The no loans strategy (11 Viewers)

[skybluecam]

Maybe the Semi was a lesson for DK

first goal scored by Simms, second goal scored by COH third goal scored by Haji, 4th goal scored by Torp … All Cov players

Hate to break it to you but we did lose that game.

We’ve ultimately come up short this season.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

Maybe the Semi was a lesson for DK

first goal scored by Simms, second goal scored by COH third goal scored by Haji, 4th goal scored by Torp … All Cov players

All 3 goals conceded by cov players so let's net that one off to zero. Two penalties missed in the shootout as well.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Maybe the Semi was a lesson for DK

first goal scored by Simms, second goal scored by COH third goal scored by Haji, 4th goal scored by Torp … All Cov players

You do realise you can have permanent players and loans.

I don’t think the Hull or Ipswich managers or fans are saying how they wish they had our model and wish they didn't have any of those horrible loan players. It was a mistake not to utilise the loan market and I hope we have learned from it.

 

[play_in_skyblue_stripes]

Hate to break it to you but we did lose that game.

We’ve ultimately come up short this season.

We didn't lose the game, we lost a penalty shoot out. In my view also we did actually win the game(short of holding out for about 30 seconds to a minute after we scored the winner that was taken away for some strange reason).
Semantics maybe but we didn't lose the game.

 

[skybluecam]

We didn't lose the game, we lost a penalty shoot out. In my view also we did actually win the game(short of holding out for about 30 seconds to a minute after we scored the winner that was taken away for some strange reason).
Semantics maybe but we didn't lose the game.

 

[Deity]

Hate to break it to you but we did lose that game.

We’ve ultimately come up short this season.

Came up short of what ?

I didn’t expect us to win the FA Cup or get promoted.

We have finished where I thought we would.

 

[skybluecam]

Came up short of what ?

I didn’t expect us to win the FA Cup or get promoted.

We have finished where I thought we would.

Reaching the playoffs.

 

[Deity]

You do realise you can have permanent players and loans.

I don’t think the Hull or Ipswich managers or fans are saying how they wish they had our model and wish they didn't have any of those horrible loan players. It was a mistake not to utilise the loan market and I hope we have learned from it.

We have had 2 loans this season. Binks and Ayari. Didn’t set the world alight did they …..

I do think loans have their place but the idea that if we had 1or 2 more might have made the difference I think is folly.

if Tats hasn’t got injured …
If Robins had changed formation earlier in the campaign …
If Simms had been given a proper run of games earlier in the season
If COH form hadn’t fallen off a cliff
If the 2 loans we did get had been better

There are so many variables ….more Loans is just one of them.

 

[skybluecam]

We have had 2 loans this season. Binks and Ayari. Didn’t set the world alight did they …..

I do think loans have their place but the idea that if we had 1or 2 more might have made the difference I think is folly.

if Tats hasn’t got injured …
If Robins had changed formation earlier in the campaign …
If Simms had been given a proper run of games earlier in the season
If COH form hadn’t fallen off a cliff
If the 2 loans we did get had been better

There are so many variables ….more Loans is just one of them.

Binks has been a valuable member of the squad.

Robins changing formation and Tats’ injury is exactly why we would’ve benefited from loans… this is simple stuff.

 

[Liquid Gold]

The Hull game should have been a lesson for DK if he’s still against loans.

1st hull goal assisted by Carvalho (loanee). 2nd is a penalty won by Delap (loanee) scored by Carvalho (loanee). 3rd is scored by Ohio (loanee).

Meanwhile we’re dredging up Kelly, Godden, Dasilva playing on the wing etc just to put a team out.

In the likely event Hull don't reach playoffs and even more likely event Hull don't get promoted then Carvalho (loanee), Delap (loanee) & Ohio (loanee) along with Zaoury (loanee) and Giles (loanee) return to their parent clubs and Hull have to completely rebuild their squad again over the summer after spunking millions away on players they don't own.

There is an argument for using the loan market well but Hull isn't it.

 

[Deity]

Binks has been a valuable member of the squad.

Robins changing formation and Tats’ injury is exactly why we would’ve benefited from loans… this is simple stuff.

I see no evidence that Binks has made a material contribution. People are arguing for loans to give us the X factor not fill up the squad !

Saying we need more loans is lazy and ignores the variety of other factors that also have contributed.

 

[shmmeee]

Reaching the playoffs.

If you see it as a five year project I think this year is all about building the foundations for the next four. Moving from a squad reliant on the form of two players to one that can sustainably challenge for playoffs every season and handle the same of a player or two each season.

I expected mid table and signs of things to come. I think the 15-20 game period in the middle showed enough for me to call this season a success

 

[skybluecam]

I see no evidence that Binks has made a material contribution. People are arguing for loans to give us the X factor not fill up the squad !

Saying we need more loans is lazy and ignores the variety of other factors that also have contributed.

Loans should be used to fill up the squad. That’s their best purpose. Short term solutions to short term problems, such as switching formations mid season without the squad to do so.

 

[Deity]

Loans should be used to fill up the squad. That’s their best purpose. Short term solutions to short term problems, such as switching formations mid season without the squad to do so.

We have very different views on why you bring loan players in …..

 

[skybluecam]

We have very different views on why you bring loan players in …..

Clearly, and that’s where you’re going wrong.

If you bring a loan player in expecting them to be the “x factor” you run into problems 1) if they aren’t and 2) if they are, when they leave.

Better to use loans to solve problems like a lack of depth. If we’d have brought in 2 wide players on loan to back up Wright and Saka we’d probably be in the playoffs right now.

 

[skybluecam]

In the likely event Hull don't reach playoffs and even more likely event Hull don't get promoted then Carvalho (loanee), Delap (loanee) & Ohio (loanee) along with Zaoury (loanee) and Giles (loanee) return to their parent clubs and Hull have to completely rebuild their squad again over the summer after spunking millions away on players they don't own.

There is an argument for using the loan market well but Hull isn't it.

I’m not suggesting we bring in loads. But that game was evidence they can contribute, and we would’ve benefited from such contributions. Someone like Zaroury on loan to add depth on the wing would’ve been massive for us.

 

[Deity]

I’m not suggesting we bring in loads. But that game was evidence they can contribute, and we would’ve benefited from such contributions. Someone like Zaroury on loan to add depth on the wing would’ve been massive for us.

He’s not a squad loan is he ! You’ve just argued against yourself

 

[skybluecam]

He’s not a squad loan is he ! You’ve just argued against yourself

Just an example of a championship quality winger available on loan.

He wasn’t even starting for Hull before he got injured.

 

[clint van damme]

I see no evidence that Binks has made a material contribution. People are arguing for loans to give us the X factor not fill up the squad !

Saying we need more loans is lazy and ignores the variety of other factors that also have contributed.

It's not lazy.
We have 3 options:

Fund an adequately sized squad full of contracted players .

Operate with a smaller squad of contracted players but supplement it with loans.

Operate with a squad of contracted players which is too small.

I think we'd all like option1, but given that's not happening some seem to prefer option 3 as next best, which is truly bizarre.

 

[mmttww]

A lot of assumptions being made in here re: the impact a loan or two in Jan would have had.

We've not lost points because we can't score goals. We've been giving goals and points away.

In Jan, I don't remember any talk about loans to cover or replace Thomas, Kitching and Collins.

but it's been those three dropping clangers, gifting goals, costing us points during the run in.

I get a RW on loan in Jan means MVE is at RB and we're stronger, but that's not what killed us.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I’m not suggesting we bring in loads. But that game was evidence they can contribute, and we would’ve benefited from such contributions. Someone like Zaroury on loan to add depth on the wing would’ve been massive for us.

Yes, it would helped with the loss of Sakamoto because we’ve not looked right without him.

That said, 1-2 loanees probably wouldn’t have made the difference in the long run. Given how tired the whole team looks right now.

The lack of a loan signing in Jan is an easy thing to point at and to add that that, the issue is the squad depth as a whole. In midfield, Eccles and Sheaf had to play a lot of minutes and because Sheaf gets injured, Torp gets thrown in prematurely. By this point in the season they’re knackered. That applies to Wright, Simms, MVE and more players across the team.

 

[skybluecam]

Yes, it would helped with the loss of Sakamoto because we’ve not looked right without him.

That said, 1-2 loanees probably wouldn’t have made the difference in the long run. Given how tired the whole team looks right now.

The lack of a loan signing in Jan is an easy thing to point at and to add that that, the issue is the squad depth as a whole. In midfield, Eccles and Sheaf had to play a lot of minutes and because Sheaf gets injured, Torp gets thrown in prematurely. By this point in the season they’re knackered. That applies to Wright, Simms, MVE and more players across the team.

I think it would- a versatile winger would’ve allowed Wright and Saka rest, plus Milan wouldn’t be forced to play on the wing.

Our problem isn’t lack of depth in central mid, it’s the quality of that depth. But if we had a proper winger playing we could probably have got away with Kelly or Allen giving Sheaf/Eccles a rest.

 

[Deity]

It's not lazy.
We have 3 options:

Fund an adequately sized squad full of contracted players .

Operate with a smaller squad of contracted players but supplement it with loans.

Operate with a squad of contracted players which is too small.

I think we'd all like option1, but given that's not happening some seem to prefer option 3 as next best, which is truly bizarre.

We had Two loans ….

we can’t have it both ways ….

when we had 4 loans everyone said it was too many !!!

 

[clint van damme]

We had Two loans ….

we can’t have it both ways ….

when we had 4 loans everyone said it was too many !!!

It depends what percentage of your squad 4 is.
When 3 of your back 4 are loans then that's not good.
If your 4 loans are spread throughout the squad that's different.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think it would- a versatile winger would’ve allowed Wright and Saka rest, plus Milan wouldn’t be forced to play on the wing.

Our problem isn’t lack of depth in central mid, it’s the quality of that depth. But if we had a proper winger playing we could probably have got away with Kelly or Allen giving Sheaf/Eccles a rest.

I was using CM as an example. 1-2 loans would’ve made some difference, however, it’s not the silver bullet we think it is. Kelly and Allen aren’t adequate depth for where we want to be.

Hull went all in on loans in Jan and could miss out on playoffs just like us.

In short, we’re not as close being a playoff/automatics team as we think. I’ve said previously that we’re close but if we need 6+ players to get there, it’s still a long way to go.

 

[clint van damme]

I was using CM as an example. 1-2 loans would’ve made some difference, however, it’s not the silver bullet we think it is. Kelly and Allen aren’t adequate depth for where we want to be.

Hull went all in on loans in Jan and could miss out on playoffs just like us.

In short, we’re not as close being a playoff/automatics team as we think. I’ve said previously that we’re close but if we need 6+ players to get there, it’s still a long way to go.

But you even said in a previous post squad size is an issue. Of course bringing loans I doesn't automatically solve that but we need to address it one way or another, a paper thin squad has been an issue for the last 3 seasons.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

But you even said in a previous post squad size is an issue. Of course bringing loans I doesn't automatically solve that but we need to address it one way or another, a paper thin squad has been an issue for the last 3 seasons.

It is an issue and something to be addressed incrementally. That is, if you want the quality to improve. We could go out and buy ‘jacket fillers’ like Maguire last season or one of the numerous signings Mowbray or Slade made in Jan.

Peterborough pulled the plug on EMC coming in Jan which impacted our plans. With the benefit of hindsight, we probably should’ve looked at a loanee but on deadline day the club thought they’d agreed a deal to take EMC permanently.

With the long term in mind, there are probably FFP considerations. We’ve more or less committed our entire transfer receipts for Hamer and Gyokeres. As MR has said many times, things have got to be done incrementally and ‘sustainably’.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

I was using CM as an example. 1-2 loans would’ve made some difference, however, it’s not the silver bullet we think it is. Kelly and Allen aren’t adequate depth for where we want to be.

Hull went all in on loans in Jan and could miss out on playoffs just like us.

In short, we’re not as close being a playoff/automatics team as we think. I’ve said previously that we’re close but if we need 6+ players to get there, it’s still a long way to go.

Allen and Kelly are fine for depth as is Latibeaudiere when you have Sheaf, Eccles and Torp for two spots. Your obsession about CM is very odd.

The problem was zero cover for Wright and Sakamoto.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Allen and Kelly are fine for depth as is Latibeaudiere when you have Sheaf, Eccles and Torp for two spots. Your obsession about CM is very odd.

The problem was zero cover for Wright and Sakamoto.

Beggars belief. Having one or two wingers wouldn’t have saved the season.

3 players competing for 2 slots in a 48+ game season is asking for trouble. Lati is not a CM and proved that in the games he’s played there. He’s also covering 3 or 4 positions.

Allen’s primary position for us is AM, specifically in ‘the box’ that we no longer play. As for Kelly, if you’ve seen him play at all this season you can’t possibly believe he’s a CM that he’s ‘fine’ for cover. These are two player that would struggle to find Championship clubs if we let them go at the end of the season.

Either way, we’re signing at least 1 CM in the summer so MR and his staff have an idea to improve that area. Perhaps it isn’t such an odd obsession after all.

 

[Cally Fedora]

Calling for loans is easy in hindsight. Go back to Jan - who are you going and getting? Do you waste one on cover for Sakamoto? Would anyone loan you someone who they know won’t play in front of him? You’d probably get a CF as Simms isn’t firing - look how much damage that might have done. The reasons go on. Loans are rarely a good option.

 

[skybluecam]

Calling for loans is easy in hindsight. Go back to Jan - who are you going and getting? Do you waste one on cover for Sakamoto? Would anyone loan you someone who they know won’t play in front of him? You’d probably get a CF as Simms isn’t firing - look how much damage that might have done. The reasons go on. Loans are rarely a good option.

Waste? I was crying out for a winger on loan

Something is better than nothing. We sat on our hands and missed out.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Calling for loans is easy in hindsight. Go back to Jan - who are you going and getting? Do you waste one on cover for Sakamoto? Would anyone loan you someone who they know won’t play in front of him? You’d probably get a CF as Simms isn’t firing - look how much damage that might have done. The reasons go on. Loans are rarely a good option.

So rare indeed. In recent years only:

Walsh
James
Ostigaard
O'Hare
Sheaf
Gyokeres
McNally
Doyle
Norton-Cuffy

Not much there really.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

The loans would have allowed us to rotate, which is why the loans would have been better in positions which require rotating more regularly.

 

[Liquid Gold]

For those calling for a loan in Jan.

Would you have taken us loaning in a player in January this season if it meant us missing out on a permanent signing this summer?

I know this is a hypothetical but as Robins has always said "you can only spend a pound once"

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

For those calling for a loan in Jan.

Would you have taken us loaning in a player in January this season if it meant us missing out on a permanent signing this summer?

I know this is a hypothetical but as Robins has always said "you can only spend a pound once"

This was my thinking too, if we’d focused on getting a loan rather than EMC, would we have missed out on him altogether? He looks an absolute steal.

Something that a lot of people are missing is that on deadline day, we didn’t need to sign a loanee winger because we’d agreed to sign EMC permanent to join us in Jan and Peterborough pulled out at the 11th hour.