James McClean refusing to wear poppy (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Nick
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TrueSkyBlueLiam
Member
I think it was a very disrespectful gesture, but at the end of the day, we cant force him to wear one. I just cant believe someone wouldnt want to honour the memories of the men and women who made sure we have the the standard of life we have today. James McClean has gone way down in my opinion, but as i said, no-one can force someone to wear a poppy on their shirt
Otis
Well-Known Member
But he is Irish and many Irish people were killed by the British Army during all the troubles.
'The poppy is especially controversial in Northern Ireland and most Irish Nationalists and Irish Catholics refuse to wear one due to the actions of the British Army during the troubles.'
Most it says. Why the fuss? Personal choice and in no way do I see it as disrespectful.
'
'The poppy is especially controversial in Northern Ireland and most Irish Nationalists and Irish Catholics refuse to wear one due to the actions of the British Army during the troubles.'
Most it says. Why the fuss? Personal choice and in no way do I see it as disrespectful.
'
Otis
Well-Known Member
'Some have criticized the level of compulsion associated with the custom of wearing a poppy, something Channel 4 newsreader Jon Snow has called "poppy fascism".
Columnist Dan O'Neill wrote that "presenters and politicians seem to compete in a race to be first – poppies start sprouting in mid-October while the absence of a poppy is interpreted as absence of concern for the war dead, almost as an unpatriotic act of treachery".Likewise, Jonathan Bartley of the religious think-tank Ekklesia said "public figures in Britain are urged, indeed in many cases, required, to wear ... the red poppy, almost as an article of faith.
There is a political correctness about the red poppy". Journalist Robert Fisk complained that the poppy has become a seasonal "fashion accessory" and that people were "ostentatiously wearing a poppy for social or work-related reasons, to look patriotic when it suited them".
As I say, personal choice and there are valid reasons why people don't wear a poppy.
The 2 minute silence is for all people who have died in conflict.
How do we know that he hasn't had relatives or people his family know killed by the British Army? You and I may respect the Remembrance Sunday and the 2 mins silence, but not everyone feels the same. I would be a lot more annoyed if people didn't observe the silence. The poppy though is just a personal choice.
Columnist Dan O'Neill wrote that "presenters and politicians seem to compete in a race to be first – poppies start sprouting in mid-October while the absence of a poppy is interpreted as absence of concern for the war dead, almost as an unpatriotic act of treachery".Likewise, Jonathan Bartley of the religious think-tank Ekklesia said "public figures in Britain are urged, indeed in many cases, required, to wear ... the red poppy, almost as an article of faith.
There is a political correctness about the red poppy". Journalist Robert Fisk complained that the poppy has become a seasonal "fashion accessory" and that people were "ostentatiously wearing a poppy for social or work-related reasons, to look patriotic when it suited them".
As I say, personal choice and there are valid reasons why people don't wear a poppy.
The 2 minute silence is for all people who have died in conflict.
How do we know that he hasn't had relatives or people his family know killed by the British Army? You and I may respect the Remembrance Sunday and the 2 mins silence, but not everyone feels the same. I would be a lot more annoyed if people didn't observe the silence. The poppy though is just a personal choice.
scroobiustom
New Member
I personally think the work the British Legion does is more important than weather James McClean decides to wear a poppy embodied SCUMderland shirt.
The column inches this story has received is a little silly - Its time to move on and I feel the death threats is a little insulting given the spirit of the poppy anyway. Just my opinion.
The column inches this story has received is a little silly - Its time to move on and I feel the death threats is a little insulting given the spirit of the poppy anyway. Just my opinion.
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
I don't wear a poppy. It's MY personal choice. It's nothing to do with the fact that I'm Irish either. I consider it the same as all the other pushy charities. I will donate to whom I choose to - charities that I want to, not charities that make it fashionable to donate to. I feel the same way towards Children in Need and all those TV "guilt trip" charities. Why do I need to wear a red flower to show I have donated anything? When I donate to the Lifeboat Appeal (one of my favourite charities), I don't have to wear a big plastic boat on my head to show people what I've done! And when I do put something in the Poppy Appeal box, I don't take a poppy. I don't want to!
Otis
Well-Known Member
Would guess a fair few British Muslims wouldn't wear one either.
As long as people respect the dead I have no problem. We should never make the wearing of any emblem such as this compulsory.
Much ado about nothing stirred by hate filled papers such as the Daily Mail I reckon. I'm pretty sure this lad's intention wasn't to mock the dead. He simply didn't wish to wear the poppy. Not such a big deal when you think about it.
As long as people respect the dead I have no problem. We should never make the wearing of any emblem such as this compulsory.
Much ado about nothing stirred by hate filled papers such as the Daily Mail I reckon. I'm pretty sure this lad's intention wasn't to mock the dead. He simply didn't wish to wear the poppy. Not such a big deal when you think about it.
sometimes in life you just have to go along with stuff though don t you? As I say its like when I attend a match and there is a minutes silence for the other teams chairman's wife's dogs brother. Personally I couldn t give a fuck but I don't rattle all the way through it
Otis
Well-Known Member
But I do think that is different. In that circumstance you would actually be disturbing people while they try to have the 2 mins silence. You would actually be infringing upon their right to have the silence.
Simply not wearing a poppy doesn't have that same effect. That is a personal choice that doesn't infringe upon anyone else's individual right.
Making noise during a silence is completely different and is disrespectful.
Simply not wearing a poppy doesn't have that same effect. That is a personal choice that doesn't infringe upon anyone else's individual right.
Making noise during a silence is completely different and is disrespectful.
scroobiustom
New Member
I guess it would be different if he had started shouting his mouth - "i aint wearing not f-ing poppy" yadda yadda yadda incidentally Tulisa on x-factor has not worn poppies in the build up to Remembrance Sunday both this year and last year but she seems to have escaped persecution!
maybe their silence would be infringing my right to not be silent
Otis
Well-Known Member
coundonskyblue
New Member
If McClean was this great patriotic Irishman then surely he would want to remember all the Irish soldiers that were killed in WW1?
coundonskyblue
New Member
I dont think people should be forced to wear one, or even support it.
However I do think it says a lot about him as a man that he refused to wear it. A poppy isn't a political statement, its about remembering those who died whilst protecting others. People who died so that he could have the freedom of choice about whether he wears it or not.
Obviously its down to him if he wears one, I just think anyone who disagrees with what it stands for is either ignorant, or very bitter/twisted.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
Oh goodness. yes i see what some are saying. Just want to remind a few though that the 'poppy' is a symbolic gesture in honour of all those who lost their lives since the 14-18 war. The fields of flanders is where the poppy grew hence the sybolism.
Irish fought alonside us as British in that war. I can grant a few republican irish not wishing to wear it perhaps but should they not be honouring their heroes from the first war? Is McClean a republican?
Just saying....
Irish fought alonside us as British in that war. I can grant a few republican irish not wishing to wear it perhaps but should they not be honouring their heroes from the first war? Is McClean a republican?
Just saying....
Otis
Well-Known Member
Irish neutrality during World War II
The policy of Irish Neutralityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_neutrality during World War II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_IIwas adopted by the parliament of Irelandhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland upon the outbreak of hostilities in Europe. It was maintained throughout the conflict, in spite of several air raids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dublin_in_World_War_IIfrom Nazi Germany.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(Ireland)
The policy of Irish Neutralityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_neutrality during World War II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_IIwas adopted by the parliament of Irelandhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland upon the outbreak of hostilities in Europe. It was maintained throughout the conflict, in spite of several air raids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dublin_in_World_War_IIfrom Nazi Germany.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(Ireland)
CCFC Germany
Active Member
It's called democracy + freedom of speech when we are allowed to voice an opinion others might not share.
I do not want to know how many players do wear a poppy that don't give a shit or don't even know what it stands for. I think that's worse.
I do not want to know how many players do wear a poppy that don't give a shit or don't even know what it stands for. I think that's worse.
coundonskyblue
New Member
<p>
The poppy comes from WW1, a war that Ireland was very much part of.
The poppy comes from WW1, a war that Ireland was very much part of.
coundonskyblue
New Member
I dont disagree with those reasons Otis, im only talking there about people such as mcclean not understanding what it represents, and being bitter & twisted.
I would be saying the same about anyone here who refused to wear a shamrock on paddys day on the basis of what the ira have done. That would be equally bitter and also ignoring what it represents.
I would be saying the same about anyone here who refused to wear a shamrock on paddys day on the basis of what the ira have done. That would be equally bitter and also ignoring what it represents.
Otis
Well-Known Member
I'm sure many people do do that. I have no problem with that either.
I would at a guess think that many Irish people do not wear the poppy because of the Ireland troubles and many British Muslims don't because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
It's their right. A lot of people do unfortunately see the poppy as a symbol of war rather than peace.
I would at a guess think that many Irish people do not wear the poppy because of the Ireland troubles and many British Muslims don't because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
It's their right. A lot of people do unfortunately see the poppy as a symbol of war rather than peace.
It's important to also remember that McClean is from the area in Derry where hundreds of people were shot dead by the British Army on Bloody Sunday. A horrible incident and his family would probably be very unhappy if he had worn the poppy.
Sending death threats is absolutely ridiculous. The people we are honouring in a way earned us the right to choose whether to wear a poppy or not, so to stop it being a free choice is also to disrespect their memory in my eyes.
Sending death threats is absolutely ridiculous. The people we are honouring in a way earned us the right to choose whether to wear a poppy or not, so to stop it being a free choice is also to disrespect their memory in my eyes.
IrishSkyBlue
Facebook User
He just didn't want to wear it either would I if it was me but doesn't mean I don't respect what dead British soldiers have done for their country were all humans at the end if the day!
I ve always considered the poppy as a symbol of the deaths of men and women in conflict generally wherever that may be and whichever side they are on, military people or otherwise.
Innocent people always get caught up in these things. I bet there were a few people on 9/11 or 7/7 that didn t agree with the foreign policies of the West. Same as people caught up in IRA bombs who may well have been sympathetic to their cause. Innocent people dying in Gaza and as said before people on Bloody Sunday.
Innocent people always get caught up in these things. I bet there were a few people on 9/11 or 7/7 that didn t agree with the foreign policies of the West. Same as people caught up in IRA bombs who may well have been sympathetic to their cause. Innocent people dying in Gaza and as said before people on Bloody Sunday.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
Yes macca. the poppy is a symbol only in honouring the dead from all the wars and conflicts since the first world war where it was born from. You can disagree about soldiers in Ireland but that should not stop you paying respects to all the war dead of all or any of thos conflicts whichever side you are on.
It's misunderstood that it represents British soldiers exclusively. Anyone who died for the cause even the secret resistence agents in France who risked their lives and often were caught and killed. I could go on but hey each have an opinion.
It's misunderstood that it represents British soldiers exclusively. Anyone who died for the cause even the secret resistence agents in France who risked their lives and often were caught and killed. I could go on but hey each have an opinion.