Centre forward problem (5 Viewers)

[Deleted member 9744]

Yeah, I'm backing him but there was one cross vs. Bristol where he properly half assed it.

Needs to sort that.

I remember Robins taking him off in one match at the CBS when he made no attempt to get to a header. I must admit I am surprised Robins has persevered with him as much as he has, but I guess Godden has also failed to deliver.

 

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[Deleted member 9744]

Yes the way we are playing at the moment suits a striker that drops deep.

Simms likes the ball ahead of him and Godden is a penalty box striker so neither are currently working particularly well.

I think if Mason-Clark was here now we'd soon have seen him off the left and Wright given a go through the middle.

Also the suggestion of playing Palmer up front, can't remember who said it, gets slightly less crazy by the game...

I really don't agree Simms wants the ball played ahead of him. He doesn't have the speed for it. He is essentially the same sort of player as Godden ie a penalty box striker. I think he needs another striker alongside him to do the work outside of the box to be fully effective.

I know his finishing has been poor but I suspect it is actually his strength. Maybe with confidence he'll start putting those chances away and to be fair he has been unlucky a couple of times. Just wish he could be coached not to try to break the back of the net every time and show a little more finesse and composure in front of goal.

I do think Palmer as false 9 or Wright central is the way to go though.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

I’m sure he played up front for us before…and scored?

Yes against Blackpool when most if the squad was ill. He played well in that role I thought.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

But supporters think its all the CFs fault, godden and Simms both getting pelters but are asked to be workhorses first and goalscorers second ..

You can show supporters this and they will STILL slag them off every match

What do we need ? A troy deeney esc forward ? Fuck knows

As you and I agree what we needed was Kieffer Moore. Would have been ideal in that role.

 

[Nick]

I really don't agree Simms wants the ball played ahead of him. He doesn't have the speed for it.

Disagree, put him on one in a chase with a defender and he mostly wins.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Disagree, put him on one in a chase with a defender and he mostly wins.

Yeah, he’s only shown it in glimpses but once he gets going he’s no slouch (Oxford and Leeds good examples)

 

[Grendel]

Yes against Blackpool when most if the squad was ill. He played well in that role I thought.

It’s pretty ridiculous when we have spent over £14 m on two strikers that we are considering playing someone who at 27 has not been a centre forward and scored less than 20 goals in his career

 

[fernandopartridge]

I really don't agree Simms wants the ball played ahead of him. He doesn't have the speed for it. He is essentially the same sort of player as Godden ie a penalty box striker. I think he needs another striker alongside him to do the work outside of the box to be fully effective.

I know his finishing has been poor but I suspect it is actually his strength. Maybe with confidence he'll start putting those chances away and to be fair he has been unlucky a couple of times. Just wish he could be coached not to try to break the back of the net every time and show a little more finesse and composure in front of goal.

I do think Palmer as false 9 or Wright central is the way to go though.

He's quick, we rarely play through balls for him to run on to though

 

[gspotgaz]

Simms is fairly quick over 10 yards but with ball at his feet his initial acceleration and footwork is slow so he’s relying on bundling through every time … it’s quite painful viewing

 

[usskyblue]

It’s evident (several times a game) that what we’re asking Simms to do, doesn't come naturally to him. It shows in his awkward body positioning and first touch. Although he has shown he’s capable of improving, case in point; the assist for Sheaf’s goal at the CBS. People have to understand that Simms is a work in progress.

 

[Grendel]

It’s evident (several times a game) that what we’re asking Simms to do, doesn't come naturally to him. It shows in his awkward body positioning and first touch. Although he has shown he’s capable of improving, case in point; the assist for Sheaf’s goal at the CBS. People have to understand that Simms is a work in progress.

He is an experienced player in terms of games at high levels and far more so than when Gyokeres joined so he really shouldn’t be a work in progress

 

[Nick]

He's quick, we rarely play through balls for him to run on to though

Just watched this



We rarely play like a lot of those goals.

 

[gspotgaz]

Just watched this



We rarely play like a lot of those goals.

Watching that there definitely is a player in there. Seems a real mental battle within his own head at the moment.

 

[PVA]

He's definitely lacking in confidence at the moment, looks a different player in that clip.

 

[Grendel]

Being a striker isn’t one dimensional. Look at his experience; as a poacher in the box. He’s having to learn a different role with us.

Most of the goals I’ve seen him score at Sunderland weren’t that at all. His one Everton goal certainly wasn’t.

I don’t see much poaching prowess at all and certainly not a presence in the air at all. I’m surprised how naive he seems

 

[hamertime]

The thing is, Gyokeres loved to work the channels but with Saka and Wright / Palmer on the other side would he have the space to do that?

Gyokeres used to love to run and chase after everything, sometimes he was literally so fucked he could hardly walk. That's nothing to do with quality its to do with a class, mental strength and giving everything for the shirt.

That's why he has got to the top, the strikers we have here have the physical attributes to be top players but lack the will to get there. They never will, that's the difference.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Being a striker isn’t one dimensional. Look at his experience; as a poacher in the box. He’s having to learn a different role with us.

He's not a poacher at all. Mick Quinn was .

 

[shmmeee]

But supporters think its all the CFs fault, godden and Simms both getting pelters but are asked to be workhorses first and goalscorers second ..

You can show supporters this and they will STILL slag them off every match

What do we need ? A troy deeney esc forward ? Fuck knows

But even as a work horse I’d rather have someone with a bit of presence and a first touch.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Just watched this



We rarely play like a lot of those goals.

Reaffirms my view that he’s got it in him to come good and definitely confirms he’s not slow. Just confidence at the moment

ps after that uplifting background tune, might get a few quid on him first goal tomorrow

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Not even Vik, but even the likes of Best, King, McGoldrick, etc would thrive in this side. Just anyone with a bit of something about them.

As for your question, I think Wright and Vik would exchange well

But even as a work horse I’d rather have someone with a bit of presence and a first touch.

That still requires getting to ball into them. In recent games, how often do we get the ball to the strikers feet or a dangerous cross? Wright’s good effort from an acute angle is case in point - he worked the keeper but we had Simms calling for it in the box.

Simms first touch isn’t great, in his defence there were times against Bristol where the passes were fired into him a bit which doesn’t help. Godden and Simms get pilloried for not making effort to go for crosses that are 10ft in the air. As good as Sakamoto and MVE have been, sometimes their crossing lets them down. Most our goals from crosses seem to come from Bidwell.

Vik would obviously improve this team because he is just too good for the Championship.

The problem isn’t the strikers playing poorly, the problem is that that they’re just not involved. Something I’d like to see from Torp and COH is for them to put balls in behind defenders - we’ve got a quick and powerful front 3 players, use them.

 

[PVA]

That still requires getting to ball into them. In recent games, how often do we get the ball to the strikers feet

Just had a quick look and, unsurprisingly, Simms and Godden have the least touches per 90 with 24 and 25 touches per 90 respectively.

Next fewest is Wright with 30 (who's average will have been brought down with his time at CF earlier in the season). Then the keepers.

 

[shmmeee]

That still requires getting to ball into them. In recent games, how often do we get the ball to the strikers feet or a dangerous cross? Wright’s good effort from an acute angle is case in point - he worked the keeper but we had Simms calling for it in the box.

Simms first touch isn’t great, in his defence there were times against Bristol where the passes were fired into him a bit which doesn’t help. Godden and Simms get pilloried for not making effort to go for crosses that are 10ft in the air. As good as Sakamoto and MVE have been, sometimes their crossing lets them down. Most our goals from crosses seem to come from Bidwell.

Vik would obviously improve this team because he is just too good for the Championship.

The problem isn’t the strikers playing poorly, the problem is that that they’re just not involved. Something I’d like to see from Torp and COH is for them to put balls in behind defenders - we’ve got a quick and powerful front 3 players, use them.

its both. Simms and Wrights second touch is often a tackle and they rarely make much of scraps due to lack of physicality.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Just had a quick look and, unsurprisingly, Simms and Godden have the least touches per 90 with 24 and 25 touches per 90 respectively.

Next fewest is Wright with 30 (who's average will have been brought down with his time at CF earlier in the season). Then the keepers.

That shouldn’t surprise anyone. For the audience, how many touches was Vik getting last season?

From this, it’s probably fair to say that their touches in the box is next to non-existent?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

That still requires getting to ball into them. In recent games, how often do we get the ball to the strikers feet or a dangerous cross? Wright’s good effort from an acute angle is case in point - he worked the keeper but we had Simms calling for it in the box.

Simms first touch isn’t great, in his defence there were times against Bristol where the passes were fired into him a bit which doesn’t help. Godden and Simms get pilloried for not making effort to go for crosses that are 10ft in the air. As good as Sakamoto and MVE have been, sometimes their crossing lets them down. Most our goals from crosses seem to come from Bidwell.

Vik would obviously improve this team because he is just too good for the Championship.

The problem isn’t the strikers playing poorly, the problem is that that they’re just not involved. Something I’d like to see from Torp and COH is for them to put balls in behind defenders - we’ve got a quick and powerful front 3 players, use them.

You have me with most of that, but as much as a lot of it is true, there are still a lot of excuses being thrown out which can't account for everything. The system might not be generous to the strikers as it stands, but it isn't just that. The strikers have also been playing poorly on top of all of this. I would like to see a bit more fight as a minimum. Opposition defenders are getting off too lightly.

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah I completely agree the ST could be getting better service, but equally they could be fighting for more, have better link up play, and actually attack the fucking front post instead of hiding from crosses.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

its both. Simms and Wrights second touch is often a tackle and they rarely make much of scraps due to lack of physicality.

Wright’s physically is underrated. He’s just not as strong as Vik was and he was joke.

Simms isn’t a traditional target man either. When the ball is pumped up to him he isn’t great - he’s had some decent games operating like that but against aerially dominant CBs, he isn’t going to look good. Norwich’s CBs are good in that area.

Where Simms is good is when he takes a touch into space and runs onto it. His iconic Chelsea goal and the assist against Oxford in the FA Cup are two examples.

Robins will know that this is a problem tactically - this isn’t our first time having a good striker who hasn’t fired for us. Chaplin and JCH being two players who kicked on elsewhere.

 

[PVA]

That shouldn’t surprise anyone. For the audience, how many touches was Vik getting last season?

From this, it’s probably fair to say that their touches in the box is next to non-existent?

Most touches in the box:

Wright - 6.4
Simms - 4.8
O'Hare - 4.6
Godden - 4.4

Last season Vik averaged 40 touches per 90, so significantly more (Godden was bottom with 27). Vik averaged 7.1 touches in the box, so a little more than Wright this season but way ahead of the others.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

If we aren't creating chances in the box how come O'Hare is scoring so many from there?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

You have me with most of that, but as much as a lot of it is true, there are still a lot of excuses being thrown out which can't account for everything. The system might not be generous to the strikers as it stands, but it isn't just that. The strikers have also been playing poorly on top of all of this. I would like to see a bit more fight as a minimum. Opposition defenders are getting off too lightly.

We make it easy for them. Pumping up long balls to strikers is meat and drink for most centre halves. I remember Clive Platt being handled very easily when we played that shore under Boothroyd.

Likewise, there are times where we can predictable in the final third when we try to pass it in the goal - the defences get set with 8-9 players behind the ball. We’ve always played our best attacking football on the counter under MR.

If Simms pressed more aggressively, I feel like he’d have more ‘credit in the bank’. I don’t know if he’s been instructed differently or not.

 

[stupot07]

Yes the way we are playing at the moment suits a striker that drops deep.

Simms likes the ball ahead of him and Godden is a penalty box striker so neither are currently working particularly well.

I think if Mason-Clark was here now we'd soon have seen him off the left and Wright given a go through the middle.

Also the suggestion of playing Palmer up front, can't remember who said it, gets slightly less crazy by the game...

Problem is, whenever Wright has played through the middle, he also wants the ball ahead of him to run on to, so very similar to Simms in that respect. He plays different off the left as hes playing deeper.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

[fernandopartridge]

Wright’s physically is underrated. He’s just not as strong as Vik was and he was joke.

Simms isn’t a traditional target man either. When the ball is pumped up to him he isn’t great - he’s had some decent games operating like that but against aerially dominant CBs, he isn’t going to look good. Norwich’s CBs are good in that area.

Where Simms is good is when he takes a touch into space and runs onto it. His iconic Chelsea goal and the assist against Oxford in the FA Cup are two examples.

Robins will know that this is a problem tactically - this isn’t our first time having a good striker who hasn’t fired for us. Chaplin and JCH being two players who kicked on elsewhere.

I'd argue Wright is quicker than Gyokeres with the ball at his feet, he actually goes past players like they're not there at times

 

[stupot07]

I'd argue Wright is quicker than Gyokeres with the ball at his feet, he actually goes past players like they're not there at times

I think Viks top speed might be just quicker, but acceleration Wright is definitely quicker.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

[mmttww]

I really don't agree Simms wants the ball played ahead of him. He doesn't have the speed for it.

Don't agree. Looks like he's got a decent turn of speed. Think he's shown that plenty of times.

Like others have said, playing centrally, he doesn't get to show it. He's waiting for through balls.

Movement looks fine. Could do more competing for aerial crosses. We need to use him better.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

If we aren't creating chances in the box how come O'Hare is scoring so many from there?

Lots of slick dribbling moves - only Sunderland away did he get a pass in the box and just banged it. He’s by no means scoring poachers goals.

It’s been a joy seeing COH elevate his game. We can dredge up the infamous COH thread asking the ridiculous question of whether or not he was a burden.

Goes to show that when things click for some players, there’s just no stopping them.

Yeah I completely agree the ST could be getting better service, but equally they could be fighting for more, have better link up play, and actually attack the fucking front post instead of hiding from crosses.

We seem to score most our goals from crosses at the far post which I suspect is an instruction from the manager…

 

[Mr Panda]

Just watched this



We rarely play like a lot of those goals.

Doesn’t take a body language expert to watch this video and see a very clear difference in his confidence.

I think he’ll come good. You can tell he doesn’t really want the ball right now and is lumbered with the expectation and disappointment of the fan base