Is Stuart Linnell correct? (4 Viewers)

[lordsummerisle]

Into a new season, we were thrown into turmoil which resulted in a 4-game losing streak; which had the potential to deliver 12 points.

You'll say - predictably - we wouldn't have won them all. Conjecture. I'll say we lost them all. Fact

Which totally destroys the "Nobody else could do better than Thorn" arguments bandied around last season.

We didn't replace him. We were relegated. Fact.

 

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[Nonleagueherewecome]

Knocked the doors for Nellist during his Election succes ,not a chance of corruption with that guy ,no snout in the trough like they've all been at for the last 15yrs,can't believe he lost his seat in the locals.

One of the very few politicians left that I believe in. In fact he's too good to call a politician..Good work, Wingy.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Politics is dead......ideology is yesterdays news....

Absolutely pointless voting these days.....total waste of my time....

:guitar2:

Agreed, but apathy means they've won. Still gotta keep an eye on them!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Not conjecture at all. If you prepare a forecast you absorb the evidence from prior outcomes. The best most optimistic projection is 3 points. We could have 12 points. We could play a full strength Arsenal team and win 15 nil. Unlikely.

You said a 12 point handicap in your original post. So do you actually believe we would have 15 points now if we hadn't acted as we did?

Do you know what conjecture means? It means a statement of opinion. As such for you to state one thing, and for me to state another - well, they're both conjecture. See?

If you wish to look at a mathematical extrolation of form and forecast what the points haul may have been with some science; well, let's see. We were unbeaten in the league and won one in the cup. If we're have continued that form, the points accumulated over that four game term would be between 4 and 12. Let's meet in the middle and call it 8 shall we?

We got 0.

Whether the points would have been 4, 6, 7, 10 or 12, I don't know. Neither do you. But it would have been more than 0. Of that I'm sure. And thus we were handicapped by Waggott's actions, certainly

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Which totally destroys the "Nobody else could do better than Thorn" arguments bandied around last season.

We didn't replace him. We were relegated. Fact.

It is a fact, yes. But we replaced him this year and haven't seen the biblical upturn in form we would have wished. Equally a statement of fact. Many asserted we could do no worse than Thorn. Which certainly appears to have been proven wrong

 

[Grendel]

Do you know what conjecture means? It means a statement of opinion. As such for you to state one thing, and for me to state another - well, they're both conjecture. See?

If you wish to look at a mathematical extrolation of form and forecast what the points haul may have been with some science; well, let's see. We were unbeaten in the league and won one in the cup. If we're have continued that form, the points accumulated over that four game term would be between 4 and 12. Let's meet in the middle and call it 8 shall we?

We got 0.

Whether the points would have been 4, 6, 7, 10 or 12, I don't know. Neither do you. But it would have been more than 0. Of that I'm sure. And thus we were handicapped by Waggott's actions, certainly

So after 4 games we beat an inferior league team in a cup and get 3 draws one of which is against a team bottom of the league.

In the next 4 games we win a cup match against superior opposition and lose 3 league games.

In your myopic la la land that gets 8 points discounting the away issue we have.

That's neither conjecture or fact. That's stupidity.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I'm not going to pursue this one with you as it's opinion against opinion of the retrospective.

The only pertinent points being that the subject that started the thread - Linnell's claims appear universally disproven; and that from the point Waggott sacked the first manager in league football, our results took a nose-dive for the worse

 

[Grendel]

His opinion of thorn is certainly universally disproven.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

His opinion of thorn is certainly universally disproven.

Back...... to....... Thorn...... yawn. Quelle surprise.

Besides, where's your promised glowing biographical account of Waggott's stella times at Charlton? All the class are sitting nicely and can't wait to read your homework.....

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Back...... to....... Thorn...... yawn. Quelle surprise.

Besides, where's your promised glowing biographical account of Waggott's stella times at Charlton? All the class are sitting nicely and can't wait to read your homework.....

Well he hasn't had a managerial post, so therefore hasn't got a win-ratio. How the hell is it possible to analyse him without one?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Well he hasn't had a managerial post, so therefore hasn't got a win-ratio. How the hell is it possible to analyse him without one?

I hope the all-seeing Grenduffy can help see the light and too embrace him as the next messiah. All I can find is stuff like this, you see:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1278676/Charlton-fear-future-promoted.html

 

[lordsummerisle]

Do you know what conjecture means? It means a statement of opinion. As such for you to state one thing, and for me to state another - well, they're both conjecture. See?

If you wish to look at a mathematical extrolation of form and forecast what the points haul may have been with some science; well, let's see. We were unbeaten in the league and won one in the cup. If we're have continued that form, the points accumulated over that four game term would be between 4 and 12. Let's meet in the middle and call it 8 shall we?

We got 0.

Whether the points would have been 4, 6, 7, 10 or 12, I don't know. Neither do you. But it would have been more than 0. Of that I'm sure. And thus we were handicapped by Waggott's actions, certainly

Not a particularly good "scientific" analysis to extrapolate 8 points from the last 4 games if Thorn had stayed in charge.

He has never had a haul of 8 points from 4 games, hadn't won a league game in 9, in the 60 odd games in charge had a run of 2 wins only 3 times, but has had a winless streak of 11 games in which 8 of them were losses, he has had a couple of 4 game losing streaks though.

To think that he had suddenly improved after the Bury game to the extent that he would have got 8-12 points out of the next 4 games is laughable, and really doesn't help any possible argument you may have.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Point is LS, we'll never know. Like trying to second guess how James Dean would have aged

 

[lordsummerisle]

Point is LS, we'll never know. Like trying to second guess how James Dean would have aged

He's dead? Bloody hell!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

He's dead? Bloody hell!

There's more. I've got something terrible to tell you about the Easter Bunny and Waggott's time at Charlton...

 

[lordsummerisle]

There's more. I've got something terrible to tell you about the Easter Bunny and Waggott's time at Charlton...

Now you are really proving Grendel's point that you are changing the direction of every thread into a dig at Waggott.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Now you are really proving Grendel's point that you are changing the direction of every thread into a dig at Waggott.

What, he's been criticising someone for taking every topic off thread to have a go at someone they don't like? A tad hypocritical, that.

 

[lordsummerisle]

What, he's been criticising someone for taking every topic off thread to have a go at someone they don't like? A tad hypocritical, that.

As is somebody doing it after previously crticising somebody for doing it, etc,etc.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

As is somebody doing it after previously crticising somebody for doing it, etc,etc.

Someone put the coffee on.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

So after 4 games we beat an inferior league team in a cup and get 3 draws one of which is against a team bottom of the league.

In the next 4 games we win a cup match against superior opposition and lose 3 league games.

In your myopic la la land that gets 8 points discounting the away issue we have.

That's neither conjecture or fact. That's stupidity.

We beat a superior side but AET, so technically drew you forgot we in 90m v Burton, an inferior league team, we couldn't score and won on pens. At least we beat D&R in 90m (on a pen, oh well).

You can't attack Thorn without attacking Shaw, fact is, in the league, we had 2 repectable drew and one rather embarresing, but still never lost.

Under Shaw, we beat Brum, fair play, but our 'bread and butter' is the league, we lost to Crewe, Stevenage (most boring game in a long while), Tranmere and an embarresing 4-1 mauling... To Shrewesbury!

Oh, and under the "ridiculous system" we never lost, in fact BEAT BIRMINGHAM (funny you missed that!) when we moved to 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 we never scored a point. Fact.

Shaw is at fault, not Thorn (not to the extent of Shaw), not Waggott (he took as long as he needed to and it may pay off, but if history repeats itself, I'm not holding my breath!)

In short, Shaw had more games games, didn't get a point, against argubly, weaker opposition (Sheff U > Tranmere, Yeovil > Crewe, Bury < Shrewesbury + Stevenage). Fact.

I'm not sad to see Thorn go, but I'm sad to see the back of the diamond.