USSR invades Ukraine. (52 Viewers)

[Grendel]

The armchair generals are in retreat

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Are you going to answer the question or not?

Generally speaking countries invaded for no reason should be given some kind of support, yes. Though if you can't see the particular significance behind allowing Ukraine to fall, I assume it's from being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Grendel]

Are you going to answer the question or not?
You’ve previously said there’s no case for the UK to pay reparations to Ireland but Russia should do, yet you’re now using it to draw comparisons haha.

He won’t - he can’t

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He won’t - he can’t

And yet he has. Despite being the so-called armchair general most others here seem to think it's a game of Risk where letting another player take something off the map is no big deal.

 

[skybluetony176]

Presumably you’re of the opinion that any future country that gets invaded should have the same level of support, no matter what continent they’re in?

Surely the best corse of action in that case is support Ukraine defeating Russia therefore safeguarding countries like Georgia and Moldova from future aggression from Russia? The alternative is withdraw support from Ukraine and green light further aggression from Russia. Both Moldova and Georgia already have parts of their country annexed by Russia, they’re already in the position that Ukraine was in post 2014 and pre the attempted full scale invasion. It would be extremely naive to think that an invigorated Putin hot of the Ukrainian victory he dreamed of won’t somehow then roll on into at the very least Moldova.

 

[Grendel]

And yet he has. Despite being the so-called armchair general most others here seem to think it's a game of Risk where letting another player take something off the map is no big deal.

You haven’t - it’s just word salad and it’s pretty obvious you don’t care how many Ukrainians die - it’s a game to you not me

 

[Grendel]

Surely the best corse of action in that case is support Ukraine defeating Russia therefore safeguarding countries like Georgia and Moldova from future aggression from Russia? The alternative is withdraw support from Ukraine and green light further aggression from Russia. Both Moldova and Georgia already have parts of their country annexed by Russia, they’re already in the position that Ukraine was in post 2014 and pre the attempted full scale invasion. It would be extremely naive to think that an invigorated Putin hot of the Ukrainian victory he dreamed of won’t somehow then roll on into at the very least Moldova.

Wiki armchair general is back

 

[PVA]

You haven’t - it’s just word salad and it’s pretty obvious you don’t care how many Ukrainians die - it’s a game to you not me

Get off your high horse. You don't give a fuck about the people of Ukraine and don't care how many die.

Because they won’t - it’s odd people are so invested in a country which is equally racist homophobic and transphobic- it’s a vile place - just don’t know why we care

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You haven’t - it’s just word salad and it’s pretty obvious you don’t care how many Ukrainians die - it’s a game to you not me

You withdraw the support Ukraine falls. Ukraine falls then Russia annexes a large wad of land in mainland Europe and will have carte blanche to go and take Moldova and Georgia thereafter. Based on what they've got up to in occupied territory you can also assume there would be widespread atrocities committed which should disturb you irrespective of how worthless you think the country is.

It's not word salad to predict that, it's a near certainty.

 

[Grendel]

Get off your high horse. You don't give a fuck about the people of Ukraine and don't care how many die.

You certainly don’t

 

[PVA]

You certainly don’t

Well you didn't deny it, that's something I suppose.


Of course I do. I also don't want Ukraine wiped off the map.

You've said numerous times you don't care what happens to Ukraine or its people.

 

[Grendel]

Well you didn't deny it, that's something I suppose.


Of course I do. I also don't want Ukraine wiped off the map.

You've said numerous times you don't care what happens to Ukraine or its people.

You don’t care or you’d want peace talks. You support US ideology

There’s only 3 stooges aka armchair generals left now on here - and you and Tony are the dumb and dumber of the trio

 

[PVA]

You don’t care or you’d want peace talks. You support US ideology

There’s only 3 stooges aka armchair generals left now on here - and you and Tony are the dumb and dumber of the trio

It's nothing to do with US ideology, it's about thinking a sovereign state should not be wiped off the map.


'Ukraine should not be wiped off the map' = you don't care about Ukraine

'I don't care what happens to Ukraine, Russia is welcome to it' = I'm so sympathetic to Ukraine!


Absolutely pathetic stuff.

 

[Grendel]

It's nothing to do with US ideology, it's about thinking a sovereign state should not be wiped off the map.


'Ukraine should not be wiped off the map' = you don't care about Ukraine

'I don't care what happens to Ukraine, Russia is welcome to it' = I'm so sympathetic to Ukraine!


Absolutely pathetic stuff.

Im genuinely bored of your contribution on this topic now.

 

[PVA]

Im genuinely bored of your contribution on this topic now.

Because you know I'm right there. You can't argue with that.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You don’t care or you’d want peace talks. You support US ideology

There’s only 3 stooges aka armchair generals left now on here - and you and Tony are the dumb and dumber of the trio

Peace talks only forestalled the full scale invasion by 8 years last time. Wouldn't even be that long this time.

 

[SBT]

Presumably you’re of the opinion that any future country that gets invaded should have the same level of support, no matter what continent they’re in?

In principle that’s how it should work, but there aren’t any countries who act on principle alone. The issue here is that the UK/EU/US etc have deemed Russian expansionism to be a strategic threat, so here we are. If you disagree with that assessment then naturally you would have a problem with funding the war.

 

[Sick Boy]

In principle that’s how it should work, but there aren’t any countries who act on principle alone. The issue here is that the UK/EU/US etc have deemed Russian expansionism to be a strategic threat, so here we are. If you disagree with that assessment then naturally you would have a problem with funding the war.

I don’t disagree but there’s a belief that the reasons behind it are all about protecting Ukraine and it’s people, which is naive at best. If it was any country, I doubt the USA would have got involved.
Personally, I just want an end to the war and believe that war crimes committed by other sides are abhorrent, crazy I know! But then the usual parroting happens of it automatically meaning the viewpoint is pro-Putin.

 

[SBT]

I don’t disagree but there’s a belief that the reasons behind it are all about protecting Ukraine and it’s people, which is naive at best. If it was any country, I doubt the USA would have got involved.

Why does any of that matter? For all of the third party countries involved in this war, the only real concerns are strategic ones. It’s still possible for the war to be awful, and a stalemate, and a gigantic waste of money, and yet for our involvement to still be justifiable.

 

[Grendel]

In principle that’s how it should work, but there aren’t any countries who act on principle alone. The issue here is that the UK/EU/US etc have deemed Russian expansionism to be a strategic threat, so here we are. If you disagree with that assessment then naturally you would have a problem with funding the war.

The EU will always serve its own interests

EU imports of Russian liquified gas leap by 40% since Ukraine invasion | Gas | The Guardian

Pipeline flows from Russia have fallen to historic lows, but shipments of LNG from all over the world have surged

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Sick Boy]

The EU will always serve its own interests

EU imports of Russian liquified gas leap by 40% since Ukraine invasion | Gas | The Guardian

Pipeline flows from Russia have fallen to historic lows, but shipments of LNG from all over the world have surged

amp.theguardian.com

What would be an alternative country to purchase from, I wonder?

 

[Grendel]

What would be an alternative country to purchase from, I wonder?

Meanwhile Russia send to India and the eu buy from India

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/fuels-russian-oil-gets-backdoor-entry-into-europe-via-india-2023-04-05/#:~:text=Access%20to%20cheap%20Russian%20crude,before%20Russia's%20invasion%20of%20Ukraine.

 

[SBT]

What would be an alternative country to purchase from, I wonder?

To be honest, while their track record on this clearly speaks for itself, the idea that the western involvement in this war is little more than a US government hydrocarbons racket is kind of undercut by the knowledge that Donald Trump wants to stop the whole thing as soon as possible! Or is he just a more principled leader than I’m giving him credit for?

 

[Grendel]

trump clearly wouldn’t stop the war the next day but I do suspect he’d withdraw significant funding and tell the allies to spend a lot more

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

trump clearly wouldn’t stop the war the next day but I do suspect he’d withdraw significant funding and tell the allies to spend a lot more

He will do whatever the military industrial complex tells him to. War is always good for American business.

 

[Ian1779]

If we drew some parallels with one of the other conflicts currently in the news between Israel and Palestine, we would surely be talking about Israel as the land grabbing aggressors in the role of Russia, whilst Palestine is the country trying to protect its own territory like Ukraine?
Are we going to see condemnation for Israel and military support provided for Palestine to protect their people and land?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If we drew some parallels with one of the other conflicts currently in the news between Israel and Palestine, we would surely be talking about Israel as the land grabbing aggressors in the role of Russia, whilst Palestine is the country trying to protect its own territory like Ukraine?
Are we going to see condemnation for Israel and military support provided for Palestine to protect their people and land?

I’ve been critical of Israel’s actions there as long as I can remember. Not a great ‘gotcha’ argument to be honest.

 

[Ian1779]

I’ve been critical of Israel’s actions there as long as I can remember. Not a great ‘gotcha’ argument to be honest.

It’s not a gotcha argument at all, nor am I trying to do that. It’s a parallel example to show how complex things are, because you know full well the international community does not respond consistently.

 

[SBT]

If we drew some parallels with one of the other conflicts currently in the news between Israel and Palestine, we would surely be talking about Israel as the land grabbing aggressors in the role of Russia, whilst Palestine is the country trying to protect its own territory like Ukraine?
Are we going to see condemnation for Israel and military support provided for Palestine to protect their people and land?

If we believed that either Israel or Palestine’s actions posed an immediate strategic risk to our country then we would.

Nothing quite like introducing the Israel-Palestine question into a thread to take the heat out of the debate!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s not a gotcha argument at all, nor am I trying to do that. It’s a parallel example to show how complex things are, because you know full well the international community does not respond consistently.

And it should. Israel has committed war crimes against Palestine while building illegal settlements in the West Bank under a far right regime. They only get away with it courtesy of a very strong pro Israel lobby in the US.

 

[Grendel]

And it should. Israel has committed war crimes against Palestine while building illegal settlements in the West Bank under a far right regime. They only get away with it courtesy of a very strong pro Israel lobby in the US.

As Ukraine is supported as US politics decrees it is advantageous

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

As Ukraine is supported as US politics decrees it is advantageous

Nobody disagrees with that being the case.

 

[Grendel]

Nobody disagrees with that being the case.

Oh I think people do.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Oh I think people do.

If they do they’re mistaken. Really your view on how much support should be provided and thus the significance of a Russian victory comes down to how strategically important you consider Ukraine to be. Given the sheer amount of territory, resources and nuclear material that is there, I think it justifies the aid being given.

 

[PVA]

According to reports Russia launched a massive counteroffensive at Avdiivka and got decimated.

Over 800 Russians killed and 80 armoured vehicles destroyed.

The Z convicts being forced to advance or be killed for fleeing.

Grim.