Benjamin Mendy. (4 Viewers)

[wingy]

Jack Grealish could be quizzed as witness in Benjamin Mendy's rape case

MAN City’S Jack Grealish partied with a team-mate who is alleged to have raped a girl just hours later. The £100million star and fellow ace Riyad Mahrez were at a nightclub with Benjamin Mend…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Pretty sinister to be honest

Benjamin Mendy ‘raped several women in panic rooms at his isolated country mansion’ (msn.com)

 

[rob9872]

Guilty as fk but I'd like a yankee on him, Sigurdson, Partey and Greenwood all to bd acquitted. Probably throw Giggs in for a Canadian despite the bkack eyes.

 

[Ian1779]

What’s happened with Sigurdsson - last time I read he was about to join a Turkish club

 

[Nick]

Christ, found not guilty on them all.

 

[Otis]

That's a surprise. It was quite a few women wasn't it? Four I think.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Pep likes him, he'll probably be back playing soon.

The Sigurdsson stuff is weird though. Totally disappeared into the abyss and apparently he was trying to get back to Iceland to clear his name.

Not suggesting it is exactly the same thing, but Gunnarasson has been in exile in Qatar for about 3 years, playing in front of empty stadiums. He was cast off from the national team for a while but think he's back in it now.

 

[Grendel]

Christ, found not guilty on them all.

There will be a retrial in all probability

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Christ, found not guilty on them all.

Some they couldn’t decide so will have another trial

 

[SBAndy]

Pep likes him, he'll probably be back playing soon.

Not sure he does…

 

[Nick]

There will be a retrial in all probability

Ah on 2 of them.

 

[stay_up_skyblues]

Benjamin Mendy found not guilty of six counts of rape

The Manchester City footballer faces a retrial on two counts the jury could not reach verdicts on.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yeah two retrials applied for. Must say I’m surprised, given how long they kept him in custody. Haven’t researched into detail but for a 130 day stint you’d think they had some solid evidence.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I have to say, I thought he would be found guilty. That said, if in a court of law, they find him not guilty then what's the viewpoint? I can see a lot of takes on twitter (I know, I know) who are saying the system is broken and the women haven't got justice, but wouldn't that just be unwarranted outrage?

With the amount of cases against him, if they all end up being thrown out, how can we still demand he goes behind bars? I'm not comfortable with that. As it looks at the moment, some of these women seems like they might have been making stuff up given the cited 'inconsistencies in what they told police', and 'videos of one of the accusers having enthusiastic sex with the person she accused'.

Seems dodgy as fuck.

 

[rob9872]

I have to say, I thought he would be found guilty. That said, if in a court of law, they find him not guilty then what's the viewpoint? I can see a lot of takes on twitter (I know, I know) who are saying the system is broken and the women haven't got justice, but wouldn't that just be unwarranted outrage?

With the amount of cases against him, if they all end up being thrown out, how can we still demand he goes behind bars? I'm not comfortable with that. As it looks at the moment, some of these women seems like they might have been making stuff up given the cited 'inconsistencies in what they told police', and 'videos of one of the accusers having enthusiastic sex with the person she accused'.

Seems dodgy as fuck.

I thought the case would be compelling and I begin to wonder if some been paid off. However, whilst it seems to me like he he's morally bankrupt, that's not enough to convict someone and I agree that whatever our thoughts, if he has been found not guilty we should stand by that decision, it's the basis on all our laws and to set new precedent would be more damaging.

It could yet get more messy if he sues for being on remand or goes after his contract and future earnings based on his time suspended without pay etc, although the threshold for a civil action is much lower, hopefully he might see it as a lucky escape and simply play in a different country.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The burden of proof in a rape case is very high already and the precedent (in relation to a victim's sexual history) set in the Ched Evans case makes it worse. I am not arguing that the burden is too high for the avoidance of doubt.

 

[SBT]

I have to say, I thought he would be found guilty. That said, if in a court of law, they find him not guilty then what's the viewpoint? I can see a lot of takes on twitter (I know, I know) who are saying the system is broken and the women haven't got justice, but wouldn't that just be unwarranted outrage?

With the amount of cases against him, if they all end up being thrown out, how can we still demand he goes behind bars? I'm not comfortable with that. As it looks at the moment, some of these women seems like they might have been making stuff up given the cited 'inconsistencies in what they told police', and 'videos of one of the accusers having enthusiastic sex with the person she accused'.

Seems dodgy as fuck.

I’m not sure that inconsistencies in someone’s story, or evidence of consensual sex taking place, is necessarily proof that something “dodgy” has happened, or that allegations have been out-and-out fabricated. I don’t know all the details though.

I do think that the failure to convict shows that the burden of proof is extremely high in rape cases. As others said, for the CPS to lose on such a high profile case shows you how tough it is.

 

[duffer]

So in broad brush strokes the numbers seem to be along the lines of 1% of rapes reported, and of those reported, 1% end up in convictions.

That doesn't suggest to me that the burden of proof for a conviction is too low. This has been an issue for a very long time.

Why do so few rape cases go to court?

The number of reported rapes making it to court in England and Wales has continued to decline.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

So in broad brush strokes the numbers seem to be along the lines of 1% of rapes reported, and of those reported, 1% end up in convictions.

That doesn't suggest to me that the burden of proof for a conviction is too low. This has been an issue for a very long time.

Why do so few rape cases go to court?

The number of reported rapes making it to court in England and Wales has continued to decline.

www.bbc.co.uk

There's clearly a very low conviction rate for rape, and I do believe the courts in this country have something to answer for on a general basis anyway. At the same time, there is an elephant in the room that people don't want to discuss, and it has a direct link to the burden of proof. How many false claims are there, and how many of these are prosecuted themselves?

I said this on another thread recently and used Sweden as an example. There was a real wave of false accusations going on, and whilst there were granted, other reasons as well, all this does is make the ordeal so much more difficult for the genuine victims of these crimes. It is a hideous thing to have to go through as it is.

 

[SBT]

There's clearly a very low conviction rate for rape, and I do believe the courts in this country have something to answer for on a general basis anyway. At the same time, there is an elephant in the room that people don't want to discuss, and it has a direct link to the burden of proof. How many false claims are there, and how many of these are prosecuted themselves?

I said this on another thread recently and used Sweden as an example. There was a real wave of false accusations going on, and whilst there were granted, other reasons as well, all this does is make the ordeal so much more difficult for the genuine victims of these crimes. It is a hideous thing to have to go through as it is.

False allegations of rape are rare, at least according to the CPS they are. More on it here: Key facts about how the CPS prosecutes allegations of rape | The Crown Prosecution Service

The CPS study showed 35 people prosecuted for falsely alleging rape in one 17-month period, compared to 5651 prosecutions for rape itself.

 

[duffer]

There's clearly a very low conviction rate for rape, and I do believe the courts in this country have something to answer for on a general basis anyway. At the same time, there is an elephant in the room that people don't want to discuss, and it has a direct link to the burden of proof. How many false claims are there, and how many of these are prosecuted themselves?

I said this on another thread recently and used Sweden as an example. There was a real wave of false accusations going on, and whilst there were granted, other reasons as well, all this does is make the ordeal so much more difficult for the genuine victims of these crimes. It is a hideous thing to have to go through as it is.

I hear what you're saying, but given that potentially only one in a thousand rape cases end in conviction, I think I'd be focussing on that area ahead of the false accusations. Both are horrible crimes of course, but the sheer number of victims of one must be an order of magnitude or two greater than the other.

Like you say, it's a hideous ordeal in the UK, proceeding with a rape accusation, presumably hence the low reporting rates.

Given that, why would there suddenly be a wave of intentionally false allegations?

The truth of course, is that there is no evidence in the UK that false allegations are an issue in the same way that sexual violence is. In fact the number of false burglary reports is probably about the same proportionally, but we don't tend to have doubts about the motives of those who claim to have been robbed.

Here’s the truth about false accusations of sexual violence

Why didn’t these women speak up sooner? This was asked time and time again during the recent public furore around sexual harassment, violence and abuse. Underlying the question is a persistent uncertainty about the credibility of victims – a concern with identifying what is true and what is false.

www.open.ac.uk

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

False allegations of rape are rare, at least according to the CPS they are. More on it here: Key facts about how the CPS prosecutes allegations of rape | The Crown Prosecution Service

The CPS study showed 35 people prosecuted for falsely alleging rape in one 17-month period, compared to 5651 prosecutions for rape itself.

They still exist though, that's the point. That file does not account for cases which aren't put in front of the CPS in the first place, and it also says itself that if a case is thrown due to lack of evidence, that it doesn't qualify as a false accusation. I would imagine many of the false accusations do come under that umbrella.

A lot of semantics about something which has a large bearing on the judgment of the crime.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I hear what you're saying, but given that potentially only one in a thousand rape cases end in conviction, I think I'd be focussing on that area ahead of the false accusations. Both are horrible crimes of course, but the sheer number of victims of one must be an order of magnitude or two greater than the other.

Like you say, it's a hideous ordeal in the UK, proceeding with a rape accusation, presumably hence the low reporting rates.

Given that, why would there suddenly be a wave of intentionally false allegations?

The truth of course, is that there is no evidence in the UK that false allegations are an issue in the same way that sexual violence is. In fact the number of false burglary reports is probably about the same proportionally, but we don't tend to have doubts about the motives of those who claim to have been robbed.

Here’s the truth about false accusations of sexual violence

Why didn’t these women speak up sooner? This was asked time and time again during the recent public furore around sexual harassment, violence and abuse. Underlying the question is a persistent uncertainty about the credibility of victims – a concern with identifying what is true and what is false.

www.open.ac.uk

Oh don't get me wrong, I am not saying there are more false accusations than genuine ones, just that the false ones generally get away with it and also have a nasty bearing on the real cases.

If we want to get a higher conviction rate for rape, then I do think there has to be some cracking down on the crying wolf. If there was a serious deterrent there, it would be much easier to filter out the real cases, which is good for everyone. At least that's my opinion on it.

 

[clint van damme]

Retrials are to be held separately, any one know why that is?

 

[SBT]

They still exist though, that's the point. That file does not account for cases which aren't put in front of the CPS in the first place, and it also says itself that if a case is thrown due to lack of evidence, that it doesn't qualify as a false accusation. I would imagine many of the false accusations do come under that umbrella.

A lot of semantics about something which has a large bearing on the judgment of the crime.

Well all I can do is present the numbers from the CPS - of course, there are many rape crimes that also don’t go in front of the courts, or that are thrown out due to lack of evidence etc

The numbers show that legitimate accusations are prosecuted much, much more often than false accusations - that suggests either that legitimate accusations are much more common, or that it’s just much easier to prosecute them. Are you suggesting it’s the latter? And if so, do you think the burden of proof needs to be lowered for claims that a rape allegation is false?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Well all I can do is present the numbers from the CPS - of course, there are many rape crimes that also don’t go in front of the courts, or that are thrown out due to lack of evidence etc

The numbers show that legitimate accusations are prosecuted much, much more often than false accusations - that suggests either that legitimate accusations are much more common, or that it’s just much easier to prosecute them. Are you suggesting it’s the latter? And if so, do you think the burden of proof needs to be lowered for claims that a rape allegation is false?

See my post above; I am not suggesting there are more false accusations than genuine ones.

To prove someone was lying about being raped is also very hard, and as often a victim will know their attacker personally, proving home run lies is going to be difficult. It often comes down to who's word is believed. I would say on your points, legitimate accusations are higher than false ones, but also that legitimate accusations are proved and prosecuted at a higher rate than the false ones.

We can easily get into a tango over the numbers, but there is no question that false accusations do undermine the genuine cases. My opinion is that there are more of these than people think.

 

[SBT]

We can easily get into a tango over the numbers, but there is no question that false accusations do undermine the genuine cases. My opinion is that there are more of these than people think.

Based on what? Are you saying the percentage of claims that are false is actually significantly higher than the stats suggest?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Based on what? Are you saying the percentage of claims that are false is actually significantly higher than the stats suggest?

Yes, I think they are. Based on my own personal experience, which is also actually backed up by the report you shared yourself.

It's a sick world out there which has many despicable people who would commit rape, but it also has many that would accuse one of it too. The latter makes it harder to prosecute the former, and is certainly a factor as to why those conviction rates are so low.

 

[SBT]

Yes, I think they are. Based on my own personal experience, which is also actually backed up by the report you shared yourself.

It's a sick world out there which has many despicable people who would commit rape, but it also has many that would accuse one of it too. The latter makes it harder to prosecute the former, and is certainly a factor as to why those conviction rates are so low.

How do you mean it was backed up by the CPS report?

So given you feel there is a disparity, do you think the burden of proof should stay as it is for people trying to prove someone was raped, but should be lowered for people trying to prove someone was falsely accused?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

How do you mean it was backed up by the CPS report?

So given you feel there is a disparity, do you think the burden of proof should stay as it is for people trying to prove someone was raped, but should be lowered for people trying to prove someone was falsely accused?

I know it doesn't really matter what I say, you are always going to argue water isn't wet regardless. One can make point after point but all you ever seem to do is ask more and more questions, put words into mouths, or play stupid. Rarely actually giving any valuable opinion of your own. I do really wonder about you, because I don't know anyone else that is as argumentative and seemingly unhappy as you are.

I've made my points, if you don't want to entertain them like an adult, then just leave it at that.

 

[SBT]

I know it doesn't really matter what I say, you are always going to argue water isn't wet regardless. One can make point after point but all you ever seem to do is ask more and more questions, put words into mouths, or play stupid. Rarely actually giving any valuable opinion of your own. I do really wonder about you, because I don't know anyone else that is as argumentative and seemingly unhappy as you are.

I've made my points, if you don't want to entertain them like an adult, then just leave it at that.

That’s a bit harsh, I feel like I’ve been pretty respectful in this thread, but I won’t force it if that’s how you feel. For the record, I’m anything but unhappy in my life!

 

[robbiekeane]

Fucking hell of course the focus has turned into victim blaming and “false reports of rape” being the cause of low conviction rate. Not entirely surprising given who’s pushing it…

Anyway, one thing that surprised me was that they allowed a 7 man and 4 woman jury go ahead with this kind of case that is bound to be heavily impacted by gender.

How does that work? Do they pick jury’s like the US where they profile them?

 

[Grendel]

Fucking hell of course the focus has turned into victim blaming and “false reports of rape” being the cause of low conviction rate. Not entirely surprising given who’s pushing it…

Anyway, one thing that surprised me was that they allowed a 7 man and 4 woman jury go ahead with this kind of case that is bound to be heavily impacted by gender.

How does that work? Do they pick jury’s like the US where they profile them?

not in my experience of being on a jury no

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Fucking hell of course the focus has turned into victim blaming and “false reports of rape” being the cause of low conviction rate. Not entirely surprising given who’s pushing it…

Anyway, one thing that surprised me was that they allowed a 7 man and 4 woman jury go ahead with this kind of case that is bound to be heavily impacted by gender.

How does that work? Do they pick jury’s like the US where they profile them?

Who's victim blaming? Do you think people crying rape makes it easier or harder for the real victims to get justice?

I guess we should have the jury as women only as well, just to complete the set.

 

[PurpleBin]

Sigurdsson one is that he was getting brass round to his from an agency on the regular when his wife was away.


On one occasion they sent a 15 year oldeliberately. After, they try to bribe him. He tells them to fuck off...and here we are. Apparently said girl is known around the North West and has been involved with many local celebrities.

Came from someone who works for GMP.

 

[robbiekeane]

Who's victim blaming? Do you think people crying rape makes it easier or harder for the real victims to get justice?

I guess we should have the jury as women only as well, just to complete the set.

As I’ve said to you before, there’s no point debating with you. Learnt that when you compared needing proof of vaccination to the holocaust and stuck to it.