Do you want to discuss boring politics? (142 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Here’s a good article on the cost to the economy from mental health issues. Spoiler alert, around 75% of that cost is lost productivity of people dealing with mental health issues. The arguments for investing in mental health care are broad and multifaceted. It’s not just about the prison population. In fact it’s only a small part of the bigger issue.

Mental health problems cost UK economy at least £118 billion a year - new research

The cost of mental health problems is equivalent to around 5 per cent of the UK

www.lse.ac.uk

Not a simple switch to flick though TBF. Obviously huge scope for improvement, but good MH care is expensive and good therapists are rare. The whole pipeline needs looking at. Weirdly I sort of hope AI might do some good work here. The chat bot type stuff has shown promise. I wouldn’t want to just medicate everyone.

 

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[CCFCSteve]

Not a simple switch to flick though TBF. Obviously huge scope for improvement, but good MH care is expensive and good therapists are rare. The whole pipeline needs looking at. Weirdly I sort of hope AI might do some good work here. The chat bot type stuff has shown promise. I wouldn’t want to just medicate everyone.

I share your hopes. It will be interesting to see how AI develops. If it’s as good as people are saying it could potentially help with medical and mental health issues in the not too distant future

 

[Ian1779]

he'd be stupid to say he would get rid of it

if he did what you wanted he'd walk into a tory trap daily

This is bollocks.

Just goes to prove that a) he is a complete liar and b) completely absent of any of the qualities that the party he leads was founded upon.

 

[David O'Day]

This is bollocks.

Just goes to prove that a) he is a complete liar and b) completely absent of any of the qualities that the party he leads was founded upon.

Ok, cool

 

[chiefdave]

Just goes to prove that a) he is a complete liar

Looking like this is what the Tories are going to go with, if not for the election campaign then at least for the next few months. The can't trust Starmer because everything he promises he goes back on line

Be interesting to see what Labour come up with to counter that because he's not exactly got a strong track record on that front

 

[skybluetony176]

Sunak’s doing his best to out do Starmer when it comes to breaking promises

Chris Mason: Sunak pledge to scrap EU laws collides with reality

The PM has U-turned on a government plan to get rid of thousands of EU laws by the end of the year.

www.bbc.co.uk

Another slice of reality collides with the Brexit bus.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Sunak’s doing his best to out do Starmer when it comes to breaking promises

Chris Mason: Sunak pledge to scrap EU laws collides with reality

The PM has U-turned on a government plan to get rid of thousands of EU laws by the end of the year.

www.bbc.co.uk

Another slice of reality collides with the Brexit bus.

I don't think it was ever actually a government plan, in the sense that it was made by somebody speaking as a member of the government. It was always impossible. It's Tories making silly promises to appease their base / distract from the mess.

 

[duffer]

Looking like this is what the Tories are going to go with, if not for the election campaign then at least for the next few months. The can't trust Starmer because everything he promises he goes back on line

Be interesting to see what Labour come up with to counter that because he's not exactly got a strong track record on that front

I watched PMs questions for the first time in a while yesterday and I thought Sunak actually did quite well with that line of attack because it's very hard to defend.

Like it or not, Sunak also nailed Starmer on his complete lack of policies.

At some point you'd imagine Labour will have to start saying what they're actually going to stand for...

At the moment we're back to the bad old days of having an opposition party that's too scared of actually opposing anything. This is exactly how Labour ended up supporting a massively unequal austerity package and the hideously unfair "Welfare" bill the first time around.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

At some point you'd imagine Labour will have to start saying what they're actually going to stand for...

Yeah tbh I'm not worried until and unless I see blank pages as a manifesto.

Then I'll join you with the pitchforks!

 

[skybluetony176]

I don't think it was ever actually a government plan, in the sense that it was made by somebody speaking as a member of the government. It was always impossible. It's Tories making silly promises to appease their base / distract from the mess.

It was and still is a Bill being debated in the House. They’re tabling an amendment next week to reduce the amount from 4000 to 600. Still unrealistic though. There was a reason why the EU has all those unelected bureaucrats and the reality is we don’t have enough on our own to work through them. It took EU bureaucrats decades to investigate, educate and draft all those laws, the idea that we can “sort out” even 600 in seven months is like everything else brexit, a fantasy.

 

[duffer]

Yeah tbh I'm not worried until and unless I see blank pages as a manifesto.

Then I'll join you with the pitchforks!

Beg to differ, NW.

The point of the opposition is to rigorously scrutinise, oppose, and propose alternatives during the lifetime of parliament, not just in the last few months when there's an election looming. Otherwise they might as well not bother to be there.

Corbyn undoubtedly had many faults, but at least he stood strongly against austerity and as a result the government shifted tack.

What does Starmer stand for and what difference is he making right now to what's going on at Westminster.

Are we going to have to wait for a year to find out, or in essence is he actually what he appears to be; broadly aligned with this government's direction of travel but wearing a different colour tie?

 

[David O'Day]

Sunak’s doing his best to out do Starmer when it comes to breaking promises

Chris Mason: Sunak pledge to scrap EU laws collides with reality

The PM has U-turned on a government plan to get rid of thousands of EU laws by the end of the year.

www.bbc.co.uk

Another slice of reality collides with the Brexit bus.

u-turned on getting rid of leaseholds as well

 

[David O'Day]

Beg to differ, NW.

The point of the opposition is to rigorously scrutinise, oppose, and propose alternatives during the lifetime of parliament, not just in the last few months when there's an election looming. Otherwise they might as well not bother to be there.

Corbyn undoubtedly had many faults, but at least he stood strongly against austerity and as a result the government shifted tack.

What does Starmer stand for and what difference is he making right now to what's going on at Westminster.

Are we going to have to wait for a year to find out, or in essence is he actually what he appears to be; broadly aligned with this government's direction of travel but wearing a different colour tie?

But no opposition does that, the Cameron tories only had 1 policy during they whole time they were in opposition

 

[fernandopartridge]

It was and still is a Bill being debated in the House. They’re tabling an amendment next week to reduce the amount from 4000 to 600. Still unrealistic though. There was a reason why the EU has all those unelected bureaucrats and the reality is we don’t have enough on our own to work through them. It took EU bureaucrats decades to investigate, educate and draft all those laws, the idea that we can “sort out” even 600 in seven months is like everything else brexit, a fantasy.

The one I work with everyday (public contracts) is due to be replaced by a new domestic law which is broadly similar, it has taken 2.5 years so far and it isn't even due to become law until this time next year.

I don't have a problem with replacing EU derived laws over time but it should be within a proper framework of what the UK's actual ambitions are, not just for vanity reasons.

 

[fernandopartridge]

But no opposition does that, the Cameron tories only had 1 policy during they whole time they were in opposition

They were a tremendous government of course and romped home to a coalition with the Lib Dems

 

[CCFCSteve]

Beg to differ, NW.

The point of the opposition is to rigorously scrutinise, oppose, and propose alternatives during the lifetime of parliament, not just in the last few months when there's an election looming. Otherwise they might as well not bother to be there.

Corbyn undoubtedly had many faults, but at least he stood strongly against austerity and as a result the government shifted tack.

What does Starmer stand for and what difference is he making right now to what's going on at Westminster.

Are we going to have to wait for a year to find out, or in essence is he actually what he appears to be; broadly aligned with this government's direction of travel but wearing a different colour tie?

There is always a concern that popular policies from opposition parties will be nicked so I understand why they would’ve held back to date, however, with a likely year to go until GE, nows the time to start building a picture as to what people would be voting for.

 

[skybluetony176]

The one I work with everyday (public contracts) is due to be replaced by a new domestic law which is broadly similar, it has taken 2.5 years so far and it isn't even due to become law until this time next year.

I don't have a problem with replacing EU derived laws over time but it should be within a proper framework of what the UK's actual ambitions are, not just for vanity reasons.

Which is exactly why even 600 is complete fantasy. I’m not sure how anyone takes them seriously, especially their own backbenchers who see how long it takes to get from an idea to a bill to then actually implemented in law once passed. We’re talking months of work at least on a single issue. They’re either complete idiots (quite possible with the 2019 intake) or they think the electorate are.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Which is exactly why even 600 is complete fantasy. I’m not sure how anyone takes them seriously, especially their own backbenchers who see how long it takes to get from an idea to a bill to then actually implemented in law once passed. We’re talking months of work at least on a single issue. They’re either complete idiots (quite possible with the 2019 intake) or they think the electorate are.

Ironically, the only way they could possibly do it is by taking it out of parliament's hands!

 

[skybluetony176]

I see interest rates have just gone up again.

 

[David O'Day]

I see interest rates have just gone up again.

inflation not going down

 

[skybluetony176]

u-turned on getting rid of leaseholds as well

Missed that.

 

[David O'Day]

Missed that.

Plans to abolish ‘feudal’ leasehold system in England and Wales dropped

Row between Michael Gove and No 10 results in end of promise to scrap leaseholds

www.theguardian.com

 

[David O'Day]

That's why we pay him the big bucks

 

[CCFCSteve]

inflation not going down

Yeah, not good. Always thought Sunak made a boob by saying he’ll get inflation halved by end of the year. Some policy decisions might help but he’s got fuck all control over it in the grand scheme of things. BoE now expect it to still be around 5% end of year

On a more positive note BoE growth forecasts have significantly improved from expecting eight quarter recession which was typically overly negative (forecast last autumn) to now not going into recession at all and an overall 2.25% improvement over three years. Not that I’ll hang my hat on these either !

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yeah, not good. Always thought Sunak made a boob by saying he’ll get inflation halved by end of the year. Some policy decisions might help but he’s got fuck all control over it in the grand scheme of things. BoE now expect it to still be around 5% end of year

On a more positive note BoE growth forecasts have significantly improved from expecting eight quarter recession which was typically overly negative (forecast last autumn) to now not going into recession at all and an overall 2.25% improvement over three years. Not that I’ll hang my hat on these either !

The BoE hiking interest rates having no effect on inflation, so let's try some more. Honestly, this country.

 

[skybluetony176]

The BoE hiking interest rates having no effect on inflation, so let's try some more. Honestly, this country.

They’ve got to get the plebs to give “their” money back to the wealthiest somehow.

 

[David O'Day]

They were a tremendous government of course and romped home to a coalition with the Lib Dems

not the point anyone was making

 

[Ian1779]

Ok, cool

I understand - Starmer’s rationale is so utterly clueless that you can’t even be bothered to make some shit up to defend him anymore.

 

[David O'Day]

I understand - Starmer’s rationale is so utterly clueless that you can’t even be bothered to make some shit up to defend him anymore.

nah, just can't be bothered to argue with folk who's minds are so made up the don't realise the utter drivel they spout.

Life is far to short for that so I'll just smile at the nonsense you post about Starmer and give thanks he isn't doing what you say and walking into tory traps.

 

[Ian1779]

nah, just can't be bothered to argue with folk who's minds are so made up the don't realise the utter drivel they spout.

Life is far to short for that so I'll just smile at the nonsense you post about Starmer and give thanks he isn't doing what you say and walking into tory traps.

The ‘Tory trap’ may have some validity in other areas, but in no way is justified in this case.

 

[David O'Day]

The ‘Tory trap’ may have some validity in other areas, but in no way is justified in this case.

cool

 

[Grendel]

cool

Excellent political analysis

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

he'd be stupid to say he would get rid of it

if he did what you wanted he'd walk into a tory trap daily

Even the GB News comment section thinks it’s stupid

 

[fernandopartridge]

not the point anyone was making

Why did you use them as an example then? The parallels with today are interesting

Party in power for 13 years
Massive economic shock making everybody worse off
Both parties pretending they need to balance the books

 

[skybluetony176]