Do you want to discuss boring politics? (274 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

The other ultimate irony about Uxbridge being up in arms about ULEZ’s is that it was the former mayor of London who came up with the idea and set the wheels in motion for the next mayor to take over. That former mayor of course being one Boris Johnson, their outgoing MP.

 

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[PVA]

Well it clearly is as no one seems to have a clue what toy are talking about

The tories will regain both the other seats at the general election as the Tory vote didn’t show

Ian, FP and me have all raised the issue of mobilising the vote which you’ve just refused to acknowledge

Christ it's really not difficult.

The tories got hammered in the other two by elections, as they have in all the other recent ones in the last few years.

They didn't get hammered in Uxbridge, because they'd successfully made it into a vote on a local issue on one very specific item.

KEITH MUST CONDEMN

 

[shmmeee]

The most recent cat parc data says that the average life of cars prior to scrap is at an all time high

It’s not 18 years tho!

 

[Ian1779]

49117 voted in 2019 in that constituency
30925 voted yesterday

I appreciate that mid term by-elections have a lower turnout, but there were potentially 19000 active voters out there (not counting the ones that didn’t vote in either) and no-one thought it was worth trying to engage some of these??

 

[Grendel]

It’s not 18 years tho!

no it’s 14 but diesel will be a percentage of that.

 

[PVA]

49117 voted in 2019 in that constituency
30925 voted yesterday

I appreciate that mid term by-elections have a lower turnout, but there were potentially 19000 active voters out there (not counting the ones that didn’t vote in either) and no-one thought it was worth trying to engage some of these??

I don't disagree with that at all.

Maybe we're arguing two different things.

The point is that this was a one issue vote, it's not representative of the the electorate as a whole. The overall average vote share of these three elections is consistent with how the Tories are polling nationally.

 

[shmmeee]

no it’s 14 but diesel will be a percentage of that.

It’s 10. And as I said diesel was a mistake that really the government should be paying for as people were just following their advice in a lot of cases.

 

[Grendel]

Christ it's really not difficult.

The tories got hammered in the other two by elections, as they have in all the other recent ones in the last few years.

They didn't get hammered in Uxbridge, because they'd successfully made it into a vote on a local issue on one very specific item.

KEITH MUST CONDEMN

The northern seat had no more labour and liberal votes than 2019

Lib Dems historically often win these sort of results as they put huge resource and effort in. They’ve been doing it for years. It’s not even in the top 5 swings - even the biggest at 34% they lost the seat at the general election


There was a vast number of voters (as many as voted) who felt so “angry” they didn’t even vote did they?

 

[Grendel]

I don't disagree with that at all.

Maybe we're arguing two different things.

The point is that this was a one issue vote, it's not representative of the the electorate as a whole. The overall average vote share of these three elections is consistent with how the Tories are polling nationally.

no he’s not arguing two different things - how can it be a one issue vote when half the electorate isn’t voting

 

[Grendel]

It’s 10. And as I said diesel was a mistake that really the government should be paying for as people were just following their advice in a lot of cases.

I think that’s the average age in the parc 10 million cars are over 15 years old

Britain’s cars getting older, but van ownership reaches historic highs

Total vehicles in use on UK roads falls to 40.35m units – the first drop since 2009. Average age of car rises to 8.4 years old – the oldest on record – with almost 10m vehicles from 2008 and earlier still in service. Vans reach historic highs, up to 4.6m, but declines recorded in truck, bus and...

www.smmt.co.uk

It’s the scrap age not the average age I think that’s higher

 

[PVA]

no he’s not arguing two different things - how can it be a one issue vote when half the electorate isn’t voting

Fucking hell.

 

[Grendel]

Fucking hell.

Well you seem to be on your own with your brilliant political analysis - so carry on - well O Day I’m his morning meltdown was also doing the same.

Oddly the other two bi elections are totally unrepresentative of what will happen in those seats at a general election but those it seems are indications of something else

 

[Grendel]

Yes only a very tiny number

Standard right wing tactic of weaponising am issue so that people who aren't even affected by it become scared of it.

This is particularly amusing given who actually dreamt up this idea

 

[PVA]

Well you seem to be on your own with your brilliant political analysis - so carry on - well O Day I’m his morning meltdown was also doing the same.

Oddly the other two bi elections are totally unrepresentative of what will happen in those seats at a general election but those it seems are indications of something else

Oh and John Curtice. But yeah carry on.

 

[PVA]

This is particularly amusing given who actually dreamt up this idea

Have a look at the Tory candidate's twitter page.

 

[JAM See]

The Tories ripped the manufacturing heart out of Britain in the '80s because of idealogy.

Coal, oil, steel, motoring etc. all sacrificed to fund a few tax cuts and to sell off the social housing stock.

Now we're arguing about a policy that demonstratively makes people healthier.

What a fucking shitshow.

 

[Grendel]

The Tories ripped the manufacturing heart out of Britain in the '80s because of idealogy.

Coal, oil, steel, motoring etc. all sacrificed to fund a few tax cuts and to sell off the social housing stock.

Now we're arguing about a policy that demonstratively makes people healthier.

What a fucking shitshow.

Mr Starmer seems to not be too enthused about said policy

 

[TomRad85]

The Tories ripped the manufacturing heart out of Britain in the '80s because of idealogy.

Coal, oil, steel, motoring etc. all sacrificed to fund a few tax cuts and to sell off the social housing stock.

Now we're arguing about a policy that demonstratively makes people healthier.

What a fucking shitshow.

If it was about health you wouldn't be able to pay to use your gas guzzler, it would just be banned. Its just another way of extracting money from people.

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[Grendel]

If it was about health you wouldn't be able to pay to use your gas guzzler, it would just be banned. Its just another way of extracting money from people.

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It seems it impacts hardly anyone but the working classes are so stupid those even those with no car are whipped up into a frenzy and are voting Tory. Those thick stupid people - no doubt the same as voted for Brexit.

My experience this week of spending nearly 30 miles on the North London Circular suggests it might impact a fair few

 

[PVA]

Those thick stupid people - no doubt the same as voted for Brexit.

Finally an admission!

 

[Grendel]

Finally an admission!

Incredible and disturbing in equal measure

 

[PVA]

Incredible and disturbing in equal measure

I know right, imagine voting to destroy your own country. Finally something we agree on.

 

[skybluetony176]

1.2M vehicles on the DVLA database are ULEZ exempt because they’re historic vehicles. The percentages of percentages get smaller and smaller the more you look into it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I know right, imagine voting to destroy your own country. Finally something we agree on.

It's pretty telling that you believe that leaving the EU is the issue

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[Grendel]

It's pretty telling that you believe that leaving the EU is the issue

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Very

 

[PVA]

It's pretty telling that you believe that leaving the EU is the issue

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Brexit is the issue. It doesn't matter how you try and spin it, or how you try and justify it - you voted to wreck the country.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Brexit is the issue. It doesn't matter how you try and spin it, or how you try and justify it - you voted to wreck the country.

Why do you think brexit happened?

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[JAM See]

Why do you think brexit happened?

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Start here. And finish here. It's all you need.

https://www.waterstones.com/book/heroic-failure/fintan-otoole/9781789540994

 

[skybluetony176]

Why do you think brexit happened?

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Was it because of immigrants?

No wait. Was it because they stole our bendy bananas.

No wait. Was it because they stole our blue passports?

No wait. Was it because they forced the metric system upon us?

No wait. Was it so we could join the CPTPP?

Was it so Boris could PM?

Was so the Tories could win w2019 election?

 

[Ian1779]

Brexit is the issue. It doesn't matter how you try and spin it, or how you try and justify it - you voted to wreck the country.

Even if this true, Starmer ‘now is not the time’ mantra is hardly the solution is it?

 

[PVA]

Why do you think brexit happened?

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So many reasons, that I can't be bothered to go into right now, because it's been done a million times.

Virtually all of them utter rubbish though, as is now being proved.

 

[PVA]

Start here. And finish here. It's all you need.

https://www.waterstones.com/book/heroic-failure/fintan-otoole/9781789540994

I haven't read that book, but O'Toole really is excellent

 

[PVA]

Even if this true, Starmer ‘now is not the time’ mantra is hardly the solution is it?

What is the solution though? It's absolutely fucked us.

We need closer ties to Europe, and Starmer has said as much.

 

[JAM See]

I haven't read that book, but O'Toole really is excellent

It is really funny and scabrous. If you have a local library still open after (call me) Dave and Gideon's austerity, go and borrow it.

Well worth a read.

 

[skybluetony176]

Even if this true, Starmer ‘now is not the time’ mantra is hardly the solution is it?

I think to some degree he’s right. Tactically. Get into power. Then start being frank about the harsh reality of brexit. If he does it in opposition the Tories and their compliant press will use it against him. His best chance of winning the next GE is to make it about anything but brexit. Too many people still in denial.