Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (32 Viewers)

[ajsccfc]

Indubitably.

 

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[Tommo1993]

 

[The Philosopher]

Some people believe CCC weren’t 100% above board in bringing the Wasps in to buy a stadium built on the back (to a large degree) of CCFC.

I’m trying to look at other reasons why.

This whole saga has brought us to a point of change, either for better or worse.

The background squeaking of chimps isn’t important. Crack on - do your worst.

 

[Grendel]

I used to think you had a modicum of sense and you continue to disappoint

RICOH DEAL: MP Geoffrey Robinson could lose £250k in stadium rent row

COVENTRY MP and former Sky Blues chairman Geoffrey Robinson could stand to lose £250,000 if the club does not pay its Ricoh stadium rent debts.

www.coventrytelegraph.net

Of course he would ask for a change of rental agreements.

It Was 6 months after the club moved in

 

[The Philosopher]

It Was 6 months after the club moved in

I don’t see your point.

That GR had guarantees legally for the rent is relevant.

That the council did what they did is why we are here.

 

[Grendel]

I don’t see your point.

That GR had guarantees legally for the rent is relevant.

That the council did what they did is why we are here.

you stated the council were supportive until some bizarre notion Robinson turned them against the club

the only time we know he tried to get help - years before - they said no.

 

[shmmeee]

I don’t see your point.

That GR had guarantees legally for the rent is relevant.

That the council did what they did is why we are here.

Have you read the article you posted?

 

[The Philosopher]

you stated the council were supportive until some bizarre notion Robinson turned them against the club

the only time we know he tried to get help - years before - they said no.

I stated that SISU had a chance - not that they were supportive.

GR was of course bitter at losing his money.

 

[The Philosopher]

Have you read the article you posted?

Yes.

Where’s the issue?

 

[shmmeee]

Yes.

Where’s the issue?

Which bit gave you the impression CCC and GR were on the same side there?

 

[The Philosopher]

Which bit gave you the impression CCC and GR were on the same side there?

At that point (2013):

Non-paying SISU / CCFC had left GR acting as rent guarantor.

The council took on the debt and in effect the need for ACL to enforce guarantees against GR which a liquidator of ACL may well have done otherwise.

 

[Mcbean]

Callipygian !

 

[robbiethemole]

It’s this article, right?

Sky Blues face bleak future

THE future looks bleak for Coventry City Football Club.

www.coventrytelegraph.net

Not arguing - KT called the offer derisory and GR would not have had a penny back.

It is interesting that not long after, it appears GR agreed to a deal that seemingly secured his millions which the council seemed to then support. It ties in my mind with Labour elected politicians looking out for each other.

Who this Coventry schoolboy “Gary Hopkins” is is a mystery

(satire - it’s Hoffman)

In the end it appears that the £15 million turned down as derisory ended up being £7m to clear the back and poor GR’s money later being lost in admin. (I know it’s not as straightforward but in any case)

Maybe the deal that at the time shafted GR but secured CCFC in the arena in a longer lease was better for CCFC than SISU.

Who knows…

Gary Hopkins is a real person who was genuinely looking at buying the Club, and was offering around £19m which at the time was the asking price, £10m for the Club and £9m to clear the Council loan. The Council decided to ask for more, around £3m on top and Gary and his backers didn’t want to give it them, so pulled out.
I know all this as I met him, he is the brother of one of my old contacts.

 

[The Philosopher]

Gary Hopkins is a real person who was genuinely looking at buying the Club, and was offering around £19m which at the time was the asking price, £10m for the Club and £9m to clear the Council loan. The Council decided to ask for more, around £3m on top and Gary and his backers didn’t want to give it them, so pulled out.
I know all this as I met him, he is the brother of one of my old contacts.

Things could have been so different.

That bit had passed me by - too many former Coventry schoolboys called Gary H wanting to buy in to the club at the time to keep track !

 

[shmmeee]

At that point (2013):

Non-paying SISU / CCFC had left GR acting as rent guarantor.

The council took on the debt and in effect the need for ACL to enforce guarantees against GR which a liquidator of ACL may well have done otherwise.

The entire article is GR slating the approach CCC were taking and saying the club should have at least half the stadium and the council should piss off. He’s asking the council to ignore his commitment because he’s already written £20m off to Sisu.

 

[skybluetony176]

This thread is on Rocky ground

 

[Liquid Gold]

I love going over old ground as much as the next bloke but its tedious as fuck wading through it all to see if anything has progressed.

I want to know what is going on with the arena, Mike Ashley and the club right now. I don't give a shit about 10-15-20 years ago at the moment.

 

[Nick]

Interesting. Wonder if they will ever find out how much they are losing.

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

The whole historical thread of the past 20 years has led us to this place is like reliving a nightmare.

IMO MR should be considered for sainthood for somehow managing to develop the playing side of the club from being a total systemic failure.

I'm no fan of CCC, but looking at CCC's input into the current potential sale of the CBS. I can understand why a MA deal would be agreeable to them......reasoning he has a track record of implementing business plans! CCC would like to see more jobs and infrastructure brought to the city - it generates council tax and help SME's to grow. MA seems more likely to build around the arena.

SISU in comparison have been talking about building a stadium for years now with no action.
So, if you were a CC Councillor who do you think is the best bet to build something to grow the cities economy? It's a no brainer!

 

[The Philosopher]

The entire article is GR slating the approach CCC were taking and saying the club should have at least half the stadium and the council should piss off. He’s asking the council to ignore his commitment because he’s already written £20m off to Sisu.

He also states SISU have written off £40m - I’d say they parked that elsewhere not wrote off.

He’s not going to say “thanks CCC for doing a deal to save me some more money” - doesn’t read well with the voters, which ultimately…..

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

Interesting. Wonder if they will ever find out how much they are losing. View attachment 27165

Looks like Ashley is paying less that £35M

 

[shmmeee]

He also states SISU have written off £40m - I’d say they parked that elsewhere not wrote off.

He’s not going to say “thanks CCC for doing a deal to save me some more money” - doesn’t read well with the voters, which ultimately…..

What voters? What are you on about?

 

[robbiethemole]

The thing is, at the time we were only going into admin, not liquidation and there were multiple bidders, so how did SISU become the preferred choice of CCC if their bid was lowest, and when did it all go wrong?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The thing is, at the time we were only going into admin, not liquidation and there were multiple bidders, so how did SISU become the preferred choice of CCC if their bid was lowest, and when did it all go wrong?

They paid off the co-op bank, and they were the ones withdrawing their support. It was the co-opdriving the process.

 

[The Philosopher]

The thing is, at the time we were only going into admin, not liquidation and there were multiple bidders, so how did SISU become the preferred choice of CCC if their bid was lowest, and when did it all go wrong?

That’s the question.

At the time I believe a deal was done that GR and others would get their money back with SISU upon Prem return.

CCC had no control of the admin at the time - just an interest in the previous JV.

What voters? What are you on about?

FFS.

 

[The Philosopher]

Looks like Ashley is paying less that £35M

Not sure it says that.

 

[shmmeee]

That’s the question.

At the time I believe a deal was done that GR and others would get their money back with SISU upon Prem return.
FFS.

You think GR went to an anti council reporter and slated the council to get votes for the council?

 

[Nick]

Not sure it says that.

It says the bid won't cover the Bondholders investments.

 

[chiefdave]

Interesting. Wonder if they will ever find out how much they are losing. View attachment 27165

More legal action on the way? Although I don't really see how the bondholders can get themselves organised as it seems the trustee refuses to put them in contact with each other.

If I was a bondholder I'd certainly be looking at claims that Ashley had a head start and wonder how hard the administrator had worked to get the best return.

 

[The Philosopher]

It says the bid won't cover the Bondholders investments.

I’m guessing (just guessing) that the Bondholders have a fixed floating charge over all wasp assets.

I’m guessing that this above refers to Wasp rugby stuff (trademark, training equip) not ACL lease, which of course won’t cover £35m (whereas Lease might)

I’m guessing Trustees are retaining charge over lease since that might look like it will and Trustees don’t need to stand in way of other issues.

 

[The Philosopher]

Of course might be wrong.

 

[robbiethemole]

I've quoted it five million times before! I'm not spending my time re-finding the link every time somebody wants it.

But to prove I do actually do this whole evidence thing.

That link is very telling, Shapiro(Gary Hopkins) wanted just what CCC gave Wasps years later, only Wasps never did all the things they promised. MA should ask for the long lease and land, the scrap yard and all round there and we could have a great area by the ground.

I just remembered, didn’t a Chinese group want it to develop an Ice dome and stuff as well?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That link is very telling, Shapiro(Gary Hopkins) wanted just what CCC gave Wasps years later, only Wasps never did all the things they promised. MA should ask for the long lease and land, the scrap yard and all round there and we could have a great area by the ground.

I just remembered, didn’t a Chinese group want it to develop an Ice dome and stuff as well?

Shapiro wasn't Gary Hopkins, Shapiro was a different group.

But yes, also interesting that they wanted everything SISU now want. Certainly shows how the initial plan was high risk, high return basically on the footballing side.

 

[chiefdave]

Shapiro wasn't Gary Hopkins, Shapiro was a different group.

But yes, also interesting that they wanted everything SISU now want. Certainly shows how the initial plan was high risk, high return basically on the footballing side.

Not sure why we're going over all this again but there were 6 bidders weren't there and I seem to recall not all 6 were ever named but we know of Manhattan, Shapiro, Hopkins and SISU.

SISU being the only ones who didn't want stadium ownership and therefore the councils preferred bidder.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Not sure why we're going over all this again but there were 6 bidders weren't there and I seem to recall not all 6 were ever named but we know of Manhattan, Shapiro, Hopkins and SISU.

SISU being the only ones who didn't want stadium ownership and therefore the councils preferred bidder.

Hopkins fronted up the Manhatten Group, who had pulled out by that stage.

SISU only got the club because it suited the Co-op bank to get the club,.