Do you want to discuss boring politics? (226 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

A lot of the unbuilt areas aren't suitable. And if we start getting rid of green spaces and cutting down forest the physical and mental health of the country will drop off a cliff.

And a lot of them are. There’s absolutely loads of land and we basically have one large city. We could increase density in London alone by a couple of million

 

---

[shmmeee]

Even Mr Anti-immigration can’t answer who he’d stop coming in so don’t feel bad Mucca

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Net migration into the UK has slowed down significantly in parallel with the economy. How on earth can adding more people be a drain on the value of goods and services being sold?

The UK net migration rate is significantly lower than the USA.

Funnily enough, people are starting to correlate increasing net migration with slowing growth in GDP per head. That’s just think tank big wigs.

All of this is moot when every government elected since 1997 has made promises around immigration control/reducing net migration. If one issue symbolises the decaying trust in politicians, it’s this.

 

[shmmeee]

I said that illegal immigration was symbolic more than anything. The focus needs to be on reducing low skill, low wage migration and I don’t understand why people of the left would oppose that.

To change the topic slightly because immigration is not a policy priority for me and never has been and probably never will be.

What are you actually dissatisfied with? When we talk about the state of the country, be it the NHS, education and immigration… it doesn’t seem like you want to change anything. Not in a facetious way, I just want to see things from your POV.

My main concern is the economy TBH. We’ve been stagnant since 2008.

I’m a techno optimist at heart. I want a high skilled workforce and an economy that encourages innovation. I think housing and infrastructure are holding us back and making us poorer and if we solved them a lot of the problems would go away.

I think a lot of the problems with small boats and public services are purely down to the incompetence of government post 2016 and especially post the 2019 intelligence purge.

There’s lots of things I’d like to see changed. The education system needs reform, we should be transitioning to a clean high energy society with nuclear, I want homelessness and child poverty reduced massively. Those last two are Labour priorities. I want them to do planning reform but we’ll see how they do against the vested interests in this country.

I want the NHS to start using its advantages in data collection to increase innovation and reduce costs and I want us to stop being such fucking pussies about “our data”, I want govt to massively increase data access especially for things like PAF (Labour have said they might do this) to increase innovation. I want high density cities connected by high speed rail.

I want a government that recognises our international strengths in computing, media, and education rather than rails against them.

But most of all I want competence in government to do the basics right because that matters more.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

And a lot of them are. There’s absolutely loads of land and we basically have one large city. We could increase density in London alone by a couple of million

Health in London is shit. And they've even got a large number of parks, certainly in central areas.

 

[shmmeee]

Health in London is shit. And they've even got a large number of parks, certainly in central areas.

And what makes you think that’s because of the number of houses?

 

[MalcSB]

What do we think of lowering the voting age to 16. Personally I think it is madness to give the vote to someone who cannot sell me a lottery ticket or a bottle of zero alcohol beer and that it is akin to gerrymandering.

 

[Ian1779]

What do we think of lowering the voting age to 16. Personally I think it is madness to give the vote to someone who cannot sell me a lottery ticket or a bottle of zero alcohol beer and that it is akin to gerrymandering.

I think it’s a good idea, and I’m not sure it’s any more controversial than capping the voting age at something like 75. At the very least they have a say in the country they have to live their adults lives in.

 

[skybluetony176]

I think it’s a good idea, and I’m not sure it’s any more controversial than capping the voting age at something like 75. At the very least they have a say in the country they have to live their adults lives in.

There’s a far stronger case for capping right to vote at 75 than there is for stopping 16 and 17 year olds having a vote. Not least because the law of averages says that at 76+ you’re unlikely to see that parliament out unlike a 16 or 17 year old . My eldest is going to narrowly miss out voting this time at a GE yet she’s more likely to feel the consequences of her grandparents vote than they are. I also doubt that her opinions have changed that much since she turned 16 either, for as long as I remember she has always said that she’ll only ever vote green.

 

[shmmeee]

she’ll only ever vote green.

As solid an argument against the policy as you’ll find

 

[shmmeee]

Not a fan myself and I do suspect Labour wouldn’t be pushing for it if 16/17 year olds were all massive Tories.

I’d much rather we rationalised everything else (driving, marriage, school leaving, etc) to 18 than the other way.

 

[MalcSB]

There’s a far stronger case for capping right to vote at 75 than there is for stopping 16 and 17 year olds having a vote. Not least because the law of averages says that at 76+ you’re unlikely to see that parliament out unlike a 16 or 17 year old . My eldest is going to narrowly miss out voting this time at a GE yet she’s more likely to feel the consequences of her grandparents vote than they are. I also doubt that her opinions have changed that much since she turned 16 either, for as long as I remember she has always said that she’ll only ever vote green.

16 year olds will be able to bring so much experience of life to the process.
If living to to the end of a Parliament should be a factor, why not let 13 year olds vote.

 

[Sick Boy]

If a 16 year old is working full time and paying taxes, they have as much right to have a say as everyone else.

 

[MalcSB]

Not a fan myself and I do suspect Labour wouldn’t be pushing for it if 16/17 year olds were all massive Tories.

I’d much rather we rationalised everything else (driving, marriage, school leaving, etc) to 18 than the other way.

As I said, it would be an attempt to rig the vote. Having a single party permanently in power with no chance of an effective opposition would be disastrous. Could even be a precursor to an eventual one party state with all the risks that would entail.

 

[MalcSB]

If a 16 year old is working full time and paying taxes, they have as much right to have a say as everyone else.

OK, let’s make payment of income tax the criterion.

 

[shmmeee]

If a 16 year old is working full time and paying taxes, they have as much right to have a say as everyone else.

No 16 year old is working full time. They have to be in at least some education.

Everyone pays taxes, even my 9 year old. There’s no lower age limit.

 

[shmmeee]

Farage having a meltdown.

 

[Sick Boy]

No 16 year old is working full time. They have to be in at least some education.

Everyone pays taxes, even my 9 year old. There’s no lower age limit.

Showing my age there

 

[MalcSB]

No 16 year old is working full time. They have to be in at least some education.

Everyone pays taxes, even my 9 year old. There’s no lower age limit.

I think he meant income tax.

 

[shmmeee]

I think he meant income tax.

If she earned enough she’d pay that too. It’s only NI that starts at 16

 

[shmmeee]

I get it. There’s plenty of things that sort of treat 16 year olds as adults. Marriage, sex, national insurance, the care system I think says you can live on your own. But the trend has been to raise things to 18: smoking, education etc.

The age of majority is 18 still and IMO we’re more likely to raise other things than say lower the drinking or driving age to 16. And as I say it does feel like a way to get some free votes which doesn’t sit right with me.

 

[alexccfc99]

Farage standing is fantastic news for Labour

I genuinely believe the Tories will struggle to get over 75 seats

 

[shmmeee]

This sort of shite is why I don’t see the Green Party as some cuddly alternative to Labour. Straight up dangerous and anti medicine policy that would result in more dead mothers and children.

 

[Grendel]

Farage standing is fantastic news for Labour

I genuinely believe the Tories will struggle to get over 75 seats

That is of course what Farage wants.

 

[MalcSB]

This sort of shite is why I don’t see the Green Party as some cuddly alternative to Labour. Straight up dangerous and anti medicine policy that would result in more dead mothers and children.

View attachment 35976

To be fair, there has been pressure and, IIRC, targets to reduce the number of elective Caesarian sections for quite some time.

 

[PVA]

Farage having a meltdown.

Ha he's such a bellend.

This is probably my favourite Farage TV humiliation.

Absolutely two footed him.

 

[fernandopartridge]

What do we think of lowering the voting age to 16. Personally I think it is madness to give the vote to someone who cannot sell me a lottery ticket or a bottle of zero alcohol beer and that it is akin to gerrymandering.

On the other hand they can work full time, why shouldn't they be able to vote?

 

[fernandopartridge]

16 year olds will be able to bring so much experience of life to the process.
If living to to the end of a Parliament should be a factor, why not let 13 year olds vote.

Bitter boomers life experience has served us well

 

[shmmeee]

To be fair, there has been pressure and, IIRC, targets to reduce the number of elective Caesarian sections for quite some time.

Childbirth is absolutely a medical event. It’s classic Green floaty language about natural being best.

 

[skybluetony176]

16 year olds will be able to bring so much experience of life to the process.
If living to to the end of a Parliament should be a factor, why not let 13 year olds vote.

Being older than 16 doesn’t automatically make you more sensible, as evidence of this I present Liz Truss. 16 is the age you become an adult in law so it’s only right that they get the vote. You’re being deliberately flippant saying why not let 13 year olds and it adds nothing to the discussion. For the record I wouldn’t consider banning over 75 year olds from voting, I’m just making the point that there’s more of an argument to allow 16 year olds vote than there is over 75’s.

I think the crux of the problem is that the older generations don’t like that it’s 16+ year olds that are shaping the country so they want to delay that process. Despite the fact that when they were in their teens right up until they retired they were the ones shaping the country. The national service argument is the ideal example of this. I’m 51 and I’m hearing some people of a similar age and older going yeah that’s a good idea, that will sort out the youth. Oblivious to the fact that old people were saying the exact same thing about them when they were a teenager. Yes your children and grandchildren don’t hold all your values, suck it up snowflakes, your grandparents and parents probably had the same issue with you when you were younger.

 

[shmmeee]

Being older than 16 doesn’t automatically make you more sensible, as evidence of this I present Liz Truss. 16 is the age you become an adult in law so it’s only right that they get the vote. You’re being deliberately flippant saying why not let 13 year olds and it adds nothing to the discussion. For the record I wouldn’t consider banning over 75 year olds from voting, I’m just making the point that there’s more of an argument to allow 16 year olds vote than there is over 75’s.

I think the crux of the problem is that the older generations don’t like that it’s 16+ year olds that are shaping the country so they want to delay that process. Despite the fact that when they were in their teens right up until they retired they were the ones shaping the country. The national service argument is the ideal example of this. I’m 51 and I’m hearing some people of a similar age and older going yeah that’s a good idea, that will sort out the youth. Oblivious to the fact that old people were saying the exact same thing about them when they were a teenager. Yes your children and grandchildren don’t hold all your values, suck it up snowflakes, your grandparents and parents probably had the same issue with you when you were younger.

16 is not the age you become an adult in law. That’s 18.

 

[fernandopartridge]

This sort of shite is why I don’t see the Green Party as some cuddly alternative to Labour. Straight up dangerous and anti medicine policy that would result in more dead mothers and children.

View attachment 35976

The two things they've written there seem contradictory to me, why shouldn't a woman have her choice of delivery method given that she's been given an explanation of associated risks? The reference to the cost of a section is alarming, sounds like something you'd hear from a Tory.

 

[Grendel]

Being older than 16 doesn’t automatically make you more sensible, as evidence of this I present Liz Truss. 16 is the age you become an adult in law so it’s only right that they get the vote. You’re being deliberately flippant saying why not let 13 year olds and it adds nothing to the discussion. For the record I wouldn’t consider banning over 75 year olds from voting, I’m just making the point that there’s more of an argument to allow 16 year olds vote than there is over 75’s.

I think the crux of the problem is that the older generations don’t like that it’s 16+ year olds that are shaping the country so they want to delay that process. Despite the fact that when they were in their teens right up until they retired they were the ones shaping the country. The national service argument is the ideal example of this. I’m 51 and I’m hearing some people of a similar age and older going yeah that’s a good idea, that will sort out the youth. Oblivious to the fact that old people were saying the exact same thing about them when they were a teenager. Yes your children and grandchildren don’t hold all your values, suck it up snowflakes, your grandparents and parents probably had the same issue with you when you were younger.

Why don’t we let 14 year olds vote then?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Speaking of recent experience in Walsgrave, they do try and push you to their birthing unit if no complications anyway, which is as natural and non medical as you can get. They also explain the risks of caesarian, so you know it's riskier than a natural birth.

Not sure the culture needs to change that much in that respect. There are things I'm really not sure about that happened, but if we're talking staff resource it's in the hospital's interests for things to go as smoothly and 'non-medically' as possible, anyway! It's not in their interests to push people towards caesarians unless needed.

 

[shmmeee]

Speaking of recent experience in Walsgrave, they do try and push you to their birthing unit if no complications anyway, which is as natural and non medical as you can get. They also explain the risks of caesarian, so you know it's riskier than a natural birth.

Not sure the culture needs to change that much in that respect. There are things I'm really not sure about that happened, but if we're talking staff resource it's in the hospital's interests for things to go as smoothly and 'non-medically' as possible, anyway! It's not in their interests to push people towards caesarians unless needed.

It’s not the sort of thing that should be government policy. Midwives in my experiences are generally anti cesarian anyway.