GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee
Well-Known Member
This x1000.
The fight before the goal (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter Robinshio
- Start date
Nick
Administrator
Without VAR then things will get missed, doesn't explain the madness of the officials controlling VAR.
Even without it, there are so many random decisions most games as well.
The worst is when refs and linos have no clue which way to award a throw and then just guess like its rock, paper, scissors. There's also no consistency.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree that general officiating standards aren't brilliant at the moment but the reasons for this are obvious to anyone who has ever been involved. Ask @Adge or @Sky Blue Pete for their experiences.
What people fail to understand is the general standard of refereeing is declining because, in part, of the abuse refs face. There was a report last season that in one part of the country, for every 700 referees that join another 700 quit & I'd imagine in other parts of the country they actually have more leaving than newcomers.
This leads to younger, inexperienced referees at every level who will make honest mistakes. They then subsequently get abused & the churn continues until we have games being called off as we have no referees available as has been happening in the last couple of seasons.
It also doesn't help that the overwhelming majority of fans, ex players (and even current players), pundits etc. don't actually know or understand the Laws of the Game but abuse refs based on what they think they should be. The Rashford "offside" this weekend is a classic example.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Genuine question as I don't know the answer. What do they do to improve recruitment? Is there any system to fast track former players to PL / EFL officials?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
While we're talking about VAR why on earth do they have the officials in the video room sat there in a refs kit
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
If you compare the salaries with other top European leagues they are a fair bit behind.
Cov kid 55
Well-Known Member
Can we be sure it didn’t effect our conceding the goal? Bidwell at the near post would have been expected to attack the ball, and at the very least, disrupt the corner?
Frostie
Well-Known Member
He tracks Tella to the near post, nowhere near the flight of the ball. Tbh, there's not much in it anyway & it's pretty telling that Bidwell nor any other player makes any kind of complaint about it.
Cov kid 55
Well-Known Member
True, there was no real complaint. In a way that just shows what’s now accepted in the game, manhandling a player to stop him going for a ball. I still think it would have been interesting if VAR had been available, although it would have required our players to kick up a fuss, something we appear reluctant to do.
Calista
Well-Known Member
On this forum we sometimes debate a decision for days afterwards, with the benefit of multiple replays from different angles. How are officials at pitch level supposed to go through 90 minutes without making a number of (possible) errors? Accept that wrong decisions are bound to happen, and over a season it will even itself out.
It might be easier to retain good referees if football didn’t have an aggressive culture of ‘getting in the ref’s face’ (often spouted on here too). Other sports don’t tolerate it.
It might be easier to retain good referees if football didn’t have an aggressive culture of ‘getting in the ref’s face’ (often spouted on here too). Other sports don’t tolerate it.
Johhny Blue
Well-Known Member
Very Arrogant RefereeWhile we're talking about VAR why on earth do they have the officials in the video room sat there in a refs kit
Nick
Administrator
It doesn't have to be "getting in their face" to hold them to account though.
Of course there will be massive differences in errors and how obvious they are but what's the issue with them being held to account for them?
Frostie
Well-Known Member
They are held to account. They are regularly assessed & often taken off games, demoted down a league for some games etc. Just because this isn't addressed with a public statement each time doesn't mean it isn't happening in the background.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I think objective mistakes are different from subjective ones. One shouldn’t happen the others will always happen.
And at the top top level there are some objective mistakes hence the decision that rashford wasn’t offside
Also the going off the pitch for injuries or substitutions.
The reason they happen is there’s so much to remember. Also laws are tinkered with
sometimes during the season
Since my lad has started I’ve watched the referees with much more understanding and patience. The prem ref who did Cardiff was so much better than the following two and you could see the difference.
The point frostie makes us absolutely correct. If you don’t have thousands at the grassroots level you don’t get the cream of the crop at the top.
Couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately the modern football fan prefers to see refereeing mistakes as a sign of some kind of grand conspiracy against their favourite club.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Also, most decisions are very subjective. A referee has 1 view & 1 moment to make a decision based on what he saw. Add to that, as mentioned before, the overwhelming majority of people calling out what they believe to be "mistakes" don't know or understand the Laws of the Game.
Fwiw I hate VAR & think it has only made things worse. It's trying to 'fix' things that didn't need fixing, using tech that's not up to the job & just added a further layer of subjectivity and confusion.
Fwiw I hate VAR & think it has only made things worse. It's trying to 'fix' things that didn't need fixing, using tech that's not up to the job & just added a further layer of subjectivity and confusion.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
This …..
Var should deal with objective decisions goal line and in and out. And if it can’t do offsides then it shouldn’t try.
We were sold a myth. offside is not a subjective call or it shouldn’t be. If the system isn’t able to make it objective it’s stupid using it
It has been funny hearing pundits and ‘experts’ of the game say it was only his foot offside or how can his head be offside and not understanding that certain parts of the body can’t play the ball and therefore isn’t taken into account when considering offside
Similarly fouls are not objective they are subjective. We are sold a myth that we can get consistency by getting more than one opinion
I’d restart
All agree on goal line
All could get behind checking major mistakes. Mistaken identity or mistaken hand balls and even this would need to be specifically defined
The amount of players at grassroots that don’t understand above the wrist is still hand ball!! But not the shoulder of course
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I think Brian Clough’s words on refereeing to John Motson still stand. A split second decision from one viewpoint with tens of thousands of people shouting and singing, plus the cameras on.
I did it till my early 20s but the line was crossed when I got assaulted after a game that I’d agreed to do at the last minute. Scottish FA did nothing to help so I chose to pack it in.
I did it till my early 20s but the line was crossed when I got assaulted after a game that I’d agreed to do at the last minute. Scottish FA did nothing to help so I chose to pack it in.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Sad to hear that, your story will be one of thousands similar unfortunately.
The FA really need to clamp down on referee abuse but they're happy to let it continue as they just keep coining it in with fines etc.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Is that really the case??
Frostie
Well-Known Member
I don't know, just my cynical view.
Bans etc. are all incredibly lenient though don't you think? If they were serious about it then assaulting an official should be a lifetime ban from all forms of the game not a small amount of months ban from a certain league/competition.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
That's shit, sorry to hear that.
I never did it properly, but in Amsterdam last year I volunteered to ref a game (that I was supposed to be playing in) because none of the officials turned up. The game was close to finishing (my team losing 4-3), my own coach and some of the players of my own team turned on me because I didn't give them a freekick for something I viewed as a fair challenge. I had already given them two penalties in that game as well. That was my own team mates and coach who just couldn't see through the whistle and stopwatch and were shouting and swearing at me. I gave them a good talking to after the game, furious given that I had sacrificed my own playing time to get the game on for that.
In another match, we played some Morrocans and after a brawl (and one their players sent off for throwing a punch at me, which missed) they cleared the bench and surrounded the ref. He abandoned the game and they were threatening him, asking where he lived, and filming him with their phones.
It isn't surprising no one wants to do it.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Probably
The whole set up is just so aggressive and rather than tackle the symptom I’d prefer the cause, We’d prefer that no one gets verbally assaulted or physically assaulted or threatened etc etc than increasing the penalties
One team on Saturday morning as they play at alan Higgs the parents aren’t allowed at the side of the pitch. Removes completely the snide remarks from parents to referees. We should try things.
I also think the coaches should be responsible and accountable initially for poor behaviours of their supporters
I hear the excuse that it’s hard. Well it’s not harder than a 15 year old lad having to go over to a parent and asking them to not shout obscenities at the opposing team children.
It should be zero tolerance. Any derogatory comment aimed at the referee should be immediate expulsion from the pitch and that should be managed by the coaches not the kid. That’s not football that’s a safeguarding issue
I almost think now that 14 is too young as parents aren’t mature enough to nurture their involvement
My lads had bloody hell it’s like you got a whilstle for your birthday (in his first game!!!!!)
To how much are they paying you from a coach in about his third game!
Something is seriously wrong with someone saying those things and they are not safe around children especially when one of those children is the referee.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
That’s also pretty reprehensible. My worst was at Power League at Woodlands, must have been 17 and I had people screaming in my face threatening to beat the shit out of me over a 5 a side game. I never went there again either.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
It’s all part of the game is the other argument, my own worst was severe verbal abuse pretty horrific personal abuse and very bad language. Under 12 game!! Off duty police officer came up after the game and gave a witness statement,
the parents problem was I’d only given a foul to his son!!!
Just wow
Having parents on one side and coaches on the other makes a huge difference having them outside the pitch makes a huge difference
Think potentially parents should drop kids off and leave. If they have to be there then they have to stay quiet
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
In one Scottish game I got called a ‘Mongol’. Still don’t really get it
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
People who haven’t played for a long time also forget that it’s a very different game at eye level than sat in the stand or watching on tv
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Massively and they forget they have a huge responsibility for the game as a whole too. Roy Keane shouldn’t be anywhere near the game given what he did and has talked about since. His voice and opinion is toxic and should be ignored. There are others too.
Don’t get me wrong opinions are useful and interesting just when people have deliberately finished another persons career on purpose why are we listening to his opinion on a decision
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I don’t see why Gary Neville gets to comment on managers given his own failed stint and his tendency to sack those at Salford
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Yep. I wouldn’t mind if people acknowledge they were wrong and seek to ensure the game works well and I know it’s a balance
Frostie
Well-Known Member
This is the argument I don't get whenever you hear "ex players should be referees etc."
A) 90% of them don't know/understand the Laws of the Game.
B) Why would they want to for the (relatively) small salary given what they earn/earned elsewhere.
C) If they are all some footballing geniuses why aren't they successful managers/coaches?
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
You'd think that assault should be more than just a lifetime ban. It should be prosecuted for the crime that it is. There seem to be some who think that they get an exception because it's football.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
It doesn't help referees when laws like offside and handball have become so convoluted that it's almost impossible to give a 'correct' decsion because there is always an argument against heir decision.
Fernandes' goal just highlights that. There are those who are arguing, fairly, that the goal was correctly given. I, on the other hand, think that you could and should interpret those laws as it being offside.
Just make it simple. Offside is offside. If you're playing you're active and therefore affecting play. Simple as that. If you're a defending lying on the goalline injured you're deemed to be active and can play the opposition onside. But a player running 40yards towards the ball only to then not touch it at the last second for a teammate isn't 'active'. It's absolute bullshit and making a complete mockery of the game.
But it gets people discussing it and therefore media publicity...