Do you want to discuss boring politics? (109 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Is it safe or is it a deterrent? Either it's so abhorrent that it will prevent desperate people coming here or it's not in which case where's the deterrent.

There is no logic behind this policy which has cost £350 million just in fees and much more in reality. It's all been about pushing a divisive anti foreigner rhetoric in a desperate attempt by the Tories to cover up their pitiful record in power.

There is no logic but Starmer himself has not ruled out a 3rd country option and Blair was looking an internment centres on isolated Scottish Islands.

Its not that bad in France so why they are so desperate I am not sure

 

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[wingy]

There is no logic but Starmer himself has not ruled out a 3rd country option and Blair was looking an internment centres on isolated Scottish Islands.

Its not that bad in France so why they are so desperate I am not sure

Tax, for helping to clear out some of their unemployment numbers down?
Just realised that doesn't sound as clear as intended I'm probably referring to twenty years back, not sure of numbers!!

Interesting point though where were they coming from back then?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Rwanda is not 3rd party processing though? People would not be sent to Rwanda to be processed and then if accepted allowed into the UK as per the 3rd party processing schemes you mention. They would then stay in Rwanda.

The UK doesn't have a land border with the ROI? Ok you may want to check that one out.

Yes, that’s precisely what it is. The technical term is ‘offshore processing’ and both the USA and Australia have such systems. It’s a deterrent against people illegally entering the country whilst their asylum is processed. Of course it is harder to remove someone who’s asylum application has been rejected if they’re already in the country. Hence, a lot of countries seem to be interested in following the UK’s lead.

To be clear, the NI-ROI land border isn’t policed and internally, there’s not supposed to be tight border controls between GB and NI.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

We haven’t vacillated over whether Rwanda is a safe country. It was deemed not to be safe and the issue was whether or not to break international law. The Government decided in the end to do so.

And yes so called ghetto laws woukd be far right and racist.

Denmark is a far right and racist country? Interesting take, not sure many would agree with you on that.

 

[skybluetony176]

The NI-ROI border isn’t policed and there is freedom of movement between that border. Hence ROI complaining migrants were crossing into Ireland via NI. Ironically, citing the Rwanda policy as the reason for this.

As for France, I’m sure it’s been considered but a) France would need to agree to it (they wouldn’t) and b) how would stop channel crossings if they’re coming from France in the first place?

It amuses me that you’ve more or less echoed Farage’s policy of sending illegal immigrants via the channel back to France.

I think France offered it as a solution, we turned it down. Even if not we have a half empty consulate in Calais, IIRC consulates have the same protections as embassy’s in that they’re classed as the sovereign territory of said country not the host country. So we could do processing there.

It would stop the small boat crossings because once processed we would give them safe passage by a conventional route. You would also then have the legitimate argument should Any small boats still come that those on board are 100% illegal rather than someone who on paper we’ve offered asylum to such Afghanistans who worked for the British government but not offered them a legitimate route to the UK.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes, that’s precisely what it is. The technical term is ‘offshore processing’ and both the USA and Australia have such systems. It’s a deterrent against people illegally entering the country whilst their asylum is processed. Of course it is harder to remove someone who’s asylum application has been rejected if they’re already in the country. Hence, a lot of countries seem to be interested in following the UK’s lead.

To be clear, the NI-ROI land border isn’t policed and internally, there’s not supposed to be tight border controls between GB and NI.

Hasn’t worked in either of those countries though. Australia started in 2012. 12 years later they still have the same issues.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

He’s thinking of his pre-1922 textbook there

Smart-arse.

Post-Brexit, the border is literally in the Irish Sea because there was this little known thing called The Troubles that happened when there were policed border posts on the island of Ireland.

The Good Friday Agreement outlined the need to avoid a ‘hard’ border. In practice, the only ‘border’ between NI and ROI is on a map and there is no physical border to speak of.

I’m guessing not many people have been to NI to understand what I meant.

 

[MalcSB]

Is it safe or is it a deterrent? Either it's so abhorrent that it will prevent desperate people coming here or it's not in which case where's the deterrent.

There is no logic behind this policy which has cost £350 million just in fees and much more in reality. It's all been about pushing a divisive anti foreigner rhetoric in a desperate attempt by the Tories to cover up their pitiful record in power.

Come off it, Rwanda is not abhorrent. What it is is not the UK.

Why do so many people seem to want to come to the UK? Benefits system? Free housing? Free health services?

That will be another question you won‘t answer.

 

[MalcSB]

I am guessing most of them come from a country that has been ravaged by civil war. Not from a G7 country.

First Congo War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Second Congo War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Democratic Republic of the Congo–Rwanda tensions (2022–present) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But these illegals immigrants didn’t originate from a G7 country, and will have passed through several before getting to the UK.

Not really answering the question,

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Denmark is a far right and racist country? Interesting take, not sure many would agree with you on that.

Having a policy that determines where you can live is based on your race is racist. Saying if you are dark skinned you can’t live somewhere but someone who is white can, is blatantly racist.

Can't see how anyone can disagree.

 

[David O'Day]

Yes, that’s precisely what it is. The technical term is ‘offshore processing’ and both the USA and Australia have such systems. It’s a deterrent against people illegally entering the country whilst their asylum is processed. Of course it is harder to remove someone who’s asylum application has been rejected if they’re already in the country. Hence, a lot of countries seem to be interested in following the UK’s lead.

To be clear, the NI-ROI land border isn’t policed and internally, there’s not supposed to be tight border controls between GB and NI.

ok mate, if you want to be wrong then that's your call

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Come off it, Rwanda is not abhorrent. What it is is not the UK.

Why do so many people seem to want to come to the UK? Benefits system? Free housing? Free health services?

That will be another question you won‘t answer.

Fleeing persecution from the Taliban for example, because we left them in the lurch because if our botched withdrawal.

Not sure I have failed to answer any of your questions. BTW I don't think you or Mad Mucca Boy have explained how we staff the NHS with doctors and nurses without immigrants or the social care service. If the answer is train more UK born people what will you do in the intervening 10+ years?

 

[Deleted member 9744]

There is no logic but Starmer himself has not ruled out a 3rd country option and Blair was looking an internment centres on isolated Scottish Islands.

Its not that bad in France so why they are so desperate I am not sure

You seem to think I agree with Starmer on everything. He'll obviously be better than what we have endured for the last 14 years but I don't agree with a lot of what he says.

 

[fatso]

Having a policy that determines where you can live is based on your race is racist. Saying if you are dark skinned you can’t live somewhere but someone who is white can, is blatantly racist.

Can't see how anyone can disagree.

There are plenty of white immigrants that aren't allowed to settle here.
You just appear hell bent on making it a racist topic.

 

[fatso]

He'll obviously be better than what we have endured for the last 14 years

I absolutely doubt that.

Time will tell, and although this government may of been shit, if you think for 1 minute that Labour is the answer, I think you'll be in for a shock.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

There are plenty of white immigrants that aren't allowed to settle here.
You just appear hell bent on making it a racist topic.

We're talking about a policy in Denmark to stop immigrants settling in an area to stop the creation of so called ghettos.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think France offered it as a solution, we turned it down. Even if not we have a half empty consulate in Calais, IIRC consulates have the same protections as embassy’s in that they’re classed as the sovereign territory of said country not the host country. So we could do processing there.

It would stop the small boat crossings because once processed we would give them safe passage by a conventional route. You would also then have the legitimate argument should Any small boats still come that those on board are 100% illegal rather than someone who on paper we’ve offered asylum to such Afghanistans who worked for the British government but not offered them a legitimate route to the UK.

Are you sure?

Besides, how has Anglo-Franco cooperation got us so far? We’ve agreed a £500m (3 years) deal for detention centres and border officers in France. Given that I’d approx double the money we currently give the French government, I’m sceptical it’ll resolve the issue of small boat crossings.

Fleeing persecution from the Taliban for example, because we left them in the lurch because if our botched withdrawal.

Not sure I have failed to answer any of your questions. BTW I don't think you or Mad Mucca Boy have explained how we staff the NHS with doctors and nurses without immigrants or the social care service. If the answer is train more UK born people what will you do in the intervening 10+ years?

Ah yes, because the people crossing on small boats are all doctors and nurses waiting to join the NHS workforce…

The topic of convo is not on NHS staff, no one has said to stop critical workers in any industry from migrating to the UK. Yet, there clearly is abuse of the system. In 2022 there was something around 145k (+ 205k dependents) visas granted for social and healthcare workers and not all of these people worked in that sector. Which is non-compliant with the terms of entry. As a principle, that isn’t right.

 

[fatso]

We're talking about a policy in Denmark to stop immigrants settling in an area to stop the creation of so called ghettos.

Maybe they wish to protect their culture, infrastructure, economy and national identity

What bastards!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

We're talking about a policy in Denmark to stop immigrants settling in an area to stop the creation of so called ghettos.

You haven’t even looked into the policy…

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Smart-arse.

Post-Brexit, the border is literally in the Irish Sea because there was this little known thing called The Troubles that happened when there were policed border posts on the island of Ireland.

The Good Friday Agreement outlined the need to avoid a ‘hard’ border. In practice, the only ‘border’ between NI and ROI is on a map and there is no physical border to speak of.

I’m guessing not many people have been to NI to understand what I meant.

I have been and Tony who you were replying to is from there.

 

[fatso]

Fleeing persecution from the Taliban for example, because we left them in the lurch because if our botched withdrawal.

Not sure I have failed to answer any of your questions. BTW I don't think you or Mad Mucca Boy have explained how we staff the NHS with doctors and nurses without immigrants or the social care service. If the answer is train more UK born people what will you do in the intervening 10+ years?

How many doctors and nurses are ariving on the illegal migrant boats?

 

[PVA]

Come off it, Rwanda is not abhorrent.

Sounds wonderful


“Significant human rights issues included credible reports of: unlawful or arbitrary killings; torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by the government; harsh and lifethreatening prison conditions; arbitrary detention; political prisoners or detainees; transnational repression against individuals located outside the country, including killings, kidnappings, and violence; arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy; serious restrictions on free expression and media, including threats of violence against journalists, unjustified arrests or prosecutions of journalists"

"Although Rwanda is a party to the UN Convention against Torture, unlawful detention and torture are rampant, particularly in unofficial detention facilities known as ‘safe houses.’ Human Rights Watch regularly receives credible information from former prisoners about torture and ill treatment in Rwandan prisons, including Nyarugenge (Mageragere) prison in Kigali, where some have said they are being held in isolation and beaten."

 

[PVA]

I reckon reform are gonna surprise a few. Also just to add I work at a posh private school and they ran a mock election for all the staff and students there and the results there was a surprising win for reform which didn't go down to well with the teachers lol

I saw a poll of young people and amongst young males (I think it was 18-24) Reform was polling around 60%!

It was a very small sample size though, probably smaller than your school poll!

Apparently it's something to do with TikTok where pro Reform stuff is apparently rife.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I saw a poll of young people and amongst young males (I think it was 18-24) Reform was polling around 60%!

It was a very small sample size though, probably smaller than your school poll!

Apparently it's something to do with TikTok where pro Reform stuff is apparently rife.

Certainly is. Following on from the success of Andrew Tate in trying to brainwash that demographic.

 

[wingy]

Tbf when I predicted a malign influence potentially causing trouble for ROI after Brexit I was expecting a more russian type operation, maybe indirectly?

 

[David O'Day]

I reckon reform are gonna surprise a few. Also just to add I work at a posh private school and they ran a mock election for all the staff and students there and the results there was a surprising win for reform which didn't go down to well with the teachers lol

They may win a few seats, most of them will be at the expense of the tory party.

 

[skybluetony176]

Are you sure?

Besides, how has Anglo-Franco cooperation got us so far? We’ve agreed a £500m (3 years) deal for detention centres and border officers in France. Given that I’d approx double the money we currently give the French government, I’m sceptical it’ll resolve the issue of small boat crossings.



Ah yes, because the people crossing on small boats are all doctors and nurses waiting to join the NHS workforce…

The topic of convo is not on NHS staff, no one has said to stop critical workers in any industry from migrating to the UK. Yet, there clearly is abuse of the system. In 2022 there was something around 145k (+ 205k dependents) visas granted for social and healthcare workers and not all of these people worked in that sector. Which is non-compliant with the terms of entry. As a principle, that isn’t right.

Pretty sure Labour has taking up that invitation in its manifesto.

The problem with an Anglo French solution thus far the government has treated more like exporting the issue rather than dealing with an issue. It clearly needs a multi nation consensus and solution on how to deal with it.

 

[David O'Day]

I saw a poll of young people and amongst young males (I think it was 18-24) Reform was polling around 60%!

It was a very small sample size though, probably smaller than your school poll!

Apparently it's something to do with TikTok where pro Reform stuff is apparently rife.

Where was that as every poll by the main polling companies puts Labour well in the lead with every age range that doesn't qualify for a pension.

 

[clint van damme]

That's me done, ballot paper spoilt, with what, even if I say so myself, was a text book cock and bollocks.
Was going to add a traditional couple of drops of spunk firing out but thought it might seem a bit childish.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Ah yes, because the people crossing on small boats are all doctors and nurses waiting to join the NHS workforce…

a) It's impossible to be an illegal asylum seeker
b) The majority of asylum claims are granted
c) It's not the people fleeing persecution's fault if others aren't
d) given you asked. About 1,200 medically qualified refugees are recorded on the British Medical Association’s database. It is estimated that it costs around £25,000 to support a refugee doctor to practise in the UK. Training a new doctor is estimated to cost between £200,000 and £250,000

 

[fatso]

Sounds wonderful


“Significant human rights issues included credible reports of: unlawful or arbitrary killings; torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by the government; harsh and lifethreatening prison conditions; arbitrary detention; political prisoners or detainees; transnational repression against individuals located outside the country, including killings, kidnappings, and violence; arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy; serious restrictions on free expression and media, including threats of violence against journalists, unjustified arrests or prosecutions of journalists"

"Although Rwanda is a party to the UN Convention against Torture, unlawful detention and torture are rampant, particularly in unofficial detention facilities known as ‘safe houses.’ Human Rights Watch regularly receives credible information from former prisoners about torture and ill treatment in Rwandan prisons, including Nyarugenge (Mageragere) prison in Kigali, where some have said they are being held in isolation and beaten."

Wow, almost sounds like a deterant!

 

[Liquid Gold]

And voting?

cheeky bugger

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's me done, ballot paper spoilt, with what, even if I say so myself, was a text book cock and bollocks.
Was going to add a traditional couple of drops of spunk firing out but thought it might seem a bit childish.

At school a teacher forgot our lesson so someone drew an epic, board sized creation called the ‘shuttle cock’, where each sperm was an escape pod and the bollocks were a launch pad.

The Mona Lisa of all cock drawings.

 

[Nick]

Fleeing persecution from the Taliban for example, because we left them in the lurch because if our botched withdrawal.

Not sure I have failed to answer any of your questions. BTW I don't think you or Mad Mucca Boy have explained how we staff the NHS with doctors and nurses without immigrants or the social care service. If the answer is train more UK born people what will you do in the intervening 10+ years?

This is again where the whole immigration thing is about the context. Just saying doctors and nurses and Taliban is a weak argument as it depends what type of immigrant.

That's no taliban in Albania, for example.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Wow, almost sounds like a deterant!

And illegal