Do you want to discuss boring politics? (67 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

Not sure about that but I do remember that they got their pledge to raise the tax threshold to £10k implemented making everyone noticeably better off in their pockets overnight, especially if you were on a lower income. Think I’m right in saying that it was the single biggest ever jump.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

I don’t think there was any route to anything other than a Tory lead govt. the question for me is how a minority govt would have faired compared to having the human shields up from 2010-15 while they did unpopular things.

It wouldn't have got the 5p carrier bag charge through

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Why is this kind of mental gymnastics being applied only to this election?

It's not just now.

2011 United Kingdom Alternative Vote referendum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[skybluetony176]

It wouldn't have got the 5p carrier bag charge through

For a socialist to be concentrating on that as the crux of your argument is a weird one. I would have thought that raising the tax threshold to £10k would have rang your bell. Wasn’t it the Lib Dem’s that got the triple lock through on pensions too? 2 very left wing policies that otherwise wouldn’t have happened. Didn’t they also have some success in getting the Tories to back peddle on public sector pay freezes? Seem to remember that the Tories wanted it across the board regardless of how much a public sector worker earned, IIRC it ended up being anyone earning over £22K a year and the freeze to last for a shorter period than the Tories wanted.

You also have to remember what the other option was. Labour with a multiparty coalition if they could have made it happen, which they couldn’t. So there wasn’t another option.

 

[PVA]

More from Tory in disguise Starmer's right wing government:

 

[shmmeee]

It wouldn't have got the 5p carrier bag charge through

Politics is about making serious choices. That is true. As my bank balance empties but the quality of bag in the giant pile in the utility room improves I can’t help but think “Thank you Nick Clegg”

 

[fernandopartridge]

For a socialist to be concentrating on that as the crux of your argument is a weird one. I would have thought that raising the tax threshold to £10k would have rang your bell. Wasn’t it the Lib Dem’s that got the triple lock through on pensions too? 2 very left wing policies that otherwise wouldn’t have happened. Didn’t they also have some success in getting the Tories to back peddle on public sector pay freezes? Seem to remember that the Tories wanted it across the board regardless of how much a public sector worker earned, IIRC it ended up being anyone earning over £22K a year and the freeze to last for a shorter period than the Tories wanted.

You also have to remember what the other option was. Labour with a multiparty coalition if they could have made it happen, which they couldn’t. So there wasn’t another option.

Raising the income tax threshold isn't a particularly left wing act? Especially in the context of huge spending cuts. The government does not set the rate of % increase for different levels, that's negotiated by different employers with their unions, it is usually a union proposal to spread that 1% so the lowest paid get a higher percentage of their pay (I should know I was a rep at the time). The government set the broad parameters which were something like 1% on the total wage bill.

Triple lock on pensions, it's a Tory policy to continue to appease their core voting base. Nothing more.

 

[shmmeee]

For a socialist to be concentrating on that as the crux of your argument is a weird one. I would have thought that raising the tax threshold to £10k would have rang your bell. Wasn’t it the Lib Dem’s that got the triple lock through on pensions too? 2 very left wing policies that otherwise wouldn’t have happened. Didn’t they also have some success in getting the Tories to back peddle on public sector pay freezes? Seem to remember that the Tories wanted it across the board regardless of how much a public sector worker earned, IIRC it ended up being anyone earning over £22K a year and the freeze to last for a shorter period than the Tories wanted.

You also have to remember what the other option was. Labour with a multiparty coalition if they could have made it happen, which they couldn’t. So there wasn’t another option.

I keep seeing this from Tories. Low earners are net beneficiaries of the tax system, cutting everyone’s taxes doesn’t help them, it just reduces the services they rely on.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Politics is about making serious choices. That is true. As my bank balance empties but the quality of bag in the giant pile in the utility room improves I can’t help but think “Thank you Nick Clegg”

Presumably a bag for life takes even longer to degrade than what it replaced. I've always found it to be a dreadful policy really, the policy in itself is a similar trade off (produce plastic bags which take even longer to degrade than what they replace vs a small charge for buying them).

 

[shmmeee]

Presumably a bag for life takes even longer to degrade than what it replaced. I've always found it to be a dreadful policy really, the policy in itself is a similar trade off (produce plastic bags which take even longer to degrade than what they replace vs a small charge for buying them).

I think it has helped to be fair, you do see far fewer carrier bags floating about. But it’s real Lib Dem thinking. Just fannying about a bit around the edges. Im much more annoyed by the plastic straw ban which, like Just Stop Oil, I think is a psy op from big oil.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I think it has helped to be fair. But it’s real Lib Dem thinking. Just fannying about a bit around the edges. Im much more annoyed by the plastic straw ban which, like Just Stop Oil, I think is a psy op from big oil.

Yeah, it has ruined a McDonalds milk shake

 

[skybluetony176]

Raising the income tax threshold isn't a particularly left wing act? Especially in the context of huge spending cuts. The government does not set the rate of % increase for different levels, that's negotiated by different employers with their unions, it is usually a union proposal to spread that 1% so the lowest paid get a higher percentage of their pay (I should know I was a rep at the time). The government set the broad parameters which were something like 1% on the total wage bill.

Triple lock on pensions, it's a Tory policy to continue to appease their core voting base. Nothing more.

Raising the threshold is an excellent and easy way of closing the inequality gap. I’d say that’s very left wing. The spending cuts were always coming under a Tory government, the raising of the tax threshold wasn’t. Lib Dem’s made that happen.

Happy to be corrected but my memory was the triple lock was Lib Dem’s idea and there’s was the only manifesto in 2010 that had it in. I think it’s very cynical to say it’s a Tory policy, May even wanted to drop it and then had to back pedal. Truth is that having witnessed May’s mistake it’s now everyone’s policy. It’s ensured welfare maintenance for a large proportion of the population. If that’s not socialism then I don’t know what is.

 

[shmmeee]

Raising the threshold is an excellent and easy way of closing the inequality gap. I’d say that’s very left wing. The spending cuts were always coming under a Tory government, the raising of the tax threshold wasn’t. Lib Dem’s made that happen.

Happy to be corrected but my memory was the triple lock was Lib Dem’s idea and there’s was the only manifesto in 2010 that had it in. I think it’s very cynical to say it’s a Tory policy, May even wanted to drop it and then had to back pedal. Truth is that having witnessed May’s mistake it’s now everyone’s policy. It’s ensured welfare maintenance for a large proportion of the population. If that’s not socialism then I don’t know what is.

It gives the same money to everyone on under £100k, how does it reduce inequality?

There are far more progressive ways of getting money into poor peoples pockets than giving people like me more money.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Raising the threshold is an excellent and easy way of closing the inequality gap. I’d say that’s very left wing. The spending cuts were always coming under a Tory government, the raising of the tax threshold wasn’t. Lib Dem’s made that happen.

Happy to be corrected but my memory was the triple lock was Lib Dem’s idea and there’s was the only manifesto in 2010 that had it in. I think it’s very cynical to say it’s a Tory policy, May even wanted to drop it and then had to back pedal. Truth is that having witnessed May’s mistake it’s now everyone’s policy. It’s ensured welfare maintenance for a large proportion of the population. If that’s not socialism then I don’t know what is.

It took four years to get the threshold to £10k, but even with that extra money in your pocket the cost of goods and services went upwards because the Tories increased VAT which costs those with less disposable income to a greater extent than anybody else.

 

[MalcSB]

We have no idea. That’s not how our voting system works. Even if we take this argument the “anti Labour” vote is smaller than the anti anyone else vote.

I was responding to Bright Sky Blues’ observation that the was a bigger anti Tory vote than pro Tory vote in 2010, so presumably you argument stands for then as well.

 

[MalcSB]

Not by the number of seats won. In 2010 the Lib-Lab seat total was higher than the Tory one.

You said votes, not seats.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I was responding to Bright Sky Blues’ observation that the was a bigger anti Tory vote than pro Tory vote in 2010, so presumably you argument stands for then as well.

Labour and the Lib Dems in 2010 had much more in common ideologically than the latter did with the Tories.

 

[MalcSB]

Not compared to the anti reform vote. 95% of the country didn’t vote for them.

Not entirely correct 91.4 % didn’t vote for reform, but not what the debate was about.

 

[shmmeee]

I was responding to Bright Sky Blues’ observation that the was a bigger anti Tory vote than pro Tory vote in 2010, so presumably you argument stands for then as well.

Yeah as I said I can’t see past a Tory lead govt in 2010. My issue was the Lib Dem’s propping it up instead of letting them run as a minority govt.

 

[MalcSB]

Labour and the Lib Dems in 2010 had much more in common ideologically than the latter did with the Tories.

But people who voted for the Lib Dem’s didn’t vote for Labour, so they voted for a party in competition with Labour and hence anti- Labour.

 

[MalcSB]

More from Tory in disguise Starmer's right wing government:

Fucking ridiculous, as one of the responses to the tweet suggests we will be buying from Putin instead.

Still, what can you expect from someone who cant manage a bacon batch.

 

[PVA]

Fucking ridiculous, as one of the responses to the tweet suggests we will be buying from Putin instead.

That's not how oil extraction/sales works.

 

[MalcSB]

That's not how oil extraction/sales works.

I wish I was an expert on everything.

Ed Miliband orders immediate ban on new North Sea oil and gas drilling

The Energy Secretary, who has been a committed opponent of oil and gas, told regulators not to approve a new round of drilling licenses that were slated for confirmation in the coming weeks.

www.aberdeenlive.news

 

[Grendel]

That's not how oil extraction/sales works.

He’s already likely to backtrack due to threats of legal action

 

[fernandopartridge]

Fucking ridiculous, as one of the responses to the tweet suggests we will be buying from Putin instead.

Still, what can you expect from someone who cant manage a bacon batch.

Most of it is exported anyway, we can't refine it in this country. Drilling it is

 

[PVA]

I wish I was an expert on everything.

Ed Miliband orders immediate ban on new North Sea oil and gas drilling

The Energy Secretary, who has been a committed opponent of oil and gas, told regulators not to approve a new round of drilling licenses that were slated for confirmation in the coming weeks.

www.aberdeenlive.news

What does any of that have to do with Putin?

 

[shmmeee]

I wish I was an expert on everything.

Ed Miliband orders immediate ban on new North Sea oil and gas drilling

The Energy Secretary, who has been a committed opponent of oil and gas, told regulators not to approve a new round of drilling licenses that were slated for confirmation in the coming weeks.

www.aberdeenlive.news

Well if the people of Aberdeen are in favour of continued oil drilling I see no reason not to trust their impartial judgement.

 

[MalcSB]

What does any of that have to do with Putin?

Just more detail behind the story. I have seen elsewhere that the government are denying this.

UK government denies it has banned new North Sea drilling

Government insists oil and gas firms that have already applied for licences to explore and drill in the North Sea will not be blocked.

www.energyvoice.com

Ed Miliband just made blunder that'll cost UK billions and spark legal tsunami

Just four days into the job and it's already clear that new energy secretary Ed Miliband will cost the nation a fortune and leave us at the mercy of petrostates and vile dictators.

www.express.co.uk

He doesn't just look like a prat does he, he acts like one as well,

 

[MalcSB]

Well if the people of Aberdeen are in favour of continued oil drilling I see no reason not to trust their impartial judgement.

Im not sure how knee jerk actions like this will encourage private investment in Labours energy company.

 

[shmmeee]

Im not sure how knee jerk actions like this will encourage private investment in Labours energy company.

Its literally in the manifesto.

 

[MalcSB]

Its literally in the manifesto.

View attachment 36789

It also says this.

We will ensure a phased and responsible transition in the North Sea that recognises the proud history of our offshore industry and the brilliance of its workforce, particularly in Scotland and the North East of England, and the ongoing role of oil and gas in our energy mix.

Just stopping stuff already well down the pipeline (no pun intended) won’t be well received by the energy industry.

 

[shmmeee]

It also says this.

We will ensure a phased and responsible transition in the North Sea that recognises the proud history of our offshore industry and the brilliance of its workforce, particularly in Scotland and the North East of England, and the ongoing role of oil and gas in our energy mix.

Just stopping stuff already well down the pipeline (no pun intended) won’t be well received by the energy industry.

But these licences hadn’t been granted, and it says right there that Labour won’t grant any licences. So they can hardly claim surprise. The transition stuff is about maintaining jobs while we move away from oil, nothing about “oh go on we didn’t really mean we won’t grant new licences”

 

[Sick Boy]

It been a while since this argument so excuse the rust but a minority Tory govt wouldn’t have been emboldened in 2015 to get Brexit through and might have avoided both that and Corbyn. The Lib Dem activist base at the time was mostly idealistic people on the left of Labour and enabling a Tory govt in any way was a betrayal of their vote.

Pretty sure the Brexit referendum was a Tory manifesto pledge. Imagine then voting for them and still complaining about Brexit today.

 

[wingy]

Wasn't there some funding to the DUP (NI) ?

 

[PVA]

Just more detail behind the story. I have seen elsewhere that the government are denying this.

UK government denies it has banned new North Sea drilling

Government insists oil and gas firms that have already applied for licences to explore and drill in the North Sea will not be blocked.

www.energyvoice.com

Ed Miliband just made blunder that'll cost UK billions and spark legal tsunami

Just four days into the job and it's already clear that new energy secretary Ed Miliband will cost the nation a fortune and leave us at the mercy of petrostates and vile dictators.

www.express.co.uk

He doesn't just look like a prat does he, he acts like one as well,

That's great, but doesn't mean we are going to buy more oil from Russia like you said.