5 At The Back Needs To Go (21 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

I don't think 3 CB's is a massive issue. The problem is that we have WB's who we don't tend to push forward enough.

The idea of the extra CB is that it gives the wide players a bit more freedom to push forward. We're not really doing it. Being forced into playing two very defensive minded CM's is just exacerbating that, along with the possession football where we just pass it along the back three for ages. Not having a creative ACM at the moment also isn't helping.

But do we have the players to play 4 at the back? Although we only have one (injured) RWB do we have any actual RB's? Or would we have a CB playing out of position? LB you'd probably end up going back to Bidwell instead of JD due to his defensive abilities. On the plus side it would give Sakamoto more of a chance to shine, but is that sufficient reason?

I think it's fine to keep the 3CB's, but we have to push the WB's up more, only play one of Kelly or Eccles and look to get the ball into midfield more quickly.

We don't have a box to box midfielder, we don't really have a fit ball carrying .mdfielder though Allen can do it a bit.
This is the heart of our problems.

 

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[hamertime]

We don't have a box to box midfielder, we don't really have a fit ball carrying .mdfielder though Allen can do it a bit.
This is the heart of our problems.

Palmer and Ohare are the ones we need to do this job, unfortunately both Injury prone. That hamer Money needs spending on a top attacking midfielder in January.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

If 5 at the back was actually any good then why the hell doesn’t Pep play it or Klopp play it or Arteta play it or Xavi play it or Tuchel play it? Hardly any of the best teams in the world play 5 at the back and only 4 teams in the Prem play it, and they’re all bottom half. To me it’s glaringly obvious that it’s an outdated way of playing football.

What the…was it an outdated way when we made the play offs last season or won League 1 at a canter? Game moves on quick these days

 

[clint van damme]

What the…was it an outdated way when we made the play offs last season or won League 1 at a canter? Game moves on quick these days

The top teams are a lot more fluid these days. Arteta claimed Arsenal changed shape over 40 times during a game.
Easier to do with a pool of top class international midfielders than with Kelly, Eccles, Allen and a school boy from Brighton.

 

[hamertime]

The problem is the lack of goals. Who would’ve imagined after nearly 15m spent on strikers, they would have one goal between them after eight games. Goals, breed confidence then everything else falls into place.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

The problem is the lack of goals. Who would’ve imagined after nearly 15m spent on strikers, they would have one goal between them after eight games. Goals, breed confidence then everything else falls into place.

It’s not and Godden has been filling that void anyway. We’ve scored 1 less than PNE, Sunderland and Leeds who make up the top 6

 

[fernandopartridge]

I never said we need to score more than 2, I said if we could score 2 goals it would take the pressure off our defence.

Also, it’s not just about Leicester, what’s the obsession with Leicester? How about Leeds? Or Ipswich? Or Sunderland? Or Hull? Or any of the top 10 sides that are using 4 at the back and doing well? Also if you’re only going to look at Leicester you’ve got to factor in a team’s ability to actually score goals, Leicester look like they could score a goal at any time during a game, we hardly ever look like scoring a single goal during a game, let alone multiple goals. Yes they may only win by 1 goal a lot of the time but they have the ability to score goals in almost any given game at any time, they can turn a game around quickly, whereas we score one dodgy goal and then never look like scoring another.

You make a good point about our players though, it’s a bunch of shit atm and maybe that’s why we’re not doing well, maybe. However I come back to the original point I made and look at why the best teams around the world all play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 etc. If 5 at the back was actually any good then why the hell doesn’t Pep play it or Klopp play it or Arteta play it or Xavi play it or Tuchel play it? Hardly any of the best teams in the world play 5 at the back and only 4 teams in the Prem play it, and they’re all bottom half. To me it’s glaringly obvious that it’s an outdated way of playing football.

Yet both Championship play off finalists last season used it

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Spare a thought for Cheltenham Town fans who haven’t seen their team score a goal yet in 9 games. I had to check that a few times

 

[Martin180]

Once Sheaf got injured we've lacked the energy and fluidity in the attacking side of our midfield . Allen , O'Hare and Sheaf will all make a huge difference when they return .
Back to the opening post , I've advocated a back four cause both Lati and Bidwell would make decent full backs in my opinion. However like I've said does Robin's fancy Fadz in a two or any of the others together in a two ?

 

[hamertime]

It’s not and Godden has been filling that void anyway. We’ve scored 1 less than PNE, Sunderland and Leeds who make up the top 6

To be fair I didn’t realise we’d scored that many. We will be fine once we get a couple of wins under the belt they will come.

 

[Offhegoes]

We could play Bidwell and Da Silva as LB & LM, then Van Ewijk and Sakamoto as RB and RM. Problem is if any of those get injured we're screwed. We don't have wingers / wide midfielders and we're already playing Da Slilva out of position.by switching it up.
Van Ewijk is out for the next few games so it would need to be Lati at RB or Eccles.
No way we're moving to 4 at the back.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

What the…was it an outdated way when we made the play offs last season or won League 1 at a canter? Game moves on quick these days

But that was league 1, we’re not talking about league 1 anymore, and we had an exceptional team for league 1 standards that year. This season is full of teams that can score goals easily, look at Leeds, Bristol, Sunderland, Hull, Norwich, Leicester, Ipswich, even Plymouth tbh. We have only scored more than 2 goals in a game once this season (not counting the misplaced Watford back pass) and even in that Middlesbrough game that last goal was an own goal. It’s just not good enough.

 

[Grendel]

Spare a thought for Cheltenham Town fans who haven’t seen their team score a goal yet in 9 games. I had to check that a few times

They need biamou out of retirement

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

But that was league 1, we’re not talking about league 1 anymore, and we had an exceptional team for league 1 standards that year. This season is full of teams that can score goals easily, look at Leeds, Bristol, Sunderland, Hull, Norwich, Leicester, Ipswich, even Plymouth tbh. We have only scored more than 2 goals in a game once this season (not counting the misplaced Watford back pass) and even in that Middlesbrough game that last goal was an own goal. It’s just not good enough.

No I’m sure we reached the play offs in the Chamionship last year too, unless you’re suggesting we could have made up the 21 points to the automatic places by playing another system

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

The top teams are a lot more fluid these days. Arteta claimed Arsenal changed shape over 40 times during a game.
Easier to do with a pool of top class international midfielders than with Kelly, Eccles, Allen and a school boy from Brighton.

Yeah fair enough football is more fluid these days but are Arsenal actually changing shape 40 times during a game? 40 really? That’s once every 2 minutes-ish, no team could keep up that conscious level of change during a game. I’m not saying you’re lying I just think that’s a bit of bullshit bravado from Arteta personally.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

No I’m sure we reached the play offs in the Chamionship last year too, unless you’re suggesting we could have made up the 21 points to the automatic places by playing another system

That’s fair and I’m not saying that 5 at the back cannot work ever, I’m sure it’ll work for almost any team but is it the absolute optimum play style? We had 2 exceptional players last year that could make it work, I just think we simply don’t have the ability to do atm, maybe we will in time but we’re low on pure quality and I think it takes a lot of dedication and skill to get this weird 3-4-1-2 to work well. It ends up being a back 7 half the time and Kelly and Eccles can’t defend the whole of the defensive front line when one of them gets dragged wide.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

I know a lot of people are against the 4-3-3 idea and that’s fair but I think more than anything I’m concerned about Robins’ lack of creativity when it’s clear we need to change something during the game. Maybe move to the box or change to a 4-4-2 to take the initiative, just something, anything. We score one (often weird) goal and then by 70 mins we’re sitting so deep we’re almost playing 4 goalkeepers

 

[shmmeee]

Palmer and Ohare are the ones we need to do this job, unfortunately both Injury prone. That hamer Money needs spending on a top attacking midfielder in January.

Both play high up. o’Hare is an exceptional AM because he gets about the pitch so much. Much like Gus was an exceptional DM I guess. It we need someone who can partner Sheaf and drive us forwards with an O’Hare/Palmer/whoever ahead of him as part of the front three.

Or we need to drop the double pivot system. Though even in a three we’d still need that player. Two Eccles does not a Hamer make.

 

[blunted]

Yeah fair enough, I find it hard not to waffle tbf But I think with something like this it’s hard to get all the info out there without trying to explain it a bit. Anyway I’ll try and shorten it in future as it is quite a long post tbf

To be fair, there are people on here with the attention span of gnats. It is important to generate genuine debate even if people don't agree with you. Surprised you never got the fell asleep half-way through replies from the geniuses who want to show what brilliant comedy characters they are. This reply is way too long for some

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

To be fair, there are people on here with the attention span of gnats. It is important to generate genuine debate even if people don't agree with you. Surprised you never got the fell asleep half-way through replies from the geniuses who want to show what brilliant comedy characters they are. This reply is way too long for some

Too right there mate. I much prefer a proper debate about something instead of using sarcasm or rhetoric to put someone’s point down, especially as we’re all fans on the club and want to see us do well, airing ideas is surely better than doing nothing?

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

They need biamou out of retirement

The goal they scored in the EFL Trophy was by an opposition player - so it’s actually 11 games in all comps without a Cheltenham player scoring

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The top teams are a lot more fluid these days. Arteta claimed Arsenal changed shape over 40 times during a game.
Easier to do with a pool of top class international midfielders than with Kelly, Eccles, Allen and a school boy from Brighton.

That sounds more to me like a team not playing with any set plan or a lack of discipline.

Unless he means that a player running somewhere else counts as a new shape, in which case we can count the centre backs or Eccles covering a WB going forward as changing shape.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

I’m still convinced we need to try something other than the current formation, I know I’ll get a load of stick for suggesting it once again but it’s not like the current tactics are getting us anywhere quick. It feels like it gets more and more predictable every week, along with the shit corners and inevitably way-too-late subs.

I wouldn’t say I’m in a rush to change it but we can’t be performing like that for much longer, if we want to be a top 10 team, let alone top 6, then we need to be beating teams like Bristol tbh. The performances against Cardiff, Huddersfield and Bristol were all poor, we need to be playing and thinking better than we currently do both on and off the pitch.

 

[rob9872]

I’m still convinced we need to try something other than the current formation, I know I’ll get a load of stick for suggesting it once again but it’s not like the current tactics are getting us anywhere quick. It feels like it gets more and more predictable every week, along with the shit corners and inevitably way-too-late subs.

I wouldn’t say I’m in a rush to change it but we can’t be performing like that for much longer, if we want to be a top 10 team, let alone top 6, then we need to be beating teams like Bristol tbh. The performances against Cardiff, Huddersfield and Bristol were all poor, we need to be playing and thinking better than we currently do both on and off the pitch.

I still think the box midfield (when available) with 1 up top is better.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’m still convinced we need to try something other than the current formation, I know I’ll get a load of stick for suggesting it once again but it’s not like the current tactics are getting us anywhere quick. It feels like it gets more and more predictable every week, along with the shit corners and inevitably way-too-late subs.

I wouldn’t say I’m in a rush to change it but we can’t be performing like that for much longer, if we want to be a top 10 team, let alone top 6, then we need to be beating teams like Bristol tbh. The performances against Cardiff, Huddersfield and Bristol were all poor, we need to be playing and thinking better than we currently do both on and off the pitch.

Created enough chances to win several games, didn't take any of them. In contrast to other games where chances have been scarce but the forwards or more specifically Godden have been clinical.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

I still think the box midfield (when available) with 1 up top is better.

Yeah I think as a more immediate change the box formation is best. I’d personally play Simms as the main striker as I think he’s quick, tall and strong enough to do a bit of everything well, unlike Godden and Wright. Definitely feel like we need the extra midfielder more than we need the extra striker.

 

[skybluecam]

If you’re gonna talk about Man City, they actually play 3 centrebacks.

Their formation is actually best summed up as 3-2-4-1 on paper (although it’s so fluid that means little) which is closer to what we play than a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 is.

 

[SkyblueTexan]

Yeah I think as a more immediate change the box formation is best. I’d personally play Simms as the main striker as I think he’s quick, tall and strong enough to do a bit of everything well, unlike Godden and Wright. Definitely feel like we need the extra midfielder more than we need the extra striker.

I’ve been crying out for 1 up top and an extra man midfielder for weeks, but Robins continues with 2 up top which hasn’t worked.

 

[ceetee]

I don't disagree but it's not so long ago that many were complaining about only playing one up front.

 

[skybluecam]

I think the bigger issue for me is it’s unclear how we are actually trying to score our goals.

Last year it was very obvious, playing vertically and trying to get the ball into Vik as soon as possible for him to hold up or turn, then play from there while the opposition were out of position.

This year we’ve slowed down and there’s little penetration. We often build up to the edge of their penalty area then find ourselves passing side to side without finding any gaps.

Our best result recently was at QPR, where two of our goals came from fast breaks and the other was a set piece.

 

[Nick]

The priority is really having a plan B for when it isn't quite working.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

The priority is really having a plan B for when it isn't quite working.

Absolutely, the guys talked about this quite well on the Sky Blues Extra podcast yesterday, Robins never seems to have a plan B and seems reluctant to change formations or players when it’s clear something needs to be done much sooner in the game.

 

[shmmeee]

Absolutely, the guys talked about this quite well on the Sky Blues Extra podcast yesterday, Robins never seems to have a plan B and seems reluctant to change formations or players when it’s clear something needs to be done much sooner in the game.

Players don’t know plan A yet TBF.

 

[Nick]

Players don’t know plan A yet TBF.

What's being done every day in training then, other than players getting injured?

 

[SBT]

Spending ~£7 million on four new CBs and then changing our whole defensive system after 12 games is very encouraging