Nick
Administrator
Again, what happens when a player drags it back and then forwards with their foot always in contact with the ball?
VAR needs an overhaul (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Voice_of_Reason
- Start date
Again, what happens when a player drags it back and then forwards with their foot always in contact with the ball?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Yep that’s why I think it needs clarifying in the laws for that exact reason.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
It’s just crap I’ve asked a number of referees who have run the line locally and the decision is made from when the ball is released. It’s so annoying that they followed the normal var protocol that didn’t fit at all with what was happening in front of them
Still fuming
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Last night moved me on
Collins and Bobby gifting them the winner when we were on top just reminded me this is a game and those involved even at a rally high level aren’t perfect
Nick
Administrator
What's that got to do with it?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Just moved me on
Gynnsthetonic
Well-Known Member
Things like this, the Thierry Henry handball and Frank Lampards goal v Germany that never was yes its what VaR is for, I've got to say I'm still really pissed off 5 days later. The play off defeat i thought we'll get another crack or go up automatically sooner rather than later, to reach the FA Cup Final might never happen again
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Sympathise with them because they are being asked to do so much & everything about it is subjective & imo unnecessary.
Look at the way they just guess where to put the lines for the offside too. I don't think people realise there is absolutely zero science behind it, just total guesswork using poor framerate cameras & terrible angles.
Again brings into question the line appearing to go through Wan-Bissaka's boot which we're seemingly never going to get an answer for.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Otis is right. The game wasn’t supposed to have this level of detail unless it’s where the ball is really as in has it crossed a line. Otherwise with moving players and the like you’ve got to give benefit to the attacker if they’re not obviously off. An error of a couple of cm isn’t clear and obvious in anyone’s book IMO.
Otis
Well-Known Member
It's nuts.
I believe in the concept of VAR and do feel that it could be for the greater good, but watching that clip, they have created a monster.
Absolutely ridiculous the petty levels they have brought it down to and worse of all, they have done so using a low level technology at hand that simply isn't up to the job.
I would have laughed at that Spurs clip if it hadn't been so utterly ludicrous and jaw-droppingly insane.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
ProfessorbyGrace
Well-Known Member
What immediately comes to mind, is the speed at which this bureaucracy takes place; no time to reason, to process, to make the squiggly lines less shit and wonky.
They still take an age to get through it, but wow. The whole thing is just…diabolical. Feels like football fascism to me, but there we are.
withnail
Well-Known Member
personally I love VAR. It’s great.
In fact i think they should just get the “officials“ to emulate the whole game in their box with their lines, and computers and pixels and shit. Then we could all just stay at home and get told the result by email…
”You lost 4:2. celebrate 2 times and clap for 3 subs and cheer the ref falling over once.This result was brought to you by BetFred, Ladbrokes, William bastardHill” Job done.
In fact i think they should just get the “officials“ to emulate the whole game in their box with their lines, and computers and pixels and shit. Then we could all just stay at home and get told the result by email…
”You lost 4:2. celebrate 2 times and clap for 3 subs and cheer the ref falling over once.This result was brought to you by BetFred, Ladbrokes, William bastardHill” Job done.
Nuskyblue
Well-Known Member
This is why you need a big fat margin of error.
There are so many variables, and like you say, the guesswork to determine the frame and the body part are so basic. The Chelsea offside and ours are to close to call, inconclusive.
The lines are infuriating, for me, offside can be checked in slow mo with the naked eye to ensure there are no howlers. If you can't tell after two playbacks it's a goal for me.
Nuskyblue
Well-Known Member
I make you right, the argument against is always "offside is black and white, you're either offside or your onside".
The Chelsea clip shows that they're basically guessing where to apply the lines using a frame that is inconclusive. They are trying to apply millimetric accuracy to something that they really can't. The margin of error must be substantial.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Yeah there’s definitely a play for replays in the game. Modern football is well covered enough. I like the idea of giving teams one or two requests a game, but I’d have the ref going to the sidelines to review the footage, not sending a request to some people in a portacabin miles away.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The fact they’re using 50fps cameras when every 12 year old has a camera capable of 120fps in their pocket blows my mind. The richest league in the world with worse tech than Devan off the estate.
Calista
Well-Known Member
As someone who supports VAR in principle, I find this 5 minute conversation completely bonkers and unacceptable. They are playing around with centimeters when the lines drawn for offside should be a foot wide, with any overlap meaning onside. Give them 20 seconds max to announce a decision, if it's not clearly offside in that time it's fine.
And bizarrely, they spend 3 minutes calculating the offside before checking whether they even needed to bother, by going back to look at the preceding foul!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Been a lot of talk about frame rates, which is 100% a problem because the maths simply doesn't support the level of accuracy they're applying.
But there's also an issue of camera angles, they're essentially drawing lines based on guesswork as the camera is rarely dead in line. Posted this before, and it relates to hockey, but it illustrates how much the camera not being in line can affect things.
In simple terms it is just not possible to use the tech in the way they are trying to use it, the margin of error is so significant you really need to go back to 'clear and obvious', something that you can see on first viewing at full speed. Not something that takes 5 minutes of slow motion and drawing lines.
Be manipulated by the team's,I mean not literally, no form of alteration will work,bin it?
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Agree 100%
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
So “VAR” done right:
- Each team gets two challenges a game
- Ref can request footage review at any time he’s not sure
- Min 4 x 240fps cameras recording, perhaps an assistant video guy who can quickly get different views/slow mo’s to the ref.
- 30 sec review at most
- Ref watches on monitor at pitch side
- Goes with his best judgement after review
- Offside law modified to give attacker margin of error
- Goal line tech remains/expanded for all edges of the pitch if possible
Would most back that?
- Each team gets two challenges a game
- Ref can request footage review at any time he’s not sure
- Min 4 x 240fps cameras recording, perhaps an assistant video guy who can quickly get different views/slow mo’s to the ref.
- 30 sec review at most
- Ref watches on monitor at pitch side
- Goes with his best judgement after review
- Offside law modified to give attacker margin of error
- Goal line tech remains/expanded for all edges of the pitch if possible
Would most back that?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Not sure how you could work this in football but in ice hockey if you challenge and you're wrong your team gets a penalty - which means you're a player short for 2 minutes. End result is teams don't challenge just because they hope something will be found, they are 99% certain any challenge is going to be successful
No just bin it off and go back to blaming the ref!
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
On the one the seem to not take the fame where the player first makes contact with the ball?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I’d be happy with goal line technology and that’s it.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
nah, it needs to be there but for actual fuck ups, say like the Leeds goal against Boro.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
If they’re overly blatant then fair enough but I wouldn’t have it in it current form, it’s shit.
Absolutely not. Slows down the game, encourages more tactical/cynical stoppages, gives a new advantage to bigger/wealthier teams, and exposes the ref to yet another genre of partisan criticism (“They deliberately took more than/less than 30 seconds” etc etc)
