristol, Bristol. View company profile, shareholders, contacts, financials, industry and description.
suite.endole.co.uk suite.endole.co.uk

Even more interesting for ACL

ACL Astute 2022 Limited - Company Profile - Endole

ACL Astute 2022 Limited is a in administration company located in Bristol, Bristol. View company profile, shareholders, contacts, financials, industry and description.
suite.endole.co.uk suite.endole.co.uk

is the bond on ACL or ACL2006. looking at the liabilities it looks like ACL
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Nick

Nick

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Esoterica said:
Sisu being difficult to work with is just a myth perpetuated by the PR machine at the time, to make us try and believe that the issue was all on SISUs side. And that has started unraveling in recent weeks.

Blues, Northampton, Burton, the EFL, Dhillons, Hummel, Allsop&Allsop, the taxman, player wages, Stewards, the police - just a few different examples from various avenues that go into running a football club where we've never heard of any issues at all.
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I pointed this out to a wasps fan, he couldn't grasp it when I pointed out how many people wasps had fucked over in comparison.
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Brylowes

Brylowes

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Nick said:
The thing is though, wasps and the council have a much worse history.
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This is true but Wasps for all ā€˜intents and purposeā€™ are now history, out of sight out of mind.
Councils by there very nature/structure tend to be a very transient operation, relations between SISU and key members of CCC were clearly toxic and had probably reached a point of no return, but in the years that have past the Council personnel has likely changed beyond recognition.
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Covkid1968#

Covkid1968#

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rhino1002 said:
Likewise
my uncle used to manage them and got them promoted back to the first division in 1938
I've never understood the manufactured rivalry with Villa as they don't give a stuff about us
when i started supporting City in the 1960s our main rival was wolves not villa but they didn't consider us a rival they were rivals with west brom and still are
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It was Leics in the early to mid eighties so it was odd changing to Villa. Still didnā€™t stop me getting arrested on Swan lane against them and missing out on football for 2 years. !!!
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Nick

Nick

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Brylowes said:
This is true but Wasps for all ā€˜intents and purposeā€™ are now history, out of sight out of mind.
Councils by there very nature/structure tend to be a very transient operation, relations between SISU and key members of CCC were clearly toxic and had probably reached a point of no return, but in the years that have past the Council personnel has likely changed beyond recognition.
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Not really. Look at the CEO for example.
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Grendel

Grendel

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Anne Lucas is mainly responsible for driving the deal through with Mutton. She was ultimately responsible.

www.coventrytelegraph.net

Ann Lucas: Wasps deal best for Coventry as a whole

But Coventry City Council leader apologises to Coventry Rugby Club officials who felt they were not consulted enough
www.coventrytelegraph.net www.coventrytelegraph.net
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Brylowes

Brylowes

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Nick said:
Not really. Look at the CEO for example.
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A lot of them will have changed tho Nick, not only that, but I donā€™t think a group of Councillors would harbour the same level of loyalties, as compared to say ā€˜a company board.
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tisza

tisza

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Deleted member 5849 said:
Not that I want to defend them too much, because there are some obvious examples, and not just vs CCC... but they have, as far as I'm aware, always been professional with other clubs on both transfers and also ground rentals, have always paid the tax bill fully, and generally conduct themselves fairly honourably elsewhere. The partnership with Hummel also goes OK, I think?

So I think they'd be OK, if (if!) they could reach a deal on partnership.
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tbf most of these are straightforward customer / client relationships rather than partnerships. This new proposed relationship would be like the ACL where SISU's history with previous partners (CCC & Higgs) was rocky and ultimately litigious.
SISU's persistence with various legal actions (ultimately unsuccessful) isn't a great look for a new partner.
SISU's mantra when they came in was they had to have 100% of a business because of the conditions of their investment processes.
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Nick

Nick

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tisza said:
tbf most of these are straightforward customer / client relationships rather than partnerships. This new proposed relationship would be like the ACL where SISU's history with previous partners (CCC & Higgs) was rocky and ultimately litigious.
SISU's persistence with various legal actions (ultimately unsuccessful) isn't a great look for a new partner.
SISU's mantra when they came in was they had to have 100% of a business because of the conditions of their investment processes.
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They were client customer relationships too.

Ccc and higgs are hardly strangers to court cases themselves
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S

steve cooper

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Assuming admin happens, and there are multiple interested parties, I assume it will be an auction with sealed bids. Will be a couple of weeks before we know anything
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MalcSB

MalcSB

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Weā€™re CCC and Higgs ever actually partners with SISU? Wasnā€™t it a commercial arrangement involving payment of rent at a level unaffordable below the Premiership and without access to other match day revenues?
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D

Deleted member 5849

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tisza said:
tbf most of these are straightforward customer / client relationships rather than partnerships. This new proposed relationship would be like the ACL where SISU's history with previous partners (CCC & Higgs) was rocky and ultimately litigious.
SISU's persistence with various legal actions (ultimately unsuccessful) isn't a great look for a new partner.
SISU's mantra when they came in was they had to have 100% of a business because of the conditions of their investment processes.
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I wouldn't class CCC and Higgs as partners, we gave up that relationship when signing away our share in ACL to Higgs.

It's still damning SISU with faint praise, and I agree that those relationships have not been good. But, there's probably enough not to be a red flag.

Of more interest to future partners would probably be our partnership (or not!) with Warwick University, and how that's played / playing out...
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Brylowes

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
They seem very loyal
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But their stock will rise or fall on the decisions they make, if SISU present a plan that safeguards the arenaā€™s future, gives CCFC a permanent home and the opportunity to grow and prosper and at the same time gives the Council a satisfactory resolution to what has been a long painful process for all concerned Iā€™m pretty sure theyā€™ll take it.
For them to reject it on the grounds of previous experiences, would almost certainly set off another chain of events resulting in yet more years of acrimony, court proceedings and hardship all round, almost certainly producing no winners.
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