Do you want to discuss boring politics? (254 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

tbf it looks like it's not her fault (and it's not often you can say that about her!)

No, but the amount of votes involved along with the issues with the reform candidate CDs mentioned above, could be enough to oust her

 

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[chiefdave]

There's a reason why me, you and everyone else on here isn't in prison, it's because we have a moral compass that keeps us on the (relatively) straight and narrow, regardless of the trauma life has thrown at us.
We haven't needed the state to step in and make our problems easier so we don't break the law.

Take the well publicised tragic case of the young boy who's life was taken in Cov recently by the hit and run driver, what could the government do to stop the absolute scum bag driver from being so wilfully crazy behind the wheel.

Under the new proposals, when he's caught and convicted, he could find himself only serving 25% of his sentence.

I fear the new government will care far more for the feelings of the perpetrators than the victims.

And this isn't a political dig at Labour, as the prisons don't appear to have improved any over the last 14 years under the Tory party.

There's a wealth of evidence that supports socio-economic factors having a big influence on crime. Not sure why anyone would choose to just ignore that and continue on with the same system we've had for years which clearly isn't working.

Think with these discussions it's advisable to avoid individual cases. No matter what would do there will still be evil people who do horrific things, and for those people the punishment should be severe. I haven't seen anything proposed by Labour where child killers would have their sentences reduced by 75% Think its far more likely that the efforts to rehabilitate and get people out of prison will be concentrated at lower level criminals.

 

[skybluetony176]

Looks like Badenoch could be in trouble.
some issue relating to postal votes in her constituency. Could be a rerun.

What’s that all about? Haven’t seen anything. Coincidentally an online political commentator was predicting this a week ago and saying it might stop her running for leadership of the Tories simply because she won’t be available for the election. I dismissed it as wishful thinking but maybe he had some inside knowledge.

 

[MalcSB]

That would be completely unfair. Is there a modern precedent, or even any precedent?

wasn't there an issue with the Reform candidate and they stop campaigning as it was too late to replace them? A rerun with a new reform candidate and Labour campaigning hard and she could be in trouble

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That would be completely unfair. Is there a modern precedent, or even any precedent?

That's not why it would be re-run though. Over 2,500 people didn't actually get their postal vote forms so were denied the chance to vote.

 

[MalcSB]

That's not why it would be re-run though. Over 2,500 people didn't actually get their postal vote forms so were denied the chance to vote.

I said it would be unfair.

She won by 2,610 votes, which sounds like more than the number of postal ballots which the council “forgot” to send out. Perhaps give those whose postal ballots weren’t issued the chance to vote but not a full rerun. And sack the officials who cocked this up.

PS One seat less for Tories will make no difference, so my stance is t a “party political“ one.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Too funny.

 

[SBAndy]

That's not why it would be re-run though. Over 2,500 people didn't actually get their postal vote forms so were denied the chance to vote.

Tricky one. Will depend on the exact number of voters affected as the winning margin was 2610. If it’s fewer than that then, to be honest, can they not just retrospectively vote as it won’t impact the end result.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I said it would be unfair.

She won by 2,610 votes, which sounds like more than the number of postal ballots which the council “forgot” to send out. Perhaps give those whose postal ballots weren’t issued the chance to vote but not a full rerun. And sack the officials who cocked this up.

It's about the same as the postal votes... which will end up being the argument isn't it, whether the result is tight enough to merit it. I mean, they haven't even said they're re-running it!

can they not just retrospectively vote as it won’t impact the end result.

Zero point in that, isn't there! Plus some might choose to, say, vote for the Labour candidate whereas they may have voted Tory at the time, to make the point that they were disenfranchised. And then you end up distorting the result.

 

[Sick Boy]

I mentioned before that the younger generations seem to lean more to the right.

 

[MalcSB]

I mentioned before that the younger generations seem to lean more to the right.

The tik tok bots will be busy.

 

[MalcSB]

It's about the same as the postal votes... which will end up being the argument isn't it, whether the result is tight enough to merit it. I mean, they haven't even said they're re-running it!


Zero point in that, isn't there! Plus some might choose to, say, vote for the Labour candidate whereas they may have voted Tory at the time, to make the point that they were disenfranchised. And then you end up distorting the result.

Letting the disenfranchised postal voters vote wouldn’t have the potential to distort the result as much as a complete rerun would.

 

[Otis]

Looks like Badenoch could be in trouble.
some issue relating to postal votes in her constituency. Could be a rerun.

I don't mind her to be honest. At least she chose a surname criticising that most outspoken of former Tory MP's, Enoch Powell.

Bad Enoch indeed.

 

[Sick Boy]

The tik tok bots will be busy.

I don’t think it’s just a result of TikTok but a wider shift to the right.

 

[MalcSB]

I don’t think it’s just a result of TikTok but a wider shift to the right.

She did say that TikTok had had an influence but Im sure you are correct.

Whilst my comment was to a certain extent tongue in cheek, If the vote is given to impressionable children social media manipulation will be rife. Got 5 years to get into current 11 year olds brains if that really is the route Starmer wants to go down.

There was also some talk about giving EU nationals the vote, that may not play out as expected either.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

There's a reason why me, you and everyone else on here isn't in prison, it's because we have a moral compass that keeps us on the (relatively) straight and narrow, regardless of the trauma life has thrown at us.
We haven't needed the state to step in and make our problems easier so we don't break the law.

Take the well publicised tragic case of the young boy who's life was taken in Cov recently by the hit and run driver, what could the government do to stop the absolute scum bag driver from being so wilfully crazy behind the wheel.

Under the new proposals, when he's caught and convicted, he could find himself only serving 25% of his sentence.

I fear the new government will care far more for the feelings of the perpetrators than the victims.

And this isn't a political dig at Labour, as the prisons don't appear to have improved any over the last 14 years under the Tory party.

He will fall under the 30000 number in prison who need to be there
If he is Latvian expect him to be sent back as part of the agreements we have with them

Mr Timpson doesn’t think prison isn’t part of the solution it’s just not a solution for under 6’months or pretty much any woman. Obviously Lucy letby would be expected to be sentenced

 

[Sick Boy]

There was also some talk about giving EU nationals the vote, that may not play out as expected either.

If you're suggesting they'd be more inclined on the whole to vote for Reform and parties to the right, I'd disagree.

 

[fatso]

He will fall under the 30000 number in prison who need to be there
If he is Latvian expect him to be sent back as part of the agreements we have with them

Mr Timpson doesn’t think prison isn’t part of the solution it’s just not a solution for under 6’months or pretty much any woman. Obviously Lucy letby would be expected to be sentenced

Surely Mr Timpson isnt suggesting that a woman can't do time but a man can for the same offence?

That's not going to go down well in 2024
And what if the "man" identifies as a "woman"

 

[Sick Boy]

Surely Mr Timpson isnt suggesting that a woman can't do time but a man can for the same offence?

That's not going to go down well in 2024
And what if the "man" identifies as a "woman"

That’s two posts within 24 hours; you seem quite obsessed with trans people.

 

[fatso]

That’s two posts within 24 hours; you seem quite obsessed with trans people.

How many are you allowed in a 24 hour period then?

 

[Sick Boy]

How many are you allowed in a 24 hour period then?

As many as you like

 

[fatso]

As many as you like

Thanks



Sweetheart

 

[shmmeee]

I don’t think it’s just a result of TikTok but a wider shift to the right.

In this country it’s almost all memes. We’ve generally not had the shift to the right Europe has.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Curious that this was missing from the manifesto

Was it supposed to be policy? Is that what Remain would like to do, or what those who voted Remain would like to see?

 

[MalcSB]

Was it supposed to be policy? Is that what Remain would like to do, or what those who voted Remain would like to see?

The latter.

 

[chiefdave]

Tricky one. Will depend on the exact number of voters affected as the winning margin was 2610. If it’s fewer than that then, to be honest, can they not just retrospectively vote as it won’t impact the end result.

You can definitely retrospectively vote. I forgot to sign my postal vote once and had a letter after the election asking me to sign the form as until I did so my vote could not be counted. At this point we were days after the election so I'm guessing at some point down the line every constituency has a final audited figure.

So the question becomes what is the threshold for running the whole thing again. Is it as simple as even if every missing vote was for candidate x it wouldn't change the result so why bother?

 

[Sick Boy]

In this country it’s almost all memes. We’ve generally not had the shift to the right Europe has.

The country has definitely lurched to the right though. The Rwanda scheme would have been the stuff of dreams for Meloni!

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

In this country it’s almost all memes. We’ve generally not had the shift to the right Europe has.

It's pretty clear that the centre right government we had has been rejected by everyone for their incompetence by most of the electorate, and they've voted in the next biggest party tactically. It's nothing to do with bucking trends.

It might confuse those unfamiliar to European politics, but for someone who spends 23 hours a day on the politics thread, surely you are not that naive.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Surely Mr Timpson isnt suggesting that a woman can't do time but a man can for the same offence?

That's not going to go down well in 2024
And what if the "man" identifies as a "woman"

No he’s not
But he is saying that prison for women is disastrous pretty much on every measure

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I don't mind her to be honest. At least she chose a surname criticising that most outspoken of former Tory MP's, Enoch Powell.

Bad Enoch indeed.

I thought it was more a comment on her political position. Enoch but worse.

 

[skybluetony176]

It's pretty clear that the centre right government we had has been rejected by everyone for their incompetence by most of the electorate, and they've voted in the next biggest party tactically. It's nothing to do with bucking trends.

It might confuse those unfamiliar to European politics, but for someone who spends 23 hours a day on the politics thread, surely you are not that naive.

Centre right. Good one. Classic.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It’s been doing it to the Lib Dem’s and Greens for ages, not to mention the SDP. It’s literally the point of the system: keep the fringes on the fringe and force moderation.

Also people are calling for PR, the system that in NL just gave Geert Wilders power on 23% of the vote.

In a four or five party system 34% is the sort of vote that gives you power in any system. Are people really saying the want the Lib Dem’s or Reform as permanent king makers? And that would be more democratic?

For me I don't think I'd want the entire thing to be PR, but at the same time I think it needs to be reflected somewhere in the govt. I'm no fan of transferable voting as it just seems everyone ends up with someone they didn't really want. Hence why I like FPTP for constituency MP's and PR for a second house.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Centre right. Goof one. Classic.

Back in the real world.

What would you call them then?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Exactly. It's easier to let convicted criminals out than to come up with a solution to the overcrowded prisons.

Why not just build more prisons? And invest in rehabilitation to cut down on re-offending rather than locking people up for 23 hours a day.

Because prisons aren't shown to be much of a deterrent and leads to a high percentage of reoffending. In some cases prisons are basically seen as criminal gang recruitment centres.

People who get drawn further and further into that world for what started out as minor offences. Things like drugs, swift changes in circumstances (especially economic like job loss), family/socio-economic problems. People that can be helped but end up in a much worse position because they've been sent to prison.

Meanwhile other countries in Scandinavia concentrate almost wholly on rehabilitation with a tiny prison population and all the indicators are that it's far more successful. In fact they say the biggest problem is people like you moaning why criminals aren't being punished.

For me prison should be there purely for those who pose a physical threat to people, and would happily say for some of them to even be considered for release after extensive rehabilitation they have to wear a tag for the rest of their lives.

So ask yourself are you interesting in solving the amount of crime and the reasons for it, or just punishment?

 

[skybluetony176]

Back in the real world.

What would you call them then?

You mean aside from a bunch of cunts?

Whatever they are you’re ridiculous if you think that they were centre right.