Do you want to discuss boring politics? (185 Viewers)

duffer

Well-Known Member
Don't we all?

* and no, I don't mean as a dartboard :)

It's a tough one finding the space. With my Irish heritage I've also got fit in the illuminated sacred heart Jesus, the Pope, and JFK. It's getting a bit crowded next to the Queen (black ribbon, obviously), King Charles, Maggie, and Churchill. Might have to get a smaller Union Flag. :)
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder if Starmer's got a picture of Thatcher hanging in his office.
That is ultimately going to be Labour’s problem going into the next GE if they keep this direction of travel. I pointed this out to the campaigner who knocked on my door. The closer they align themselves to Sunak the less relevant voting labour will become for many. Makes no odds to me in many respects as I’m tactically voting at the next GE but it will to some.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
I’m sorry mate.

It is a very big pay drop but what is quite clear is that teaching makes you unemployable outside of education. I did come very close to a perfect lab based job but was told I couldn’t be hired without recent lab experience after passing interview.

So a 3-4 year pay sacrifice for longer term gain
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
It is a very big pay drop but what is quite clear is that teaching makes you unemployable outside of education. I did come very close to a perfect lab based job but was told I couldn’t be hired without recent lab experience after passing interview.

So a 3-4 year pay sacrifice for longer term gain
So you're saying teachers are overpaid then despite wanting to hold the country to ransom for more? 🤭
And if you calculate the hourly rate, it's even higher!
*excl marking and lesson planning of course
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
So you're saying teachers are overpaid then despite wanting to hold the country to ransom for more? 🤭
And if you calculate the hourly rate, it's even higher!
*excl marking and lesson planning of course

You’re on the wind up of course but for me this is a pretty significant life choice
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
They’re being let down at school age first. Let’s prioritise that first is all I’m saying.
School age education is fucked due to poor funding and even worse recruitment and retention. How many years now has the government missed its trainee teacher targets now? And when teachers do strike Starmer is nowhere to be seen - he has no answers to solve these problems.

If you provide young people with clear progression to a future career that is valued and appreciated then you may start to see improvements in behaviour and outcomes as just two examples.

It’s time we stopped this narrow curriculum offer we have in schools and provide a pathway for students that don’t want to pursue academia to have a mapped out journey to a trade or apprenticeship, which includes not pricing them out of the training and skills.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
School age education is fucked due to poor funding and even worse recruitment and retention. How many years now has the government missed its trainee teacher targets now? And when teachers do strike Starmer is nowhere to be seen - he has no answers to solve these problems.

If you provide young people with clear progression to a future career that is valued and appreciated then you may start to see improvements in behaviour and outcomes as just two examples.

It’s time we stopped this narrow curriculum offer we have in schools and provide a pathway for students that don’t want to pursue academia to have a mapped out journey to a trade or apprenticeship, which includes not pricing them out of the training and skills.

Starmer probably wants to one up Sunak and make A level Maths compulsory
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
It's interesting that so many countries don't seem to struggle to offer free university education (partial list linked to below).

This isn't an either/or thing, imho. We don't need to dilute funding to other areas of education or the NHS to do it, it is (as with most elements of public spending) a political choice. I'd suggest that a better educated populace, and not just in STEM subjects, is better for the country as a whole. Additionally, the provision of that education in itself drives employment in all other sectors of the economy.

I know something that's often been assumed is that having a student loan won't impact a person's ability to get a mortgage. It absolutely will - net monthly income with appropriate deductions for student loans is a key decision in affordability calculations.

As a vague aside, if you study until you're 21, you've still got another 47 years of productive, tax-paying work ahead to look forward to. If you earn more money because you're better educated, you'll end up paying back the government in additional taxation anyway! :)

I agree in principle BUT we also have to consider that if everyone is doing this, who's doing all the jobs that don't require a uni education?

We need to value everything, as well as uni education. Vocational training/apprenticeships need investment alongside uni. So if we have to scale back the number of university degrees to ensure chances are available in other areas then I would.

But vitally, this must be along with changing the mindset of how people perceive such things. Apprenticeships and vocations are seen as 'runners-up prizes' and those that take them weren't good enough to get into uni. I think that's nonsense. Different people have different skills, and all of them are needed to have a balanced, functioning economy. Would you want a Professor of Classics at Oxford fiddling around with your boiler or electrics?

If you're academic and suit university, brilliant. If you're practically minded and suit a different path, that's brilliant too.
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
I agree in principle BUT we also have to consider that if everyone is doing this, who's doing all the jobs that don't require a uni education?

We need to value everything, as well as uni education. Vocational training/apprenticeships need investment alongside uni. So if we have to scale back the number of university degrees to ensure chances are available in other areas then I would.

But vitally, this must be along with changing the mindset of how people perceive such things. Apprenticeships and vocations are seen as 'runners-up prizes' and those that take them weren't good enough to get into uni. I think that's nonsense. Different people have different skills, and all of them are needed to have a balanced, functioning economy. Would you want a Professor of Classics at Oxford fiddling around with your boiler or electrics?

If you're academic and suit university, brilliant. If you're practically minded and suit a different path, that's brilliant too.

Are there such things as ‘practical’ universities?
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Are there such things as ‘practical’ universities?
Don't know, but it's the type of thing you expect to be called something like a 'technical college' rather than university. When people think of uni they (traditionally) have tended to think of it as lecture halls and intellectual people discussing big questions. With the massive expansions over the last generation that perception has been diluted a bit, though I still think people would consider them to be more about the 'thinking' than the 'doing'.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Don't know, but it's the type of thing you expect to be called something like a 'technical college' rather than university. When people think of uni they (traditionally) have tended to think of it as lecture halls and intellectual people discussing big questions. With the massive expansions over the last generation that perception has been diluted a bit, though I still think people would consider them to be more about the 'thinking' than the 'doing'.
Science courses, Medicine, Engineering etc are practical subjects I'd argue
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
Science courses, Medicine, Engineering etc are practical subjects I'd argue

Fair point. Couldn’t really engage my brain. Suppose there aren’t specifically ‘academic’ unis. Bit of a tangent from that - would it be in any way suitable to have specialisms at certain universities? Suppose they wouldn’t be keen as it opens them up to more student volume volatility.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Science courses, Medicine, Engineering etc are practical subjects I'd argue
I agree, though I think that, to varying degrees, they're perceived as lots of lectures and theory with a practical element. The real practical parts are considered to be when the medical students work in hospitals or the engineering students get put on placements/internships etc. which, despite often being part of the course, in people's mind are separate.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
This. Uni fees I’m not so bothered about, especially as I’ve had to pay them :p they’re mostly subsidies for middle class kids, but there needs to be a much better offer all round especially after the mess the Tories have made of the apprenticeship system.

They're only subsidies for middle class kids because of their ability to pay tuition fees in the first place.

The dying days of the last Labour government had already put in train a lot of changes that led to the existing apprenticeship system through stupid gimmicks like targets for the number of apprentices by 2020. Just nonsensical.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
I agree, though I think that, to varying degrees, they're perceived as lots of lectures and theory with a practical element. The real practical parts are considered to be when the medical students work in hospitals or the engineering students get put on placements/internships etc. which, despite often being part of the course, in people's mind are separate.
My course was about 50/50 between lab work and lectures. Moved to about 60/40 in my final year and I did an industrial placement too.

Wife did an Arts subject an had about 3 or 4 lectures a week and that was it.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Are all the wards and council spots up for grabs in Coventry today?

Where I live in Northamptonshire we have no local elections at all - last year we had a full set of elections for new councils after the Conservatives bankrupted the entire County, and duly rewarded them by electing them straight back into power. 🤦‍♂️
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Are all the wards and council spots up for grabs in Coventry today?

Where I live in Northamptonshire we have no local elections at all - last year we had a full set of elections for new councils after the Conservatives bankrupted the entire County, and duly rewarded them by electing them straight back into power. 🤦‍♂️
I'm a bit scared that I seem to be moving to an area where Andrea Leadsom is the MP...
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Is Ed Davy drunk? He needs sectioning.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
If the voting tends are anything to go by and they remain that way at the next GE the Tories are proper fucked. Labour is gaining and taking back votes in leave voting areas including but not exclusively the traditional red wall. The Tories meanwhile are losing votes in remain voting traditionally Tory seats to everyone. Stratford apparently on course to become Lib Dem controlled for instance. The telling thing is that brexit for the most part doesn’t seem to be an issue in leave voting areas but it is in remain voting areas and brexit is the Tories baby.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
If the voting tends are anything to go by and they remain that way at the next GE the Tories are proper fucked. Labour is gaining and taking back votes in leave voting areas including but not exclusively the traditional red wall. The Tories meanwhile are losing votes in remain voting traditionally Tory seats to everyone. Stratford apparently on course to become Lib Dem controlled for instance. The telling thing is that brexit for the most part doesn’t seem to be an issue in leave voting areas but it is in remain voting areas and brexit is the Tories baby.
aye, absolute disaster for the tories
 

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
Looks like the GEs is Labours to lose - hoping they have someone decent to come forward as Starmer couldn’t make a decision to save his life
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
He was saying that Lionel Ritchie is going to the Coronation thats now in a Lib Dem council ward.

I was held up in traffic in London today while a police escorted motorcade passed, wondered who it was, think you've answered my question (I'm referring to Lionel, not Ed).
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
If the voting tends are anything to go by and they remain that way at the next GE the Tories are proper fucked. Labour is gaining and taking back votes in leave voting areas including but not exclusively the traditional red wall. The Tories meanwhile are losing votes in remain voting traditionally Tory seats to everyone. Stratford apparently on course to become Lib Dem controlled for instance. The telling thing is that brexit for the most part doesn’t seem to be an issue in leave voting areas but it is in remain voting areas and brexit is the Tories baby.
The important thing is whether it shows convincingly that Labour is likely to win sufficient seats to win a majority. I'm not convinced based on local experience (knife edge Tory seat) where local Tories have sadly mostly kept their seats even with a big turnout.

Even the Philosopher's firm has beaten Labour to a seat in Leeds FFS.
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
The Tory media team were stating 1,000 losses.

It was obviously expectation management, with 500-800 losses giving them reason to say "We've done better than expected".

Hmmm.
 

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