Do you want to discuss boring politics? (159 Viewers)

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

You mean aside from a bunch of cunts?

Whatever they are you’re ridiculous if you think that they were centre right.

Most of us think they're a bunch of cunts. Still, doesn't answer my question. If they aren't centre right, what are they?

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

Because prisons aren't shown to be much of a deterrent and leads to a high percentage of reoffending. In some cases prisons are basically seen as criminal gang recruitment centres.

People who get drawn further and further into that world for what started out as minor offences. Things like drugs, swift changes in circumstances (especially economic like job loss), family/socio-economic problems. People that can be helped but end up in a much worse position because they've been sent to prison.

Meanwhile other countries in Scandinavia concentrate almost wholly on rehabilitation with a tiny prison population and all the indicators are that it's far more successful. In fact they say the biggest problem is people like you moaning why criminals aren't being punished.

For me prison should be there purely for those who pose a physical threat to people, and would happily say for some of them to even be considered for release after extensive rehabilitation they have to wear a tag for the rest of their lives.

So ask yourself are you interesting in solving the amount of crime and the reasons for it, or just punishment?

That’s what me Timpson is saying

 

[SBAndy]

Well, exit polls suggesting the National Rally in France now languishing in 3rd place after the 2nd round of voting.

 

[chiefdave]

Well, exit polls suggesting the National Rally in France now languishing in 3rd place after the 2nd round of voting.

not really been following this past the headlines as there was so much going on here. is this a case where the far right voters vote far right but as you move through the process nobody else has them as their second ballot?

 

[David O'Day]

That exit poll/projection can't be right? The left winning and the fash in 3rd?

 

[skybluetony176]

Most of us think they're a bunch of cunts. Still, doesn't answer my question. If they aren't centre right, what are they?

You see this is what they do. They shift the line so that can claim to not be far right implicating that they must be centre right while claiming moronic things like the current Labour Party is the furthest left Labour Party in modern history when it’s centre left at best and not even the furthest left Labour Party of the last 5 years.


We’re back to the territory of just because they (the Tories) think you’re stupid doesn’t mean you have to indulge them.

 

[Sick Boy]

That exit poll/projection can't be right? The left winning and the fash in 3rd?

I’d presume people holding their noses to keep them out.

 

[David O'Day]

I’d presume people holding their noses to keep them out.

Yeah but you'd think they'd vote Macrons centrists and not the left alliance

 

[MalcSB]

Well, exit polls suggesting the National Rally in France now languishing in 3rd place after the 2nd round of voting.

Have still probably increased their seats. Was 8 in 2017, 89 in 2022, predicted 125 to 150 in 2024.

 

[MalcSB]

Yeah but you'd think they'd vote Macrons centrists and not the left alliance

I think the French hate Macron and his party as much as you hate Tories.

 

[PVA]

That can't be right, I thought the right were now the most popular party and Le Pen was going to be president

It's almost as though this has happened before.

 

[David O'Day]

That can't be right, I thought the right were now the most popular party and Le Pen was going to be president

It's almost as though this has happened before.

Almost like most French people aren't actually Le Pen supporters and will vote to keep her and her party out.

 

[torchomatic]

I’d presume people holding their noses to keep them out.

Exactly this. A load of candidates withdrew so as not to dilute the vote. A lot of people also voted for Macron just to keep Le Pen out. Thank goodness.

 

[David O'Day]

I think the French hate Macron and his party as much as you hate Tories.

they still appear to have come 2nd

 

[fatso]

Because prisons aren't shown to be much of a deterrent and leads to a high percentage of reoffending. In some cases prisons are basically seen as criminal gang recruitment centres.

People who get drawn further and further into that world for what started out as minor offences. Things like drugs, swift changes in circumstances (especially economic like job loss), family/socio-economic problems. People that can be helped but end up in a much worse position because they've been sent to prison.

Meanwhile other countries in Scandinavia concentrate almost wholly on rehabilitation with a tiny prison population and all the indicators are that it's far more successful. In fact they say the biggest problem is people like you moaning why criminals aren't being punished.

For me prison should be there purely for those who pose a physical threat to people, and would happily say for some of them to even be considered for release after extensive rehabilitation they have to wear a tag for the rest of their lives.

So ask yourself are you interesting in solving the amount of crime and the reasons for it, or just punishment?

The problem is without any deterant there's no reason not to commit crime.
Rehab although a crucial part in preventing re offending isn't the only solution.
We've had rehab for donkeys years without stopping reoffending. Go and ask any shop owners if shoplifting has increased or decreased since police stopped bothering with it.
Weak ass woolly do gooders like you would see a massive rise in crime once the punishment was reduced.
So in short punishment AND rehab is the way to go imo.

 

[robbiekeane]

You see this is what they do. They shift the line so that can claim to not be far right implicating that they must be centre right while claiming moronic things like the current Labour Party is the furthest left Labour Party in modern history when it’s centre left at best and not even the furthest left Labour Party of the last 5 years.


We’re back to the territory of just because they (the Tories) think you’re stupid doesn’t mean you have to indulge them.

What are you on about? The political spectrum is exactly that - a theoretical relative spectrum so obviously shifts.

Most would probably agree though that the Conservative Party that just got booted out was centre right - what do you disagree with about that?

The relativity is important thought, for example they are definitely still left of the US Democratic Party

 

[MalcSB]

they still appear to have come 2nd

As did the Tories.

 

[Evo1883]

The worrying thing for France is that around 30% plus of the electorate are voting far right parties and if I was a betting man , I reckon that figure could rise further over the next 4 years .

200 MPs had to step down in certain areas to ensure that this happened through tactical voting.. that's a worry

 

[MalcSB]

Almost like most French people aren't actually Le Pen supporters and will vote to keep her and her party out.

What, like most British people aren’t actually Labour supporters? Yet they are now in power,

 

[Sick Boy]

How far to the left are the parties in France?

 

[SBAndy]

The worrying thing for France is that around 30% plus of the electorate are voting far right parties and if I was a betting man , I reckon that figure could rise further over the next 4 years .

200 MPs had to step down in certain areas to ensure that this happened through tactical voting.. that's a worry

Although the increased turnout in the 2nd round suggests to me there’s a general apathy but a more fervent rejection of far right politics. Basically more have been energised after the result of the first round of voting.

 

[Evo1883]

Although the increased turnout in the 2nd round suggests to me there’s a general apathy but a more fervent rejection of far right politics. Basically more have been energised after the result of the first round of voting.

France I reckon has a much bigger far right issue than the UK .. can't see it getting better either

 

[David O'Day]

How far to the left are the parties in France?

it's the Popular Front alliance so it ranges from very left to centre left

 

[Evo1883]

Le pen results

2017

2nd round

8%

2022

17 %

2024

29/30 %


Projected to gain 44 seats in the French parliament

 

[shmmeee]

30% is fascisms ceiling. Most people are decent. PR would put them in power when people are forced to pick one of two sides they don’t pick fascism. People need to be clear eyed about it. Reform and the like aren’t going to romp to 40% of the vote.

 

[Northants Sky Blue]

Been a rough few days for Putin.

Now if only the Dems could pull a decent candidate out their arse thats a v.v.unlikely hat-trick

 

[stay_up_skyblues]

My 14 year old goes on a school trip to Paris Tuesday. Hopefully it’s all calmed down a bit by the time she gets there. All seems fairly celebratory on the news at the moment.

 

[David O'Day]

My 14 year old goes on a school trip to Paris Tuesday. Hopefully it’s all calmed down a bit by the time she gets there. All seems fairly celebratory on the news at the moment.

Paris will be fine, the residents of the city proper will be loving this

 

[MalcSB]

Le pen results

2017

2nd round

8%

2022

17 %

2024

29/30 %


Projected to gain 44 seats in the French parliament

I saw it was projected to be 125 to 150 on the BBC. There’s over 550 seats in total I think

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

You see this is what they do. They shift the line so that can claim to not be far right implicating that they must be centre right while claiming moronic things like the current Labour Party is the furthest left Labour Party in modern history when it’s centre left at best and not even the furthest left Labour Party of the last 5 years.


We’re back to the territory of just because they (the Tories) think you’re stupid doesn’t mean you have to indulge them.

So you think the Conservatives were far right?

Fucking hell.

 

[skybluetony176]

So you think the Conservatives were far right?

Fucking hell.

They’re a damn site nearer to the far right than they are the centre that’s for sure. They’ve spent the last 12 months especially trying to make immigration the biggest issue. Text book far right. But the truth is they’ve been flirting with it since May was Home Secretary.

 

[robbiekeane]

They’re a damn site nearer to the far right than they are the centre that’s for sure. They’ve spent the last 12 months especially trying to make immigration the biggest issue. Text book far right. But the truth is they’ve been flirting with it since May was Home Secretary.

Jesus Christ, if you think they are far right I think you need to open a history book, or look at US politics

 

[skybluetony176]

Jesus Christ, if you think they are far right I think you need to open a history book, or look at US politics

I think you need to open your eyes.

 

[Grendel]

That can't be right, I thought the right were now the most popular party and Le Pen was going to be president

It's almost as though this has happened before.

There was zero chance of them being the most popular party

 

[nunchuckas]

So you think the Conservatives were far right?

Fucking hell.

It all comes down to the Overton window and it varies by country and perpetually shifts over time.

In the UK, the window has been tracking further right over recent years, and is considerably further right than most of Europe. Even though in Europe the window is also shifting right.

For example, Corbyn's policies under the UK Overton window were considered far left and deemed loony and communist. Whereas in Europe, every single policy except one was already in place in at least one country, and his manifesto would have been considered fairly central, and even right leaning in Scandinavia. And these are all capitalist countries.

There was an academic study recently that showed at one point under the outgoing Tory government we had overtaken the US as the most right wing country in the world, in terms of economic and fiscal policy, this was based on the policies that were in place at that time.