Our midfield - do we have problems? (1 Viewer)

[ccfc1234]

I agree with those who talk about nerves regarding other injury. We including Callum have seen how things went for Jodie and I really hope he can put everything behind him. The fact he is back so soon shows he is a good healer.

 

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[Hertsccfc]

I agree with those who talk about nerves regarding other injury. We including Callum have seen how things went for Jodie and I really hope he can put everything behind him. The fact he is back so soon shows he is a good healer.

I just hope we don't rush him back too soon. I would rather wait a few months than have another Jodi Jones situation. He's too much of an asset to take unnecessary risks with.

 

[stupot07]

We’ve spent £10m or as near as makes no difference on wing backs and defenders.

Over £10m on strikers to develop.

£0 on central midfielders. We have a teenage loanee who we might develop but never own.

There is little doubt that MR wanted to bring in midfielders, so anyone saying we are ok in that department needs a reality pill.

Sheaf and Eccles and Kelly are not top level championship midfielders.

Our attacking midfielders cannot be relied upon fitness wise, the loanee and Tats are completely unknown quantities.

We needed a midfielder or two. We didn’t get one.

That means we still need one.

Fairly straightforward.

We either wait until Jan, hope for the best or sign a free agent.

Fairly straightforward.

I agree with most of this apart from the suggestion that Sheaf is not a top level championship midfielder, which is bilge.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

[napolimp]

I love people saying Eccles isn't the player to help us into the top 6, when he made 34 appearances last season (1 less than Sheaf), and racked up 2 and a half thousand minutes, in a team which finished in the top 6.

 

[Grendel]

I love people saying Eccles isn't the player to help us into the top 6, when he made 34 appearances last season (1 less than Sheaf), and racked up 2 and a half thousand minutes, in a team which finished in the top 6.

Many say the same about Jamie Allen

 

[napolimp]

I just hope we don't rush him back too soon. I would rather wait a few months than have another Jodi Jones situation. He's too much of an asset to take unnecessary risks with.

If anything, the Jodi Jones situation shows a player can come back from even the worst possible situation. Fingers crossed for O'hare.

 

[Grendel]

Well he is effectively a third forward - with Hamers energy you could get away with it (though his performances improved when his role changed)

It’s funny as certain posters laugh about old fashioned football - but old fashioned football was full of palmers - the likes of Bowles and Currie whose focus was purely flair

The modern game is a lot more demanding. Rooney worked incredibly hard to develop his overall game - in the 70’s he would not have to

Robins teams are normally very disciplined and regimented in their approach - yesterday was as disjointed as I’ve seen a robins team really and the midfield just became one player trying to link everything

Palmer can’t change - that’s for sure so we either play one upfront with an extra midfield player or we hope O hare is fit sooner rather than later

So @Hertsccfc is this not an intelligent comment?

 

[Hertsccfc]

So @Hertsccfc is this not an intelligent comment?

Well done. Gold star.

So just proved it is possible to have a sensible debate.

 

[skybluecam]

Did you only start supporting us this season?

Yes, I made my account back in 2015 in anticipation of becoming a fan 8 years later.

Also the season ticket I’ve had for 20 years suddenly came in handy!

 

[skybluecam]

Imagine if we never replaced Vik when he was sold and kept Walker instead,

Walker is going too far.

But look at what we’ve done for strikers. Spent big on two after losing Vik, while still having Godden who can compete.

Should ideally have done the same in central midfield.

 

[Grendel]

Yes, I made my account back in 2015 in anticipation of becoming a fan 8 years later.

Also the season ticket I’ve had for 20 years suddenly came in handy!

PVA is confused. He’s not sure what a season ticket is.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

Robins teams are normally very disciplined and regimented in their approach - yesterday was as disjointed as I’ve seen a robins team really and the midfield just became one player trying to link everything

Palmer can’t change - that’s for sure so we either play one upfront with an extra midfield player or we hope O hare is fit sooner rather than later

Completely agree, and I think that going with just Wright up front and having 4 in the midfield is starting to look like a good option. At the very least trying something different with the strikers or the midfielders, maybe having Simms and Wright together, not because Godden is bad but might just offer something different. It’s certainly not clicking atm and there’s nothing wrong with giving something different a try, even if it means losing a game because of it, sounds ridiculous I know but if we don’t try we’ll never know.

 

[skybluecam]

I love people saying Eccles isn't the player to help us into the top 6, when he made 34 appearances last season (1 less than Sheaf), and racked up 2 and a half thousand minutes, in a team which finished in the top 6.

At risk of sounding like a broken record

1. The league was much weaker last year

2. He did that while playing alongside Hamer, not replacing him.

Also playing less than 60% of minutes is hardly something to shout about.

 

[shmmeee]

I think he's bought in Ayari to play the Gus role but obviously it's dependant on how long it's going take to get him up to speed, from what I've seen so far, I'd say a while.

I'd also imagine the club had a more permanent solution in mind but couldn't get it over the line.

The other point which a lot of people are missing that I keep mentioning is although Hamer was still a very good player this time last year he was miles away from the player he became in the final 3rd of the season so what's to say someone else in the squad doesn't emerge like he did? Admittedly I can't see anyone getting to that level but players playing to that level in the championship are rare.

Gave you a like for the first bit. This meme that Hamer only became good the last three months of the season is bollocks tho.

 

[clint van damme]

Gave you a like for the first bit. This meme that Hamer only became good the last three months of the season is bollocks tho.

l never said he only became good in the last 3 months, read it again.

 

[shmmeee]

l never said he only became good in the last 3 months, read it again.

Whatever you want to call “emerging” he was one of our top players from the start. Moreso than Vik. Yes he got better and better but his base IMO was always above most of the squad.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Gave you a like for the first bit. This meme that Hamer only became good the last three months of the season is bollocks tho.

Well, he was barely playing this time last year as he was getting sent off all over the shop!

 

[shmmeee]

Well, he was barely playing this time last year as he was getting sent off all over the shop!

You’re right. He was useless. Never one of the big three. We had Sheff Utds pants down for a three month wonder

 

[NorthernWisdom]

You’re right. He was useless. Never one of the big three. We had Sheff Utds pants down for a three month wonder

Yes that's obviously what I said.

 

[clint van damme]

Whatever you want to call “emerging” he was one of our top players from the start. Moreso than Vik. Yes he got better and better but his base IMO was always above most of the squad.

Which is basically what I said. But he went up several levels.
I mean, which way do people want it, he couldn't have been at that level where you could 'play a bag of potatoes alongside him' at the start of the season otherwise we wouldn't have waited 10 games for a win.

 

[clint van damme]

Completely agree, and I think that going with just Wright up front and having 4 in the midfield is starting to look like a good option. At the very least trying something different with the strikers or the midfielders, maybe having Simms and Wright together, not because Godden is bad but might just offer something different. It’s certainly not clicking atm and there’s nothing wrong with giving something different a try, even if it means losing a game because of it, sounds ridiculous I know but if we don’t try we’ll never know.

Only 5 teams have scored more goals than us (3 others also on 8).
Our attack is outperforming our defence! 8 teams have conceded less with 2 also on 6.

 

[shmmeee]

Which is basically what I said. But he went up several levels.
I mean, which way do people want it, he couldn't have been at that level where you could 'play a bag of potatoes alongside him' at the start of the season otherwise we wouldn't have waited 10 games for a win.

I didn’t say that was ever the case. But the stuff we’re missing right now in the middle has been there since he arrived. The idea that Josh Eccles is about to break out as a box to box all action midfielder is a little fanciful.

I think Wright and MvE have potential, plus the centrebacks. I really hope Ayari can become a mens footballer, but he’s got a long long way to go.

 

[clint van damme]

I didn’t say that was ever the case. But the stuff we’re missing right now in the middle has been there since he arrived. The idea that Josh Eccles is about to break out as a box to box all action midfielder is a little fanciful.

I think Wright and MvE have potential, plus the centrebacks. I really hope Ayari can become a mens footballer, but he’s got a long long way to go.

I don't think for one minute Eccles will become a box to box midfielder, which is exactly why it's wrong to try and scapegoat him or indeed Sheaf.
They were both fine in there, (had their issues but generally fine), while Hamer 2.0 and Hamer 3.0 did their stuff.
But until someone emerges to fill that role it's not realistic to expect them to fill those shoes, but that doesn't mean they're league one players at best or bilge, that's just nonsense.

 

[JSL]

Keeping clean sheets is a good platform to build upon like post Christmas last season. So far we have only 2 clean sheets n 5 games. Only Wilson and Fadz are constant from last season. The others are bedding in still but the back 5 were to some extent protected by Hamer last season. Adding Kitching should give more balance in the left which is why MR wascso keen on him I assume. It doesn't detract from the fact that a good defensive box to box work horse midfielder would have been a worthy addition but we gavecwhat we have for now unless there's a free agent avaiable

 

[Hertsccfc]

Whatever you want to call “emerging” he was one of our top players from the start. Moreso than Vik. Yes he got better and better but his base IMO was always above most of the squad.

Absolutely. He was brilliant from when he came back from the suspensions. He just got more attention when he went further forward as he scored more but he was just as good before then.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

Only 5 teams have scored more goals than us (3 others also on 8).
Our attack is outperforming our defence! 8 teams have conceded less with 2 also on 6.

Come on I don’t think anyone can really believe that. Our attack is definitely not outperforming our defence. We scored 6 of those 8 goals against 2 teams with very dodgy defences, Boro are having a shocker atm and Watford put the ball in the back of their own for literally no reason whatsoever
In all of the other games so far we’ve scored either 1 goal or 0 goals, we’re clearly lacking an ability to form solid chances. Our defence had a bad day against Watford but other than that we’ve been solid at the back.

 

[clint van damme]

Come on I don’t think anyone can really believe that. Our attack is definitely not outperforming our defence. We scored 6 of those 8 goals against 2 teams with very dodgy defences, Boro are having a shocker atm and Watford put the ball in the back of their own for literally no reason whatsoever
In all of the other games so far we’ve scored either 1 goal or 0 goals, we’re clearly lacking an ability to form solid chances. Our defence had a bad day against Watford but other than that we’ve been solid at the back.

We've played 5 games for fucks sake, so when you say in all other games you mean 3?! The nonsense people try and pull on here to prove their point is incredible.
our attack is out performing our defence, that's a fact.
We need more from both, but we're 5 games in, some of the bed wetting is incredible, have people learnt nothing over the last few years?

 

[JohnWH]

We've played 5 games for fucks sake, so when you say in all other games you mean 3?! The nonsense people try and pull on here to prove their point is incredible.
our attack is out performing our defence, that's a fact.
We need more from both, but we're 5 games in, some of the bed wetting is incredible, have people learnt nothing over the last few years?

But We're still unbeaten in this current month though,

 

[PVA]

PVA is confused. He’s not sure what a season ticket is.

Are you going to keep this painfully boring, dreadfully unfunny, shtick up all season?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't think for one minute Eccles will become a box to box midfielder, which is exactly why it's wrong to try and scapegoat him or indeed Sheaf.
They were both fine in there, (had their issues but generally fine), while Hamer 2.0 and Hamer 3.0 did their stuff.
But until someone emerges to fill that role it's not realistic to expect them to fill those shoes, but that doesn't mean they're league one players at best or bilge, that's just nonsense.

Or perhaps we just need to reinvent our game to adjust to the players we have instead of who we’d like to have. That doesn’t mean hoofing it Luton style but I think it should mean more balls over the top on MVE’s side and through the middle for example.

Then when January comes and hopefully someone more dynamic in midfield arrives for us to go back to Robins’ Plan A.

 

[clint van damme]

Or perhaps we just need to reinvent our game to adjust to the players we have instead of who we’d like to have. That doesn’t mean hoofing it Luton style but I think it should mean more balls over the top on MVE’s side and through the middle for example.

Then when January comes and hopefully someone more dynamic in midfield arrives for us to go back to Robins’ Plan A.

Possibly. Robins and Viveash have proven adept and finding solutions to our problems over the years, that's why I can't understand some of the flak 5 games in.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

We've played 5 games for fucks sake, so when you say in all other games you mean 3?! The nonsense people try and pull on here to prove their point is incredible.
our attack is out performing our defence, that's a fact.
We need more from both, but we're 5 games in, some of the bed wetting is incredible, have people learnt nothing over the last few years?

Yeah and you’re using “stats” from 5 games to try and prove that somehow our attack is stronger than our defence?! 3 games or 5 games, either way you slice it it’s a shit sample size. You’ve got to look at the teams we’ve faced and actually look at how well they’re doing before you start using stats.

In all competitions so far this season Middlesbrough have conceded 11 goals, excluding the 3 we scored against them, can hardly say it’s a surprise we put 3 past them. As for Watford, yeah they haven’t conceded many goals but they’ve drawn or lost 4 games this season, again hardly a solid defence. Look at the Leicester, Swansea, Sunderland and Wimbledon games, we scored a total of 3 goals. 3.

When you look at the absolute shift that Lati, McFadz, Thomas, Dasilva and MVE have put in to trying to stop numerous chances from the opposition (whilst our midfield is giving the ball away) it’s not even comparable with our attack. Of course we’re going to score goals but a simple stat of how many goals we’ve scored vs. conceded doesn’t tell you how hard and well our defence is currently working compared to our attack.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yeah and you’re using “stats” from 5 games to try and prove that somehow our attack is stronger than our defence?! 3 games or 5 games, either way you slice it it’s a shit sample size. You’ve got to look at the teams we’ve faced and actually look at how well they’re doing before you start using stats.

In all competitions so far this season Middlesbrough have conceded 11 goals, excluding the 3 we scored against them, can hardly say it’s a surprise we put 3 past them. As for Watford, yeah they haven’t conceded many goals but they’ve drawn or lost 4 games this season, again hardly a solid defence. Look at the Leicester, Swansea, Sunderland and Wimbledon games, we scored a total of 3 goals. 3.

When you look at the absolute shift that Lati, McFadz, Thomas, Dasilva and MVE have put in to trying to stop numerous chances from the opposition (whilst our midfield is giving the ball away) it’s not even comparable with our attack. Of course we’re going to score goals but a simple stat of how many goals we’ve scored vs. conceded doesn’t tell you how hard and well our defence is currently working compared to our attack.

Didn’t Watford have the lowest xG against in the division prior to last weekend?

 

[clint van damme]

Yeah and you’re using “stats” from 5 games to try and prove that somehow our attack is stronger than our defence?! 3 games or 5 games, either way you slice it it’s a shit sample size. You’ve got to look at the teams we’ve faced and actually look at how well they’re doing before you start using stats.

In all competitions so far this season Middlesbrough have conceded 11 goals, excluding the 3 we scored against them, can hardly say it’s a surprise we put 3 past them. As for Watford, yeah they haven’t conceded many goals but they’ve drawn or lost 4 games this season, again hardly a solid defence. Look at the Leicester, Swansea, Sunderland and Wimbledon games, we scored a total of 3 goals. 3.

When you look at the absolute shift that Lati, McFadz, Thomas, Dasilva and MVE have put in to trying to stop numerous chances from the opposition (whilst our midfield is giving the ball away) it’s not even comparable with our attack. Of course we’re going to score goals but a simple stat of how many goals we’ve scored vs. conceded doesn’t tell you how hard and well our defence is currently working compared to our attack.

I'm not saying are defence needs an overhaul, I'm just pointing out that our attack is our performing our defence so why aren't you pointing the finger at them?
It's ludicrous to say either need's changes at this early stage. They've both started steadily, things to both work on and with.

As for looking at the opposition, Watford had failed to score in their previous 3 league games!

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

Didn’t Watford have the lowest xG against in the division prior to last weekend?

Probably but again look deeper into the stats, they’ve faced Blackburn, Stoke, Plymouth, Stevenage and QPR, in my opinion (and obvs it’s just opinion, again with a small sample size) none of those sides are known for scoring numerous goals.