England v Brazil match thread 23rd March 2024 (4 Viewers)

[SBAndy]

If without Kane our best options up front are Watkins or Toney it’s hardly a golden generation of forwards

I know Maguire is limited but what centre half options are there?

I’d be tempted to play one of Palmer/Gordon/Bellingham up top if Kane was injured during the tournament. Not seeing it with Watkins at international level. Toney would probably be an improvement but I almost think play to our strengths and try and make the top of the pitch fluid.

Maguire is the best of a rather rotten bunch. What is also concerning is I’m not seeing much coming through in that position. I’d be tempted to play Tomori alongside Stones with Branthwaite at left back, but that’s maybe one to think about in the next qualifying campaign.

 

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[SBT]

Didn’t see the game last night (not a great day all round for me yesterday) but sounded grim.

Looked like a pretty makeshift team by the end of the game, but the flaws in the team are glaring - dire choices at CB, no obvious partner for Rice at the base of the midfield, no credible depth up front, and no outstanding options at LB. It’s not an obvious recipe for global domination, but this is England. We should be winning every game 3-0.

 

[Otis]

Didn’t see the game last night (not a great day all round for me yesterday) but sounded grim.

Looked like a pretty makeshift team by the end of the game, but the flaws in the team are glaring - dire choices at CB, no obvious partner for Rice at the base of the midfield, no credible depth up front, and no outstanding options at LB. It’s not an obvious recipe for global domination, but this is England. We should be winning every game 3-0.

I didn't mind us losing. Just wanted to see a bit of hope and what could work and have the feeling we are not far off.

That was all just a bit clueless and uninspiring.

Created so very few clear chances and just seemed to pass it back and forth around the midfield and then lose possession.

Foden never quite seems to play as well for England as for Man City and I can only put it down to the instructions Southgate gives him. He's a great little player.

That performance last night was just so depressing and without any vigour or excitement.

 

[SBT]

I didn't mind us losing. Just wanted to see a bit of hope and what could work and have the feeling we are not far off.

That was all just a bit clueless and uninspiring.

Created so very few clear chances and just seemed to pass it back and forth around the midfield and then lose possession.

Foden never quite seems to play as well for England as for Man City and I can only put it down to the instructions Southgate gives him. He's a great little player.

That performance last night was just so depressing and without any vigour or excitement.

I understand the desire to be entertained, but it’s not really the point of a friendly is it. If last night has shown how far off some players are from being able to compete playing in our usual system then it’s a useful exercise. Better than playing some kind of Harlem Globetrotters exhibition game at least.

 

[Otis]

I understand the desire to be entertained, but it’s not really the point of a friendly is it. If last night has shown how far off some players are from being able to compete playing in our usual system then it’s a useful exercise. Better than playing some kind of Harlem Globetrotters exhibition game at least.

But when you see players failing to make any impact, you do have to wonder.

He's tried Watkins before hasn't he. He should have given Toney a go. And why persist with Gallagher? He just seems distinctly average.

If you want to see if players can step up, he should have given Mainoo a start.

You didn't see it. If you had, you would have seen what a pointless exercise it was really.

Gallagher has shown nothing at all do far and did the same again last night.

The one massive surprise for me was just how awful Ben Chilwell was. He was absolutely pants.

 

[SBT]

But when you see players failing to make any impact, you do have to wonder.

He's tried Watkins before hasn't he. He should have given Toney a go. And why persist with Gallagher? He just seems distinctly average.

If you want to see if players can step up, he should have given Mainoo a start.

You didn't see it. If you had, you would have seen what a pointless exercise it was really.

Gallagher has shown nothing at all do far and did the same again last night.

The one massive surprise for me was just how awful Ben Chilwell was. He was absolutely pants.

Well there’s a fair bit of hindsight there. He hasn’t tried Watkins against good opponents before and maybe he won’t again, but he’s been outstanding this season. Gallagher I’ve never really rated.

The clamour for Mainoo seems like a bit of a Hail Mary to me at this point. He really is incredibly fresh, and I don’t think you could count on him for 90 minutes this summer - Man United rarely do. If he’s the only answer at that position then that really shows the limitations of our squad. But again - this is England.

 

[Otis]

Well there’s a fair bit of hindsight there. He hasn’t tried Watkins against good opponents before and maybe he won’t again, but he’s been outstanding this season. Gallagher I’ve never really rated.

The clamour for Mainoo seems like a bit of a Hail Mary to me at this point. He really is incredibly fresh, and I don’t think you could count on him for 90 minutes this summer - Man United rarely do. If he’s the only answer at that position then that really shows the limitations of our squad. But again - this is England.

I just thought it was the perfect time to give Mainoo a go to be honest. Give him a chance in a nothing game. Others would be ahead, but we have players missing.

Gallagher baffles me.

 

[Otis]

Well there’s a fair bit of hindsight there. He hasn’t tried Watkins against good opponents before and maybe he won’t again, but he’s been outstanding this season. Gallagher I’ve never really rated.

The clamour for Mainoo seems like a bit of a Hail Mary to me at this point. He really is incredibly fresh, and I don’t think you could count on him for 90 minutes this summer - Man United rarely do. If he’s the only answer at that position then that really shows the limitations of our squad. But again - this is England.

And besides, why not give Watkins and Toney 45 mins each.

 

[SBbucks]

Well there’s a fair bit of hindsight there. He hasn’t tried Watkins against good opponents before and maybe he won’t again, but he’s been outstanding this season. Gallagher I’ve never really rated.

The clamour for Mainoo seems like a bit of a Hail Mary to me at this point. He really is incredibly fresh, and I don’t think you could count on him for 90 minutes this summer - Man United rarely do. If he’s the only answer at that position then that really shows the limitations of our squad. But again - this is England.

Watkins, like many strikers, needs decent service. He got nothing, feeding off scraps all evening. Get Saka back and take the brakes off Foden and you’d see a different Watkins.

 

[Otis]

Watkins, like many strikers, needs decent service. He got nothing, feeding off scraps all evening. Get Saka back and take the brakes off Foden and you’d see a different Watkins.

Yeah, maybe you are right. He was quite anonymous last night wasn't he.

I just think Toney gets more involved. No idea why he didn't at least get a few mins game time.

 

[SBAndy]

Watkins, like many strikers, needs decent service. He got nothing, feeding off scraps all evening. Get Saka back and take the brakes off Foden and you’d see a different Watkins.

Don’t think it’s a “take the brakes off Foden” solution. He plays wide right for Man City and holds the width well. Absolutely nowhere near where he should have been for most of the game yesterday. Clearly struggles to replicate his club form for England - I’m still unconvinced that I’d have him start come the Euros.

 

[messiahrobins]

That was Brazil's youth team with a new manager. While i expect them to win the world cup in 2 years as their talent is there for all to see, the fact England could not lay a glove on them at home speaks volumes for how overrated England are. We have one world class player in Bellingham.
England has too many foreigners in the PL which has badly hurt the international team. As usual England will probably make the quarters of a tournament and lose.

 

[messiahrobins]

I am genuinely shocked we've lost at home to this brazil team

That Brazil team has alot of potential in fainess and i think will win the woeld cup in 2 years time as they are a bot like the Sky Blues, very young with potential.
They actually outclassed a much more senior England side away from home, which is depressing really as it shows how far away England are from winning the Euros.

 

[Otis]

Don’t think it’s a “take the brakes off Foden” solution. He plays wide right for Man City and holds the width well. Absolutely nowhere near where he should have been for most of the game yesterday. Clearly struggles to replicate his club form for England - I’m still unconvinced that I’d have him start come the Euros.

Foden is just fine against the best in Europe though for his club, so he can clearly hold his own.

 

[messiahrobins]

Brazil are pretty wank these days but when he gets going they'll have a front 3 that could well be the Real Madrid front 3 for the next 7+ years so that's not a bad starting point.

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Brazil will win the world cup in two years as they have a lot of young talent coming through as do Argentina Uruguay and Colombia so South America seems ahead of Europe now in terms of the future, with only Spain and France and Germany looking like they have a batch of top class youngsters coming through.
Brazil needed to get rid of Neymar Thiago Silva Casemiro years ago.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That Brazil team has alot of potential in fainess and i think will win the woeld cup in 2 years time as they are a bot like the Sky Blues, very young with potential.
They actually outclassed a much more senior England side away from home, which is depressing really as it shows how far away England are from winning the Euros.

'Outclassed'. It was two boring teams playing boring football and settled by an offside goal

 

[SBT]

Don’t think it’s a “take the brakes off Foden” solution. He plays wide right for Man City and holds the width well. Absolutely nowhere near where he should have been for most of the game yesterday. Clearly struggles to replicate his club form for England - I’m still unconvinced that I’d have him start come the Euros.

Man City, of course, play with two holding midfielders, but that is a sign of negative, unambitious football which we should never accept.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Man City, of course, play with two holding midfielders, but that is a sign of negative, unambitious football which we should never accept.

They probably wouldn't do it at home to San Marino, mind you.

 

[SBT]

They probably wouldn't do it at home to San Marino, mind you.

Well they did against Huddersfield Town…

 

[messiahrobins]

'Outclassed'. It was two boring teams playing boring football and settled by an offside goal

Point me to an exciting international team currently?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Point me to an exciting international team currently?

Oh I see, that's how it works. Follow the trend of boring football despite having the players to do otherwise.

 

[messiahrobins]

Oh I see, that's how it works. Follow the trend of boring football despite having the players to do otherwise.

England do not have top class players save for Bellingham. If they did Real Madrid would come calling, but they literally are a combination of the best of Brazil and France which says alot.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

England do not have top class players save for Bellingham. If they did Real Madrid would come calling, but they literally are a combination of the best of Brazil and France which says alot.

I see. So Pep hasn't got a clue

 

[messiahrobins]

I see. So Pep hasn't got a clue

With the money he has spent he has seriously underachieved at European level. Mourinho has more European Cups i think.
Man City hardly has English players anyway. Foden is not and never has been a regular starter for Man City, neither has Stones been. Grealish even when fit is in and out. Walker is the only one he has regularly relied on week in week out, and Walker is 32 now and not the player he was.
Real Madrid is where the cream want to play and they are only interested in buying the cream. English players rarely get looked at by them.

 

[Otis]

With the money he has spent he has seriously underachieved at European level. Mourinho has more European Cups i think.
Man City hardly has English players anyway. Foden is not and never has been a regular starter for Man City, neither has Stones been. Grealish even when fit is in and out. Walker is the only one he has regularly relied on week in week out, and Walker is 32 now and not the player he was.
Real Madrid is where the cream want to play and they are only interested in buying the cream. English players rarely get looked at by them.

 

[messiahrobins]

View attachment 34737

Is this spot the Englishman?

 

[Otis]

Is this spot the Englishman?

No. Showing how many games Foden has played

 

[messiahrobins]

View attachment 34737

Out of interest where would you say Foden's best position is?
To me its the no 10 role and Bellingham at his best in the no.8 role but Southgate will never be that adventurous.

 

[messiahrobins]

No. Showing how many games Foden has played

Id like to see his minutes in each position he has played. I worry Pep is actually spoiling Foden by playing him out wide so often when he isnt a wide player unlike say Saka for isntance.

 

[Otis]

Out of interest where would you say Foden's best position is?
To me its the no 10 role and Bellingham at his best in the no.8 role but Southgate will never be that adventurous.

I like to see him in a freer role to be honest.

He does often play wide for Man City, but is given licence times to play with a bit more freedom

He just seems more rigid for England. Maybe he's not, but it appears that way to me.

 

[messiahrobins]

I like to see him in a freer role to be honest.

He does often play wide for Man City, but is given licence times to play with a bit more freedom

He just seems more rigid for England. Maybe he's not, but it appears that way to me.

He was anonymous last night and Wendell is not a great FB either. Southgate i think is now out of his league tbh, Brazil tactically found it really easy and were inviting the press all night to hit us on the break as they, like all the top teams know, realised we have no pace in centre defence.

 

[Nick]

Man City, of course, play with two holding midfielders, but that is a sign of negative, unambitious football which we should never accept.

You keep saying this to defend Southgate.

 

[David O'Day]

Well they did against Huddersfield Town…

Against Liverpool they played 1 and pushed a cb into that role when needed allowing them to play 2 players in the 10 position.

So your point is?

 

[SBT]

So your point is?

My point is you can’t ‘unleash’ players all over the pitch without making compromises elsewhere. International football in 2024 is an inherently defensive game, but England apparently can’t play two DMs, or 3ATB, or one up front without being accused of playing anti-football.

 

[Mcbean]

Selfishly Maguire and Rash looked shit which is great for our semi - sadly mainooo looks quality which ain’t so good