Our midfield - do we have problems? (5 Viewers)

[covcity4life]

Me, and he is! And today didn't say different, in my humble opinion

Pretty sure robins was alluding to him with the confidence thing. He went back immediately. Not that he can be blamed for Thomas fucking up tho

 

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[Speedies_Chips]

We weren't no , but the point is if you score 3 at home you should really win

If you concede 3 at home you normally lose.

 

[Hobo]

We looked like an upper mid-table side to me, not a lot more.

What did we look like after 5 games last season?

 

[Briles]

Few thoughts here.... Thread to discuss

So, a midfield of:

Sheaf - Eccles

Palmer

Gap between Sheaf/Eccles and Palmer too big?
Sheaf/ Eccles both like minded.
As Robins alluded to - nothing at present to properly knit front to back (and we didn't sign anything either)
Today's change of Ayari for Eccles was pretty disasterous - Ayari not suited to play there and was all over the shop.
Ayari for Palmer would have been like for like. Ayari for Eccles opened us right up.
Only like for like change is Kelly. (Offers nothing)
Lose Sheaf and midfield is below average.Carried the middle today.

OHare coming back is a like for like for Palmer/Ayari...

For me, we are lacking.....

Let the thread commence......

Lati plays cm for Jamaica I believe, another option.

 

[Adge]

I think Eccles was the issue today. Really went off the boil after his booking which I thought was unfair but am prepared to be corrected on.

It’s not the first time this season that Eccles has thrown himself on the ground to try and get a foul and today it caught up with him and he was correctly cautioned. Had an absolute stinker of a game and to me is always going to be one of them ten a penny midfielders and another one is playing in the academy somewhere.
I thought against Sunderland last week that he had a reasonable game and some argued that he was man of the match. But a pal stated that he couldn’t recall any standout moments of quality and to be fair he had a point…….

 

[Gibbo]

The midfield problem is mainly but not totally numbers. We previously had four in midfield led by Hamer. Now we have three with only Palmer who 'makes things happen'. And Godden is not the player to fill the gap.

Take your pick, two strikers or four in midfield?

 

[Briles]

It’s not the first time this season that Eccles has thrown himself on the ground to try and get a foul and today it caught up with him and he was correctly cautioned. Had an absolute stinker of a game and to me is always going to be one of them ten a penny midfielders and another one is playing in the academy somewhere.
I thought against Sunderland last week that he had a reasonable game and some argued that he was man of the match. But a pal stated that he couldn’t recall any standout moments of quality and to be fair he had a point…….

Eccles I've always had in the same bracket as Shipley

 

[Gibbo]

It’s not the first time this season that Eccles has thrown himself on the ground to try and get a foul and today it caught up with him and he was correctly cautioned. Had an absolute stinker of a game and to me is always going to be one of them ten a penny midfielders and another one is playing in the academy somewhere.
I thought against Sunderland last week that he had a reasonable game and some argued that he was man of the match. But a pal stated that he couldn’t recall any standout moments of quality and to be fair he had a point…….

I thought Eccles played well, better than Sheaf. At least he did some of the donkey work in midfield. We were underpowered in that department so he was left with a tough job. Disappointed he was subbed.

 

[covcity4life]

Eccles I've always had in the same bracket as Shipley

He is better than Shipley imo

Today he just dwelled on ball too long or made poor passes.

It happens but the bigger issue is him and sheaf too similar. We something else in the middle 2

 

[Briles]

He is better than Shipley imo

Today he just dwelled on ball too long or made poor passes.

It happens but the bigger issue is him and sheaf too similar. We something else in the middle 2

Yeah he is better. By bracket I just mean, he's there. Nothing special and nothing awful just ..there. if he's going to progress this needs to be his season whilst he's apparently first choice.

 

[covcity4life]

Yeah he is better. By bracket I just mean, he's there. Nothing special and nothing awful just ..there. if he's going to progress this needs to be his season whilst he's apparently first choice.

I get that. I think he does perhaps have room to grow out of that bracket though possibly

 

[hamertime]

Godden scores that pen and we win there is no discussion about midfield. We’ve been unlucky so far this season and it will click. It’s going to take Robins a while to work out his best team, this is a complete rebuild but the ingredients are there.

 

[Briles]

I get that. I think he does perhaps have room to grow out of that bracket though possibly

Robins seems to think so, and I hope so

 

[covcity4life]

Godden scores that pen and we win there is no discussion about midfield. We’ve been unlucky so far this season and it will click. It’s going to take Robins a while to work out his best team, this is a complete rebuild but the ingredients are there.

Why do we win lol. Could have gone on to concede the way the game was open.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

Ayari, while clearly talented, is so far off competitve football at this level is unbelievable

How many minutes have you seen him play in total?

 

[rexo87]

Personally think the solution is getting another player in that midfield

Wilson

MVE Thomas Kitchen Dasilva

Eccles Lati Sheaf

Palmer

Godden Wright

The problem then is you miss a lot of the effectiveness of the wingbacks. I'd still want them bombing on but you'd need two of the CMs to be prepared to cover the gaps out wide that could be left

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[pusbccfc]

Lati plays cm for Jamaica I believe, another option.

Slightly different standard though. From what I gather, he's played against minnows for Jamaica

 

[Yorkshire SB]

It is concerning. Sheaf is outstanding but he’s going to be a tired man in a couple of months.

I’d try Lati alongside him when Kitching is in. As others have said I’d consider a back four (in possession at least), with Lati, Sheaf and Allen in the middle. Lati could hold and effectively move into a back 3 when we don’t have the ball.

 

[pusbccfc]

Any decent ones out there on a free????

Josh Onomah, Luke Amos, Liam Bridcutt and Dan Gosling are the names currently without a club.

 

[usskyblue]

Does anyone else think Palmer plays too high up the pitch? He’s been like a third attacker, rather than slotting in behind.. it’s creating a gap between him and Sheaf/Eccles and it makes any transition play way more choppy imo

What did become obvious today was we desperately need to get Ayari up to speed. I know he’s more of a 10 but he looked way off the pace. We will need him to fill in for Palmer if OHare’s still a ways off.

 

[stupot07]

Does anyone else think Palmer plays too high up the pitch? He’s been like a third attacker, rather than slotting in behind.. it’s creating a gap between him and Sheaf/Eccles and it makes any transition play way more choppy imo

What did become obvious today was we desperately need to get Ayari up to speed. I know he’s more of a 10 but he looked way off the pace. We will need him to fill in for Palmer if OHare’s still a ways off.

Completely agree. It's like we're playing 343 /523, not 3412 both on and off the ball he is too high for me and like you say it's like he's playing as a third attacker both on and off the ball. Means he's too far away and on the same line as Godden and Wright when we have the ball with too much gap between the Sheaf/Eccles and then off the ball it leaves too much room for the opposition in midfield and too much space for Sheaf and Eccles to cover.

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[covcity4life]

Does anyone else think Palmer plays too high up the pitch? He’s been like a third attacker, rather than slotting in behind.. it’s creating a gap between him and Sheaf/Eccles and it makes any transition play way more choppy imo

What did become obvious today was we desperately need to get Ayari up to speed. I know he’s more of a 10 but he looked way off the pace. We will need him to fill in for Palmer if OHare’s still a ways off.

No. He's always threading throughballz into both strikers from behind them

He might press as one of a 3 at time shit I imagine that's how robins wants it done

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Club have dropped a clanger, I think we are close to having a very good side but are now missing the most important cog to that.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

For me theres 3 things as to why Sheaf Eccles doesnt work from what I've see

Firstly there doesnt seem to be an understanding or much cohesion. They are either treading on each others toes, or so far apart there is a huge gap allowing runners to go at the CB's

Secondly, Eccles first thought is to always go sideways or back. Doesnt have defence splitting passes in his locker.

Lastly, its always Sheaf who gets the ball, turns and tries to build an attack. Eccles 9 times out of 10 knocks it back to a centre half.

Sheaf is class, and Eccles is a good player, but they don't work. Too much of a muchness, and i really think not bringing someone in who can drive us forward from deep or play a 50 yard crossfield ball to switch the play, is already costing us and to be honest, will cost us a chance of top 6 this season. Caveat that of course with Ayari, if he comes good maybe he will be the one

I don't agree with all of that I'm afraid. The negativity towards Eccles, Allen, and Palmer is causing Sheaf to get exaggerated. He can't go forward. The last two games he's wasted some of our best chances and when he's not in a high attacking midfield position he frequently loses possession by playing long balls that don't reach their target. Somehow a lot of his greatest fans appear to have gone to buy hotdogs every time this happens.

He's strong in the DM position generally, and does make some great challenges at times, but even there he switches off and has been partially to blame for a few goals this season. People were quick to blame Thomas for their second today, but Sheaf absolutely flapped putting any kind of challenge in too.

People don't want to hear it, but in general we need an upgrade across the whole midfield. To answer the OP, yes we do have a problem. None of them are an exception. Before today Eccles was our best midfielder this season, and whilst I like him, we need someone more in the Hamer mould if we are going to reach the next level. The rest of the pitch I feel will grow into it, but in the middle I think we are crying out for more quality.

 

[JohnWH]

What did we look like after 5 games last season?

Norwich defeats City 3-0 for City's 5th game. Palmer & Walker started, with Gyok and Tavares sub in for the pair in 2nd half.

Most teams had played 8 games at that point. Norwich goes top of league, City at dead last. 0-1-4.
Wigan beat Luton away, same day.

Yeah so I guess a good reminder that 5 games into a season might be a bit too early to draw realistic conclusions for anyone.

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

In terms of space the O'Hare of old would cover more ground than Palmer, and probably knit in more closely with Sheaf & Eccles. What we don't know yet is if we will get to see the O'Hare of old, or whether the injuries will have a long term effect on him.

 

[clint van damme]

How many minutes have you seen him play in total?

Not many, but it's clear to see he's talented but inexperienced and Robins has said similar to me.

 

[TomRad85]

I don't agree with all of that I'm afraid. The negativity towards Eccles, Allen, and Palmer is causing Sheaf to get exaggerated. He can't go forward. The last two games he's wasted some of our best chances and when he's not in a high attacking midfield position he frequently loses possession by playing long balls that don't reach their target. Somehow a lot of his greatest fans appear to have gone to buy hotdogs every time this happens.

He's strong in the DM position generally, and does make some great challenges at times, but even there he switches off and has been partially to blame for a few goals this season. People were quick to blame Thomas for their second today, but Sheaf absolutely flapped putting any kind of challenge in too.

People don't want to hear it, but in general we need an upgrade across the whole midfield. To answer the OP, yes we do have a problem. None of them are an exception. Before today Eccles was our best midfielder this season, and whilst I like him, we need someone more in the Hamer mould if we are going to reach the next level. The rest of the pitch I feel will grow into it, but in the middle I think we are crying out for more quality.

I think your Sheaf bashing is a bit bizarre but I do actually agree with you on yesterday. I didn't think he was particularly good and also noticed he was very slow to get across and help Thomas for the second goal.

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[Sky Blue Harry H]

Not many, but it's clear to see he's talented but inexperienced and Robins has said similar to me.

Fair enough - I'm going to rewatch the game later (this time without several pints of Madri in me) and then I'll probably see what ypu saw!

 

[clint van damme]

Fair enough - I'm going to rewatch the game later (this time without several pints of Madri in me) and then I'll probably see what ypu saw!

People keep saying we need a Hamer replacement, but this time last year we didn't have the same Gus that finished the season and dragged us to the play offs so hopefully he can develop over the next month or two and be that player we need.

 

[PVA]

Allen will be a welcome addition back in the squad, but he isn't the answer to the midfield issues and certainly isn't the answer at CM.

 

[djr8369]

Watford were excellent with their high press, they practically suffocated Sheaf and Eccles. This is when we need McFadz and Wilson to engage their in game brain and occasionally go a bit longer. Because there is a gap behind the press. We actually started to do it last season to effect.

We don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water and abandon playing out from the back, but we do need to be flexible and have variation.

Watford have a few players that can really hurt you. But the main problem is we let them fluster us and never really got a grip of the game. But there was also plenty of positives.

I don't think Ayari was played out of position at all. I don't think he was all over the shop either. I do think he was trying to influence the game and put us on the front foot when he came on. He is still settling in and will be a good player for us this season.

One of the few sane responses to yesterdays game.

 

[clint van damme]

One of the few sane responses to yesterdays game.

It's the first time I've read it and the first paragraph is a bit baffling to be honest because we did, at times, mix it up and go long yesterday and I thought it was pretty effective with Wright looking a handful.

 

[SkyblueDad]

Allen will be a welcome addition back in the squad, but he isn't the answer to the midfield issues and certainly isn't the answer at CM.

His presence in the team is very under valued, undeservedly in my opinion became the fans boo boy last season but the ground he covers all match is unbelievable scores the odd goal too, I think he will fit in perfectly in our midfield at the moment.

 

[shmmeee]

No. He's always threading throughballz into both strikers from behind them

He might press as one of a 3 at time shit I imagine that's how robins wants it done

We’ve always played three pressing from the front. Even when Hamer was one of the three.