Our midfield - do we have problems? (5 Viewers)

[fatso]

This is it. Both have been good for us and both are decent players. Although I think they are a bit too like minded and neither are very creative any midfield pairing would have struggled today because Watford used their two banks of three to overload the midfield. Out of possession they pressed hard and once they won the ball always had an extra player or two.

Palmer did some good work helping out at times but wants to be in the final third. We probably needed to go one up front and have an extra midfielder today IMO.

The thing that people are missing is that Watford played really well today, they overloaded midfield, and pressed with fantastic energy.

Our midfield wasn't too bad at all, we just need to be tidier on the ball and not gift possession away so easily.

We actually scored 3 goals at home for the second time in 3 games, so there's no need to panic. If anything the game was most noticeable for defensive blunders.

 

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[djr8369]

The thing that people are missing is that Watford played really well today, they overloaded midfield, and pressed with fantastic energy.

Our midfield wasn't too bad at all, we just need to be tidier on the ball and not gift possession away so easily.

We actually scored 3 goals at home for the second time in 3 games, so there's no need to panic. If anything the game was most noticeable for defensive blunders.

Agreed and said as much yesterday. You put Hamer in for Eccles yesterday and it solves very little.

 

[djr8369]

It's the first time I've read it and the first paragraph is a bit baffling to be honest because we did, at times, mix it up and go long yesterday and I thought it was pretty effective with Wright looking a handful.

We did but not enough as Robins acknowledged in his interview. It was odd really you’d think the coaching staff would give the instruction during half time to play long to Wright more. With the Watford front 3 pressing high and two up front it was the time to do it. Instead we largely played it out, our back 3 were instantly pressed and had to try and work it to Sheaf and Eccles, who had Watfords middle 3 on them. We were constantly under pressure in possession.

Where it tended to work was when we used the wing backs but then half the time they didn’t have an outlet.

 

[Boicey]

The main problem is basically playing 3 upfront and getting overrun in midfield.
Godden and particularly Palmer just dont have the engine or inclination to help commit to fix that big problem.
I guess Palmer has to be benched for Ayari, Sakamoto because we cant carry on like this and Godden is scoring.
A difficult one for Robins as he likes Palmer.

 

[shmmeee]

The main problem is basically playing 3 upfront and getting overrun in midfield.
Godden and particularly Palmer just dont have the engine or inclination to help commit to fix that big problem.
I guess Palmer has to be benched for Ayari, Sakamoto because we cant carry on like this and Godden is scoring.
A difficult one for Robins as he likes Palmer.

Palmer is the only creative force in the team. Drop him and watch us do nothing going forwards. Ayari is too lazy and too slight to make a difference. Sakamoto is a wide player and isn’t going to take the ball in the middle and progress it like Palmer. Allen would give you the energy but at the expense of being able to progress the ball or win it back. O’Hare is the only AM we have who can also run all day and put tackles in. And we don’t know how he’ll come back.

The problem is Eccles lack of energy and progressiveness. We know this because not having O’Hare wasn’t an issue last season. We’ve got no one effective buzzing around making challenges, offering for the ball, and switching play/progressing us forwards.

 

[fatso]

The main problem is basically playing 3 upfront and getting overrun in midfield.
Godden and particularly Palmer just dont have the engine or inclination to help commit to fix that big problem.
I guess Palmer has to be benched for Ayari, Sakamoto because we cant carry on like this and Godden is scoring.
A difficult one for Robins as he likes Palmer.

We scored 3 goals at home and had a penalty saved.

It's defensive errors that cost us.
Nothing to do with Godden or Palmer.

 

[shmmeee]

We scored 3 goals at home and has a penalty saved.

It's defensive errors that cost us.
Nothing to do with Godden or Palmer.

An I think when you’re blaming your AM for your defensive frailties you’re stretching a bit. Bar MvE the back six had a shocker. There’s not much more to it.

 

[fatso]

An I think when you’re blaming your AM for your defensive frailties you’re stretching a bit. Bar MvE the back six had a shocker. There’s not much more to it.

Exactly, and yea MvE is getting better every game, he's going to be some player.

 

[clint van damme]

Exactly, and yea MvE is getting better every game, he's going to be some player.

Same with Wright, both coming on leaps and bounds every game.

 

[Boicey]

We scored 3 goals at home and had a penalty saved.

It's defensive errors that cost us.
Nothing to do with Godden or Palmer.

You missed the bit about getting overrun in midfield.

 

[Boicey]

Palmer is the only creative force in the team. Drop him and watch us do nothing going forwards. Ayari is too lazy and too slight to make a difference. Sakamoto is a wide player and isn’t going to take the ball in the middle and progress it like Palmer. Allen would give you the energy but at the expense of being able to progress the ball or win it back. O’Hare is the only AM we have who can also run all day and put tackles in. And we don’t know how he’ll come back.

The problem is Eccles lack of energy and progressiveness. We know this because not having O’Hare wasn’t an issue last season. We’ve got no one effective buzzing around making challenges, offering for the ball, and switching play/progressing us forwards.

We can't carry on as we are. Else we will be in trouble by the time COH, Allen are back.

 

[speedie87]

Does anyone else think Palmer plays too high up the pitch? He’s been like a third attacker, rather than slotting in behind.. it’s creating a gap between him and Sheaf/Eccles and it makes any transition play way more choppy imo

What did become obvious today was we desperately need to get Ayari up to speed. I know he’s more of a 10 but he looked way off the pace. We will need him to fill in for Palmer if OHare’s still a ways off.

100% re Palmer we’ve gone from looking solid when other teams had the ball when we used to play 1 up front. To risky with 2 up front, to kamikaze with now 3 players often ahead of the ball when opposition have it.
If you watch premier league and champions league it’s very rare teams keep anyone ahead of ball when opposition have it

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

We may need to calm down a little. Ismael’s teams are notoriously tough to play against as probably the best pressing teams around.

Yes, mistakes made and lessons to be learned, and this is the time to do that early on.

Their goals:

1st goal - Thomas and JDS were not close enough to the guy who got the cross in

2nd goal - MVE was tracking the guy that floated in as he went to high up and then Thomas wasn’t again close enough to the watford player for the shot.

3rd goal - Thomas gifted them the goal.

Thomas with MVE isn’t working in my opinion as there are major gaps between their space. Lati will probably be more disciplined on that side.

 

[The Philosopher]

It looks to me that we have to change formation to accommodate the players we have.

Early last season, I got verbal surgery from the know-it-alls on here when I said we needed to shift Hamer further forward to AM / Box-To-Box.

“Change where our best CDM plays? Clueless” was the common comment.

Vik pulling defenders out of shape left room for Hamer to run into the middle.

This season we are suffering and struggling to get forward down the middle. Sheaf and Eccles / Kelly are ok sitting in and passing to flanks but opposing teams have seen this and set up accordingly.

Wright and Sims can’t quite do the Vik role also, Godden cannot pull wide and run in. The guy can sure finish though.

Maybe we use the subs system to play box first half.

Maybe put Tats and MVE as forward box to overlap with WB who cut in. We’ve no one through the middle (atm) who can bomb forward so adapting to that seems the best use of what we have.

Eccles RWB, switching / cutting with MVE in Right AM, JDS and Tats doing the same left. Having AM’s who have defensive ability means we can press high.

Kelly CDM with Sheaf passing wide / through

Wright up top.

Godden impact sub to play solo getting on to pull backs like yesterday.

We built the team around Gus and Vik last season. Trying to play the same way is for the birds. MR has changed the formation often before and I think needs to do so again.

 

[SBT]

Bar MvE the back six had a shocker.

I agree, MvE was our best defender yesterday

 

[Rugby Sky Blue]

Godden scores that pen and we win there is no discussion about midfield. We’ve been unlucky so far this season and it will click. It’s going to take Robins a while to work out his best team, this is a complete rebuild but the ingredients are there.

If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle and al that. 3 points may have papered over the cracks for a short while but at the end of the day we should have replaced Hamer.

 

[Earlsdon-Loyal-Blue]

We have a massive Hamer shaped hole in our team that we didn’t fill. Absolutely criminal that we didn’t bring in a replacement and it’ll probably cost us this season.

The lack of creative quality in the middle of the pitch is exaggerated by us playing with no wingers or width; we are dependent on play making through the middle. The lack of replacement for Hamer is going to cost us big time.

I’m sure in all of Europe there was a under 25 y/o box to box midfielder out there for us - I don’t get why we obsessed with Kitchin.

 

[higgs]

Does anyone else think Palmer plays too high up the pitch? He’s been like a third attacker, rather than slotting in behind.. it’s creating a gap between him and Sheaf/Eccles and it makes any transition play way more choppy imo

What did become obvious today was we desperately need to get Ayari up to speed. I know he’s more of a 10 but he looked way off the pace. We will need him to fill in for Palmer if OHare’s still a ways off.

Would we just play simms instead of him and go 3 up top

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[shmmeee]

Agreed and said as much yesterday. You put Hamer in for Eccles yesterday and it solves very little.

I think you’re less likely to walk the ball from back to front against us with Hamer in the team TBH.

 

[covcity4life]

Not many, but it's clear to see he's talented but inexperienced and Robins has said similar to me.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We may need to calm down a little. Ismael’s teams are notoriously tough to play against as probably the best pressing teams around.

Yes, mistakes made and lessons to be learned, and this is the time to do that early on.

Their goals:

1st goal - Thomas and JDS were not close enough to the guy who got the cross in

2nd goal - MVE was tracking the guy that floated in as he went to high up and then Thomas wasn’t again close enough to the watford player for the shot.

3rd goal - Thomas gifted them the goal.

Thomas with MVE isn’t working in my opinion as there are major gaps between their space. Lati will probably be more disciplined on that side.

You are missing that possession was also gifted away quite softly to allow the first two goals. In fact both teams were really quite sloppy with the ball but they appeared to get away with it more often than not.

 

[stupot07]

You are missing that possession was also gifted away quite softly to allow the first two goals. In fact both teams were really quite sloppy with the ball but they appeared to get away with it more often than not.

Exactly, and it's giving the easy possession away when the team is out of shape which is why there a big gaps and people out of position.

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[Grendel]

Does anyone else think Palmer plays too high up the pitch? He’s been like a third attacker, rather than slotting in behind.. it’s creating a gap between him and Sheaf/Eccles and it makes any transition play way more choppy imo

What did become obvious today was we desperately need to get Ayari up to speed. I know he’s more of a 10 but he looked way off the pace. We will need him to fill in for Palmer if OHare’s still a ways off.

Well he is effectively a third forward - with Hamers energy you could get away with it (though his performances improved when his role changed)

It’s funny as certain posters laugh about old fashioned football - but old fashioned football was full of palmers - the likes of Bowles and Currie whose focus was purely flair

The modern game is a lot more demanding. Rooney worked incredibly hard to develop his overall game - in the 70’s he would not have to

Robins teams are normally very disciplined and regimented in their approach - yesterday was as disjointed as I’ve seen a robins team really and the midfield just became one player trying to link everything

Palmer can’t change - that’s for sure so we either play one upfront with an extra midfield player or we hope O hare is fit sooner rather than later

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Exactly, and it's giving the easy possession away when the team is out of shape which is why there a big gaps and people out of position.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

The way we play relies on high cohesion in the group. When that’s still developing due to a massive influx of new players, you’re going to see more mistakes early on.

We got away with them against Boro, didn’t yesterday.

 

[Northants Sky Blue]

5 players for 1xAM spot (Palmer Ohare Ayari Saka Allen)
3 players for 2xDM spots (Sheaf Eccles Kelly)

I know its not as easy as "just getting a body in" but MR clearly wants to play 2 up top and the imbalance is glaring

And if someone trots out Lati at DM for the 1856746th time Im gonna jump out a window!

 

[Grendel]

5 players for 1xAM spot (Palmer Ohare Ayari Saka Allen)
3 players for 2xDM spots (Sheaf Eccles Kelly)

I know its not as easy as "just getting a body in" but MR clearly wants to play 2 up top and the imbalance is glaring

And if someone trots out Lati at DM for the 1856746th time Im gonna jump out a window!

Excellent summary of the issue - Allen can be flexible but yes that is the problem

 

[The Philosopher]

5 players for 1xAM spot (Palmer Ohare Ayari Saka Allen)
3 players for 2xDM spots (Sheaf Eccles Kelly)

I know its not as easy as "just getting a body in" but MR clearly wants to play 2 up top and the imbalance is glaring

And if someone trots out Lati at DM for the 1856746th time Im gonna jump out a window!

How about Lati for DM?

 

[covcity4life]

Well Yari did play CM yday so let's see if robins can coach him to fit it more.

 

[PVA]

5 players for 1xAM spot (Palmer Ohare Ayari Saka Allen)
3 players for 2xDM spots (Sheaf Eccles Kelly)

I know its not as easy as "just getting a body in" but MR clearly wants to play 2 up top and the imbalance is glaring

And if someone trots out Lati at DM for the 1856746th time Im gonna jump out a window!

Ayari can play either position.

 

[shmmeee]

Ayari is clearly seen as a CM. Saka is a wide player. People need to stop classifying people rigidly to back up their point.

 

[djr8369]

I think you’re less likely to walk the ball from back to front against us with Hamer in the team TBH.

Less likely yes because he was so dynamic but it doesn’t change the fundamentals of Watford overloading the midfield and pressing us out of possession.

 

[Hobo]

Less likely yes because he was so dynamic but it doesn’t change the fundamentals of Watford overloading the midfield and pressing us out of possession.

And we suffered from it a few times last season when Hamer was in the side. People have forgot, as good as he was, he wasn't bang at it every week.

 

[djr8369]

Does anyone else think Palmer plays too high up the pitch? He’s been like a third attacker, rather than slotting in behind.. it’s creating a gap between him and Sheaf/Eccles and it makes any transition play way more choppy imo

Yes, absolutely. As I keep saying the midfield were overloaded. Put Hamer in there the situation is slightly better but only slightly and it doesn’t change the fundamentals.
People are hung up on the performances of individuals but for me the issue yesterday was more setup and tactics.

 

[covboy9]

Desperately need ohare back

palmer is a talented footballer but sadly not a professional because he cannot do 90mins

 

[The Philosopher]

Desperately need ohare back

palmer is a talented footballer but sadly not a professional because he cannot do 90mins

5 subs and 9 bench means certain players should be tasked to give 150% for 60 mins with the strategy for game-changers to go full gun 35-40.

Changing times.