Do you want to discuss boring politics? (177 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

You can do this with any government. Looking for a government that has never made a policy error is a ridiculous bar that no government in history meets.

On the big things Labour got far more right than the Tories have and it’s not even close.

They did. Blair/Brown changed so many things for the better.

 

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[SIR ERNIE]

Haha. I'll counter you with Gullis, Lee Anderson, Braverman, Johnson. Fuck.

Completely agree. You're merely proving my point.

 

[chiefdave]

What is getting me are the claims on here that Labour will be competent when there is no evidence to support that. People will then point to the last Labour government, ignoring things like dodgy dossiers, sale of gold reserves, ruination of private pensions, foreign military adventures. Those people will “pick out things” they dId right from years agoas evidence they would succeed when in power again.

What evidence would you find acceptable? You're talking about a party that haven't been in power for over a decade. And when they were in power by most metrics we were in a better place than we are now.

You're complaining people are picking things out as examples of things they did well but aren't you doing exactly the same with things you don't think they did well?

If you won't accept successes from when they were last in power then what evidence are you expecting people to supply?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Their GP contract wasn’t all that helpful either, not requiring out of hours cover. Never mind though, Labour were competent - it’s just silly of us to be sick out of office hours.

The Tories have had 14 years to turn it around but haven't. In fact they've reduced the number of GPs to provide in-hours cover.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Sadly, both Labour and the Tories for some are obsessed with creating markets for parts of the NHS, and GP Out of Hours is no exception. GP practices generally opt-out of providing OOH (unsurprisingly as the funding available for it is poor) so you get private companies employing locums providing it.

 

[MalcSB]

But we do have evidence Farage is?

You’re all over the place. You’ve got a chip on your shoulder about Labour, fair enough, but your criticisms could be levelled at any party.

I would, but no one on here is claiming anyone but Labour is competent.

 

[MalcSB]

This whole “Labour will use their super majority to rig the voting system to be a forever government” line from the Tories is getting a bit ridiculous now. They’re just adding more and more groups to the list of who they’ll allow to vote on a daily basis. I reckon we’re about 2 days away from the Tories claiming that people will be allowed to do a proxy vote for their pet dogs and about 4 days from them claiming that Labour will allow foreign dogs like Great Danes and Afghan Hounds to vote too. If they want to know while they’ll get trounced it’s shit like this, they’re not a serious party anymore.

We will know soon enough. IF the tories are correct itwill be too late by then of course.

 

[MalcSB]

It's not like the Tories have had 14 years to put all these things right, is it? What's your excuse for that?

They aren’t competent either.

 

[MalcSB]

What evidence would you find acceptable? You're talking about a party that haven't been in power for over a decade. And when they were in power by most metrics we were in a better place than we are now.

You're complaining people are picking things out as examples of things they did well but aren't you doing exactly the same with things you don't think they did well?

If you won't accept successes from when they were last in power then what evidence are you expecting people to supply?

That’s the point, there is no evidence so stop making the claim.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

No one cares about the debates man, more people watched Springwatch.

Wasn't keen on the raptor devouring one of its own young mind you.

(For clarity that was on Springwatch, not in a debate)

 

[chiefdave]

That’s the point, there is no evidence so stop making the claim.

So whats your answer then, nobody vote for anyone as there is no proof of what they will be able to achieve in the future?

 

[PVA]

Frankly it's a disgrace that Labour haven't done anything tangible to fix the country in the last 14 years.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

That’s the point, there is no evidence so stop making the claim.

What do ladt labour government do wrong based on your circumstanced principles?
I judged them on this which Tories have an utterly abysmal record on... and whilst not perfectly infinitely better than the sack of greedy racist srlfish Tories that's we have now....
NHS
Schools investment
Local Government
Small businesses
Environment/climate change
Affordable housing provision
Corporate tax evasion
Illegal immigration/exploitation by big business on black market.
Investment in arts, sport, culture.
Training for youth.
Poverty/homelessness.
Universities/higher education.
European market and relationships with our neighbours.
Human rights.
Mistrust of Trump, Putin, KJS and Israeli Government actions.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Public services were undeniably in a better state under the last Labour government than now. Don't expect instant fixes going forward (the same as the Tories ludicrously scrapping student nurses bursaries still has a consequence even though they were reinstated later) but to claim otherwise is surely nonsense.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Take Covid out, excuse them 2022 if you like as a result, enjoy the difference.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Trends, always helpful to see why some things are a mess and need more cash.

 

[PVA]

If we're doing charts then this one alone should be enough to never see the Tories in government ever again

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Suppose we see a bit of a bump in recent years, but nowhere near when they got in.

 

[MalcSB]

So whats your answer then, nobody vote for anyone as there is no proof of what they will be able to achieve in the future?

Vote for who you want to, just don’t say they will be competetent. Say you hope they will be competent.

 

[skybluetony176]

Vote for who you want to, just don’t say they will be competetent. Say you hope they will be competent.

Can we at least agree that the chances of them being less competent than the outgoing government are slim to zero?

 

[Philosoraptor]

Mordaunt being touted as the next PM because of the way she carried a sword summed up what a ludicrous shit hole this country has become.

Reading the Telegraph article its getting to sound four horseman of the apocolypse stuff for the Tories.

I've always had a theory why the Tories get to be in power more times than Labour. They get rid of the old guard so quickly and start again. If you leave policy aside, you can see they just renew themselves quicker.

 

[Sick Boy]

Reading the Telegraph article its getting to sound four horseman of the apocolypse stuff for the Tories.

I've always had a theory why the Tories get to be in power more times than Labour. They get rid of the old guard so quickly and start again. If you leave policy aside, you can see they just renew themselves quicker.

They’re also very good at distancing themselves from previous leaders, PMs, governments etc to the point where people buy it.

 

[Philosoraptor]

They’re also very good at distancing themselves from previous leaders, PMs, governments etc to the point where people buy it.

I agree with that.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Politics is in a sorry state of affairs all round...

There is no counterbalance from the march to the right over the last 20 or so years.

 

[shmmeee]

 

[PVA]

Bloody hell

 

[clint van damme]

Bloody hell

Michelle Mone is on it.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

It won’t happen this election with Reform; there’s more potential if the takes over the Tories. The country sleepwalked into Brexit and it could easily do the same.

And the US elected Trump and LePen might win in France and the far right did well in the recent EU elections.

 

[Philosoraptor]

i know you’ve been waiting

​ ​ ​ Day 7: The Media​ Click here to listen to an audio recording of this reflection.​ Exodus 20.1-16 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.’ ​ Truth matters. We want to be assured that the media can be trusted as they, literally, mediate news and events for us. Trust is often in short supply. And many people now get their news and comment via social media, where the algorithms tend to serve up more of what we like rather than providing a balance of perspectives. In this fast-changing digital world, it’s more important than ever that we become ‘media literate’ – understanding that what is reported is never neutral and is always partial. So, this means that we must love the truth, honour one another, and spot what is happening when individuals are misrepresented in any media. It is vital to afford those whose views are opposed to mine the same respect I would expect from them. And this means speaking or writing what we know to be accurate - and not indulging in condemning or vilifying people who sometimes cannot defend themselves. As we pray today that our public media (online, broadcast and print) might become more truthful and more worthy of trust, let’s reflect, too, on our own role as consumers of such media, and commit ourselves to telling the truth about – and loving – our neighbour.​ Give wisdom, courage and insight into the media defend us from deception; and help us all to engage with truth and kindness. Hear us, good Lord.

Good to see someone else touched by his noodly appendage.



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Also, not a chart from me...

 

[Philosoraptor]

Housing: Parties battle over help for first-time buyers and renters

Labour and the Tories accuse each other of failing to match promises on housing, a key election issue.

www.bbc.co.uk

This really grinds my gears.

The emphasis should not be to help people get onto the ladder but making it harder for people buying up and keeping multiple rungs on the ladder.

Helping people to get onto the ladder just keeps property values at a high level.

High taxes on owning multiple residence over a certain time period will free up property which should make things more affordable for everyone.

 

[wingy]

Housing: Parties battle over help for first-time buyers and renters

Labour and the Tories accuse each other of failing to match promises on housing, a key election issue.

www.bbc.co.uk

This really grinds my gears.

The emphasis should not be to help people get onto the ladder but making it harder for people buying up and keeping multiple rungs on the ladder.

Helping people to get onto the ladder just keeps property values at a high level.

High taxes on owning multiple residence over a certain time period will free up property which should make things more affordable for everyone.

Another subsidy!

 

[SBAndy]

Housing: Parties battle over help for first-time buyers and renters

Labour and the Tories accuse each other of failing to match promises on housing, a key election issue.

www.bbc.co.uk

This really grinds my gears.

The emphasis should not be to help people get onto the ladder but making it harder for people buying up and keeping multiple rungs on the ladder.

Helping people to get onto the ladder just keeps property values at a high level.

High taxes on owning multiple residence over a certain time period will free up property which should make things more affordable for everyone.

The issue being so much of our economy is underpinned by house prices.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The help for renters is good but is really tinkering around the edges. Get some council houses built.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The help for renters is good but is really tinkering around the edges. Get some council houses built.

Don't disagree with that. And in communities that have ended up with their council stock vanishing through right to buy would be handy as well - Ghettos can be middle class too!

 

[MalcSB]

How’s this for a manifesto