Do you want to discuss boring politics? (192 Viewers)

[CCFCSteve]

Scratch a fascist get a Tory. Why this guy is taken any more seriously than the Greens or other joke parties I’ll never understand.

Has he come out with his magic plan to save £35bn yet? Has he explained where the other £15bn from “efficiency savings” is coming from after 14 years of “efficiency savings” (cuts)?

It’s purely about tax cuts for him and his mates as always.

No. But he doesn’t like brown people so 20% in the polls

It’s ridiculous. It’s bad enough not getting straight answers from Tories or Labour but Reform are just making it up as they go along, nothing adds up. People cheering them on from the sidelines, mainly because of the damage it will do to the Tories, just don’t get it. Theyre encouraging the rise of a populist party that will promise the Earth and continue to sow division in the country.

I can’t really blame some of the disenfranchised/left behinds looking at alternative parties and there are some of Reforms policies like raising personal allowance higher, which I think make sense, however, the country will be in a worse place if they continue to gain momentum.

The fringe parties should be under the same scrutiny as the big boys but they aren’t, so protest votes will go to parties and individuals that have unachievable aims and some underlying unsavoury policies/beliefs. We’ve only got ourselves to blame though, like many in Europe and also the US, large numbers just don’t feel like they’re being listened to.

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

You think the party of “let’s get wave machines to blow the dinghies back” hasn’t got the stomach to tackle immigration?

Or is it maybe that claiming to be able to halt immigration completely is a nonsense policy that’s undeliverable and the likes of Farage know this and are using it to get into power to give themselves tax cuts?

What are you talking about?

I’m talking about Labour and Tory policies. We need a sensible centre-left/centre-right government to tackle the issue. If they fail then something uglier could follow.

The only reason I ‘care’ about immigration as an issue is I see the potential ramifications of not dealing with it. In fact, just look at the salience of immigration across the EU members - their electoral systems make it far easier for more anti-immigration parties to cut through.

I’d rather not have our own homegrown Le Pen or Wilders gaining ascendence on our own political system.

 

[chiefdave]

The plans involve removing the chance for locals to block building by giving powers to metro mayors and dev corps in new towns to override those complaints…

I would say that is needed. Although does require a degree of trust in those in charge to make the 'right' decision that many people won't have.

How do you stop ending up in a situation like Kings Hill where planning permission has been granted for 2.5K but the landowner can't find a developer to build them?

Doesn't really help if you end up with planning permission for homes that aren't being built.

 

[skybluetony176]

Well, EU migration has declined so Brexit has delivered on that priority. However, ROW migration is up.

Was never going to be any different. And we’re still not having an honest conversation about immigration in politics. SNP aside.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I would say that is needed. Although does require a degree of trust in those in charge to make the 'right' decision that many people won't have.

How do you stop ending up in a situation like Kings Hill where planning permission has been granted for 2.5K but the landowner can't find a developer to build them?

Doesn't really help if you end up with planning permission for homes that aren't being built.

What I’ve heard from people who operate in the sector is planning committees fuck about that much, looking for the perfect rather than the practical/acceptable, by the time permissions are granted sometimes 2-3 years later and/or with unrealistic changes to original planning, it’s economic to build. If Labour can cut through this, they’ll have my vote as we’re nowhere near the numbers we need to build

 

[CCFCSteve]

Was never going to be any different. And we’re still not having an honest conversation about immigration in politics. SNP aside.

I know i link Syed regularly on here but it’s because he’s logical and mostly talks sense (he’s Labour/left leaning and a remainer just incase people wonder)

Farage is a snake, but if we were honest on migration he’d have no fangs

Farage is a snake, but if we were honest on migration he’d have no fangs

Prime ministers from Tony Blair onwards have ushered in cheap labour while vowing to stop it. That’s why trust in politics has gone

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[shmmeee]

I would say that is needed. Although does require a degree of trust in those in charge to make the 'right' decision that many people won't have.

How do you stop ending up in a situation like Kings Hill where planning permission has been granted for 2.5K but the landowner can't find a developer to build them?

Doesn't really help if you end up with planning permission for homes that aren't being built.

If there’s no market for the houses the. There’s not a housing shortage there so no worries.

I’ve got my doubts about what can be done but if anyone is going to tackle the huge vested interests it’ll be a new govt with a large majority.

 

[shmmeee]

What I’ve heard from people who operate in the sector is planning committees fuck about that much, looking for the perfect rather than the practical/acceptable, by the time permissions are granted sometimes 2-3 years later and/or with unrealistic changes to original planning, it’s economic to build. If Labour can cut through this, they’ll have my vote as we’re nowhere near the numbers we need to build

The more you look into it the more you see the current planning system as what’s holding us back. The effort that goes into getting around it is ridiculous and ends up with a chilling effect that people don’t bring projects forward unless they’re sure they’ll pass.

The cost of complaining is miniscule and the reward for complaining the other way non existent. It desperately needs reform.

 

[shmmeee]

What are you talking about?

I’m talking about Labour and Tory policies. We need a sensible centre-left/centre-right government to tackle the issue. If they fail then something uglier could follow.

The only reason I ‘care’ about immigration as an issue is I see the potential ramifications of not dealing with it. In fact, just look at the salience of immigration across the EU members - their electoral systems make it far easier for more anti-immigration parties to cut through.

I’d rather not have our own homegrown Le Pen or Wilders gaining ascendence on our own political system.

Im on about the government that’s been in place the last 8 years being the most anti immigration govt ever and immigration still rising. Because “taking it seriously” only works if there’s a serious answer. Which there isn’t.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s ridiculous. It’s bad enough not getting straight answers from Tories or Labour but Reform are just making it up as they go along, nothing adds up. People cheering them on from the sidelines, mainly because of the damage it will do to the Tories, just don’t get it. Theyre encouraging the rise of a populist party that will promise the Earth and continue to sow division in the country.

I can’t really blame some of the disenfranchised/left behinds looking at alternative parties and there are some of Reforms policies like raising personal allowance higher, which I think make sense, however, the country will be in a worse place if they continue to gain momentum.

The fringe parties should be under the same scrutiny as the big boys but they aren’t, so protest votes will go to parties and individuals that have unachievable aims and some underlying unsavoury policies/beliefs. We’ve only got ourselves to blame though, like many in Europe and also the US, large numbers just don’t feel like they’re being listened to.

Is it that they aren’t listened to or that their complaints are basically living in a globalised world and no politician can solve that?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Good. No one wants anything built in their town and now we haven’t built a reservoir in over 30 years.

We need to build stuff. You can’t preserve the country in aspic.

I don't disagree, reforming planning laws to prevent chronic nimyism is not the same as granting exceptional power to a minister of state.

 

[wingy]

I know i link Syed regularly on here but it’s because he’s logical and mostly talks sense (he’s Labour/left leaning and a remainer just incase people wonder)

Farage is a snake, but if we were honest on migration he’d have no fangs

Farage is a snake, but if we were honest on migration he’d have no fangs

Prime ministers from Tony Blair onwards have ushered in cheap labour while vowing to stop it. That’s why trust in politics has gone

www.thetimes.co.uk

Is it that they aren’t listened to or that their complaints are basically living in a globalised world and no politician can solve that?

Yet promoted in media to an obscene level!

 

[clint van damme]

What I’ve heard from people who operate in the sector is planning committees fuck about that much, looking for the perfect rather than the practical/acceptable, by the time permissions are granted sometimes 2-3 years later and/or with unrealistic changes to original planning, it’s economic to build. If Labour can cut through this, they’ll have my vote as we’re nowhere near the numbers we need to build

Unfortunately the planning permission issue is just one of several that needs overcoming to help solve the housing crisis but if this happens at least its a move in the right direction.

 

[shmmeee]

I don't disagree, reforming planning laws to prevent chronic nimyism is not the same as granting exceptional power to a minister of state.

Prisons are critical national infrastructure and the rules we have give that power to ministers already. This is just using that classification as it should be used IMO.

I’d hope that a lot of this is short term and that we can resolve the laws around consultation and how rejected apps are handled long term so it isn’t needed. Well see.

 

[shmmeee]

Unfortunately the planning permission issue is just one of several that needs overcoming to help solve the housing crisis but if this happens at least it’s a move in the right direction.

Sad that they aren’t getting rid of green belt TBH, but that’s one hell of a fight so I kinda get it.

I’d like to see similar to I forget which country/state that gave pre approval to any building up to six stories near rail stations. When you look at what’s around Cov station or even Canley it’s an absolute joke. Friargate should have proper housing all through it and instead we get a massive flat level car park or two.

 

[skybluetony176]

I know i link Syed regularly on here but it’s because he’s logical and mostly talks sense (he’s Labour/left leaning and a remainer just incase people wonder)

Farage is a snake, but if we were honest on migration he’d have no fangs

Farage is a snake, but if we were honest on migration he’d have no fangs

Prime ministers from Tony Blair onwards have ushered in cheap labour while vowing to stop it. That’s why trust in politics has gone

www.thetimes.co.uk

He mentions Blair and Cameron specifically but it’s still ongoing. Take the Hong Kong BNO scheme for example. Started under Boris, continued under Truss and Sunak. Sunak even extended it because it didn’t bring as much immigration as they hoped during its initial proposed period. It’s basically an open invitation to 6.5M people from Hong Kong who qualify. The Tories have been actively seeking and promoting immigration for the entire 14 years they’ve been in power regardless of who was PM while also trying to convince us that they’re the only ones who can get it under control. The other irony of Brexit is it’s highlighted just how much immigration is happening. Under freedom of movement no real records were kept under FOM as there was no onus to do so unless the government decided to as per other EU countries. Under rest of the world immigration everyone is counted without exception so the numbers are now a true reflection of the actual people coming in, making immigration a bigger drum to bang even though in reality it probably hasn’t changed that much in terms of numbers.

 

[shmmeee]

Speaking of flat car parks. Look at the multi-storey at UHCW that was rejected because it would ruins the views of residents. Next to a massive fucking hospital.

I mean look at this, must be 60% of the land is flat car parks. Insanity.

 

[shmmeee]

I know I’m preaching to the choir but look at Cov station, that bit ringed is all either flat car park or single story units. Put some dense housing in there FFS. It’s an hour from Euston!



Nuneaton, also an hour from Euston, same issues:

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Well, EU migration has declined so Brexit has delivered on that priority. However, ROW migration is up.

I don’t think Farage is the answer, but the electorate clearly does not trust either Labour or Conservative on this issue. Continued failure on this policy objective puts us on a trajectory of France and/or Germany where genuinely far right parties are leading polls.

I don’t want that, you don’t want that, none of us sane people want that. It will happen if neither main parties has the stomach to address it.

You keep talking about the far right in France and Germany as if its different from Farage. Please tell me how you think Farage is different from them. Or even Braverman and Sunak for that matter?

 

[Grendel]

You keep talking about the far right in France and Germany as if its different from Farage. Please tell me how you think Farage is different from them. Or even Braverman and Sunak for that matter?

Sunak is hardly far right - according to the shadow chancellor he is a socialist.

As for Farage the real difference is he’s not a mainstream politician who can actually be Prime Minister.

The irony I suspect in this election is that the whining Lib Dem’s who beat the PR drum will be a big beneficiary of the current system - 7% of the vote but an increase in seats against Reform with 20% and at best a couple of seats.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Sunak is hardly far right - according to the shadow chancellor he is a socialist.

As for Farage the real difference is he’s not a mainstream politician who can actually be Prime Minister.

The irony I suspect in this election is that the whining Lib Dem’s who beat the PR drum will be a big beneficiary of the current system - 7% of the vote but an increase in seats against Reform with 20% and at best a couple of seats.

It's a sign of how far politics has moved to the right in recent years if they are seen as moderate. I see no difference between Farage, Braverman and co and the hard right in Europe.

As for Sunak, he appointed Braverman as Home Secretary. Also his chief policy is about sending asylum seekers to an African country apparently contrary to international law. Feels pretty far right to me.

 

[wingy]

It's a sign of how far politics has moved to the right in recent years if they are seen as moderate. I see no difference between Farage, Braverman and co and the hard right in Europe.

As for Sunak, he appointed Braverman as Home Secretary. Also his chief policy is about sending asylum seekers to an African country apparently contrary to international law. Feels pretty far right to me.

She's a fascist!!

 

[CCFCSteve]

Is it that they aren’t listened to or that their complaints are basically living in a globalised world and no politician can solve that?

It’s a fair question. Probably a bit of both. Politicians can’t solve everything but can at least try to address some concerns/issues that flow from globalisation. On the flip side, we as populations, can’t expect all the benefits and none of the negatives

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Clueless

 

[Evo1883]

 

[Evo1883]

 

[CCFCSteve]

Heard about this on LBC earlier. He’s also got an ‘interesting’ take on women.

Reform UK candidate apologises over Hitler neutrality comments - BBC News

Ian Gribbin says his grandparents were "Russian Jews fleeing persecution" and his comments were taken out of context.

www.bbc.co.uk

People really want an increase in support of idiots like this just so the Tories get a few less seats in an election they’re going to comfortably lose anyway ?! Crazy

 

[skybluetony176]

They don’t understand our culture.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Clueless

it's irrelevant in reality - the additional cost will be incorporated into the overall formula, they don't just count pupils x bowl of cereal.

 

[Skybluekyle]

It's very unlikely the UK could have avoided war if it wanted to. It's true that Hitler, even before the war, seeked an Anglo-German alliance, and early in the war offered peace. But the UK at the time was a superpower with a footprint on almost every continent on earth. Germany had the policy of creating "lebensraum", the Soviet Union had eyes on eastern Europe, and Japan wanted to dominate Asia and was already at war with China.

At one stage the war was going to end up at France's boundaries, and due to entente cordiale, would be difficult for the UK to say no if France asked for assistance, or one of its territories in Asia, such as Hong Kong or Singapore, would be attacked (which of course they were). Given that Japan attacked a then neutral USA, although due to lend-lease it was obviously favourable to the Allies, illustrated that nothing, even the threat of bringing in another power into the war, would stand in the way of their aims.

And I am fairly certain the British people did not want to go to war and pacifism was rife at the time, was due to WWI still weighing heavy on the public consciousness. Obviously it's all speculation, but war seemed unavoidable to me.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Farage is quite odd really and brexit is a bit of a case of being careful what you wish for - there are 150 of his type of people sat in the European parliament now, it represents in theory a much easier path for him to have some role in parliament.

The media should ignore him, he is no more important than any other candidating contesting a seat.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

They don’t understand our culture.

I wonder what Farage was implying with that comment about Sunak.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Farage is quite odd really and brexit is a bit of a case of being careful what you wish for - there are 150 of his type of people sat in the European parliament now, it represents in theory a much easier path for him to have some role in parliament.

The media should ignore him, he is no more important than any other candidating contesting a seat.

It's interesting though that they Euro scepticism has been tempered by Brexit.

If Farage had not been given so much publicity since 2016 immigration would never have been a mainstream issue in this country.

 

[Evo1883]

Jesus wept

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It's interesting though that they Euro scepticism has been tempered by Brexit.

If Farage had not been given so much publicity since 2016 immigration would never have been a mainstream issue in this country.

This line of thinking shows how disconnected a lot of Labour thinkers are from their core voters. The electorate has had immigration on its mind since the New Labour years.

Immigration was a mainstream issue before UKIP was a meaningful force in UK politics. The odious BNP nearly won MPs before 2010. It’s simply not true to pretend it’s all Farage’s fault.