bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
We’re not talking about the bond. We’re talking about the £14m that ACL owed to CCC
We’re not talking about the bond. We’re talking about the £14m that ACL owed to CCC
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The price wasps paid was £5.6 million - you just don’t understand for some reason that rather basic fact. Not £19 million but £5.6 million. It’s a fact. Richardson used the leverage of the grounds valuation to borrow against it to get his money back. Another fact
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Because they replaced the debt with another one to pay back Richardson (and whatever else they frittered the money away on)
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fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Yes, so it was well after the sale of the shares in ACL, ergo was not part of the deal.They paid the £13.4 back after the bond.
All here in the Lego Heads article after the bond money was raised.
Wasps to pay back £13.4m Ricoh Arena council loan "within days"
Club insists bond scheme which raised £35m is not to help owner shift personal financial risk onto investorswww.coventrytelegraph.net
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bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
They wouldn’t have paid it if they didn’t have to.
ACL was sold with the debt.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
it was sold for £5.6m not £19m
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
When buying a company, the buyer will have a net price that they’re prepared to pay for it. That price will include any debt they take on as part of the transaction.
Companies are often sold on a debt free basis, i.e. the selling company will settle any debts before, or at the time of the transaction.
If debt is left in the company post sale, then the buyer will reduce the price they pay to the seller accordingly.
Companies are often sold on a debt free basis, i.e. the selling company will settle any debts before, or at the time of the transaction.
If debt is left in the company post sale, then the buyer will reduce the price they pay to the seller accordingly.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Yes, because the purchase included £14m of debt.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Yes. The deal included no obligation to pay the debt off.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Taking on the debt was obviously part of the deal. Otherwise why would they have used the bond money to pay it off? Unless you’re suggesting it was some sort of “charitable” donation to the council that just happened to be equal to the debt I’m not sure what point it is you think you’re making.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Of course it did. Stop being ridiculous. It didn’t have an obligation to pay it off early but they brought it with a payment plan. Many on here were complaining that they paid it off early because it robbed the taxpayer of the interest payments.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Sorry, no obligation to pay it off as part of the price paid. I don't know how many times this needs to be explained. It bought the shares and their assets and liabilities. The deal was not contingent on the debt being settled through the bond issue
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I feel like I've stepped back in time in this thread, why are we going on about this again?
Not sure why anyone would count the debt as paid, let alone part of the sale price Wasps paid. They refinanced and then when the time came to pay up on that refinancing they couldn't and went bust
Not sure why anyone would count the debt as paid, let alone part of the sale price Wasps paid. They refinanced and then when the time came to pay up on that refinancing they couldn't and went bust
Grendel
Well-Known Member
yep
Bob Ainsworth on ACL sale to Wasps
Apparently Grendel has a good job imagine if he went to his bosses saying I've just secured a 250 year lease on a stadium for only £5m and you bought on that basis would be a bit of shocker when the invoices for the loan £14m loan interest started to arrive, its £19m purchase price however you...
www.skybluestalk.co.uk
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You’ve just said it yourself, they brought the liabilities. I’ve not said it was contingent being repaid though the bond issue. But the liability they brought had a commitment to pay it back. It’s just ridiculous to say otherwise.
Incorrect
WASPS did not buy the Arena per se - they bought the shares of the company that owned the Arena
On the revaluation and subsequent refinancing ACL paid off the CCC debt
The WASPS Group paid £19m in total
All a play on words!
Wasps' £20m Ricoh Arena takeover deal approved unanimously by CCC
Premiership rugby club have been given the green light to complete a 100 per cent takeover of the stadium
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Not really. They did only insofar as they bought ACL's obligation. The key point is that the deal for the shares in ACL could not have been rescinded if they decided not to pay it at all.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
indeed
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Heat stroke?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
But they did. So I’m not sure what your point is.
Nick
Administrator
They didn't. The bond holders did
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
But they could have been sued for payment and in the event of non payment wound up. Then they would no longer own the shares.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Yes but not relating specifically to the deal they signed
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bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
So Wasps gave the city of Coventry £14m out of the goodness of their hearts?
Why the hell do we hate them then?
According to you lot Derek Richardson is the greatest benefactor to Coventry since John Gulson.
Robinson deserves a statue. What a wonderful man.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Where have I said that you
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Well they were either paying down a debt they legally owed or it was a generous donation to the city treasury.
Which was it ?
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
The debt arose specifically from the deal that they signed.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Its amazing how many people think you can buy a business up to its eyeballs in debt but that debt suddenly disappears the second the ownership changes
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Well, yeah. Technically in the end I suppose they did. Minus the interest payments they didn’t get their capital back though.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Yeah but apart from that.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
There's no need to resort to name calling is there?
Also there has been at least one post saying that as new owners they weren't liable for the debt
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Christ you are beyond thick.
The deal to buy the shares in ACL and thus the leasehold on the Arena did not include any specific obligation to immediately repay the loan to CCC. This is a demonstrable fact given that ACL only raised the finance (secured against the ACL assets they'd purchased) to discharge the loan some months AFTER they had the shares in ACL. They chose to repay the loan early rather than over its full term.
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bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
No one is saying it had to be repaid immediately.
What they are saying is that it had to be repaid, either immediately, within the 50 years previously agreed, or somewhere in between.
Either way it had to be repaid. Do you understand now? ACL had a debt of £14m that Wasps became liable for as ACL owners