Some answers to some of the many questions (5 Viewers)

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Bill Glazier

Bill Glazier

Active Member
cloughie said:
Sisu will not pull the plug on CCFC.... There is no way they can walk away from this situation. They will hang on until they can get something out of the mess to at least give there investors something back, otherwise Sisu as a hedge fund will lose all credability and be finished.
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But taking over failing companies and breaking them up to realise the assets is what hedge funds do. Amongst the sort of people they mix with, failing to liquify CCFC already is no doubt seen as a sign of weakness. Blaming ACL, who have done no wrong, is merely a smokescreen for the action they appear to be taking. Why do you think they bought back the training ground and then transferred the ownership to Arvo in the Cayman Islands? They're asset-stripping - as I say, it's what they do.
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I know this is a complete mess but it does amaze me that so many people almost seem to want the club to get liquidated so they can say "nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, told you SISU would wreck the club". The mistakes go back years, way before SISU were stupid enough to buy us.

And the ironic thing is because of the totally RUBBISH Arrangements between the Club and Higgs, the Council and ACL this will always be the case, no matter who takes over.

Grendel said:
No good idea. Lets then all hold a party when the club disappears for ever. Can't wait. Least we won't have to argue about JPT anymore.
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cloughie

cloughie

Well-Known Member
Bill Glazier said:
But taking over failing companies and breaking them up to realise the assets is what hedge funds do. Amongst the sort of people they mix with, failing to liquify CCFC already is no doubt seen as a sign of weakness. Blaming ACL, who have done no wrong, is merely a smokescreen for the action they appear to be taking. Why do you think they bought back the training ground and then transferred the ownership to Arvo in the Cayman Islands? They're asset-stripping - as I say, it's what they do.
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True and i agree but the value of ryton is only a small % of what they have put in I would guess
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
ashbyjan

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
This whole sorry mess needs sorting and its not a matter of winners and losers but compromise and getting the best deal for BOTH parties. At the end of the day they both need each other, whatever each says, and the sooner they stop poncing about and get it sorted the sooner we can all get back to slagging off McSheff Baker, Murphy etc etc

What is a worry is that the two sides don't seem that far apart £200k on one side and £400k on the other yet the intransigence appears to be coming from the club. ACL have come down from £1.2m to 400k yet Fisher hasn't budged. In reality if he trimmed 10% of the wage bill we would be there. He goes on about average League 1 rents but doesn't seem to accept that we have a better than League 1 ground, better than League 1 crowds and a much higher than League 1 playing bill which should be trimmed anyway not withstanding the rent fiasco.
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I'm no business man Jan, but I reckon £300K could do it.

ashbyjan said:
What is a worry is that the two sides don't seem that far apart £200k on one side and £400k on the other yet the intransigence appears to be coming from the club.
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valiant15

New Member
Apparently im a racist cos i called leicester fans taxi drivers and said they wore bedsheets all day. Racist no,true yes.
 
V

valiant15

New Member
By the way,its obviously a school cos you said it was in your post. Am I supposed to know the name of every school in coventry?
 
covcity4life

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
well done valiant, you have shown yourself up in front of everyone now

you do make my day,its always so easy to show you up,you do it for me:wave:

doubt mods will care though.
 
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Guzzrate

New Member
I've just been doing some sums as to the Stadium and costs.

If I understand this clearly, it's a 99 year lease and the stadium cost 113M to build..... Correct?

The "Rent" is set at 1.28M a year. If you actually calculate that all together, you get 126.72M quid. if you take off the 10K for the 23 league games per season you get 102M quid and then add on the 8.9M quid already paid. Now that is incredibly close to the cost of the stadium. What if this "Rent" is actually more of a HP agreement, than a strictly "Renting" agreement, which would mean that you have actually paid 8.9M+10K per league game off of purchasing the grounds.

I'm not saying this is the case here but as we don't know the full details of the deal, maybe this is a possibility given the strange and aggressive stance that ACL have taken.

I'm just trying to look at this from another angle, I may be totally wrong and looking for a reason behind how this has happened. Still interesting stuff....
 
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G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
ashbyjan said:
This whole sorry mess needs sorting and its not a matter of winners and losers but compromise and getting the best deal for BOTH parties. At the end of the day they both need each other, whatever each says, and the sooner they stop poncing about and get it sorted the sooner we can all get back to slagging off McSheff Baker, Murphy etc etc
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I can't see how Higgs or ACL escapes this without losing. With a rent reduction even to £400k p y the profit of ACL is turned to a loss and especially Higgs investment seem tied up for many many years to come.

ashbyjan said:
What is a worry is that the two sides don't seem that far apart £200k on one side and £400k on the other yet the intransigence appears to be coming from the club. ACL have come down from £1.2m to 400k yet Fisher hasn't budged. In reality if he trimmed 10% of the wage bill we would be there. He goes on about average League 1 rents but doesn't seem to accept that we have a better than League 1 ground, better than League 1 crowds and a much higher than League 1 playing bill which should be trimmed anyway not withstanding the rent fiasco.
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The club may have turned down the offer if ACL insist the new rent is only valid from the day of agreement and not calculated back to the day the club stopped paying. It may not be a question about a few throusand pounds per months, but £1m+ here and now (or even future installments).
 
James Smith

James Smith

Well-Known Member
Godiva said:
So another rent offer is turned down - but why?
All we know is ACL have said they have made an offer that they wouldn't make to any other tennant.
That's fine then, but from what date? If the new rent was supposed to kick in from jan 2013, then I can see why it's turned down.
The club probably doesn't have the £1m+ that is owed, and their stance will be: We have paid matchday cost in all these months, and we are not prepared to pay more than the difference between the matchday payment and the new rent to settle the debt.

On the other hand, ACL seem in some kind of trouble themself. So I wonder if they can get permission from the banks who are 'restructuring' ACL's own debts to write off the £1m+.

PKWH is the only involved who gets on this forum and gives his side of the story. And he comes across as very articulate and very likeable so naturally he gets all the sympathy. He is talking the Higgs side of things mostly, and Higgs are actually ready to leave ACL if they can get their shares sold. But here may be another twist as Higgs seem to value their shares much higher than any investor/potential buyer would. If Higgs ask for £6-10m most investors would expect the ACL to produce a yearly profit at around £2-3m representing a yearly profit (or asset gain) of around £1m-1.5m for the 50% shareholding. That is very far from the profits produced in the past.
A new investor may accept a lessor profit if ACL has a considerable book value but the emergence of Deloitte to help restructuring doesn't really support that possibility.
ACL's businessplan is also somewhat tainted with the clubs refusal to pay the usual rent. If ACL and the club agree a new and much lower rent, then the profit goes out of the window. If ACL evicts the club and even succeed to get a replacement tennant, then the profit will also go out the window.
So however this whole situation evolves, ACL stand to lose a lot of profitabillity and the Higgs share value will suffer greatly. It will be a long time before any investor will be willing to buy Higgs shares for £10m or even £6m.

As it stands right now, everybody is going to lose. Nobody is gaining anything.
ACL stands to lose it's original purpose: Making sure the city's proud football club has a place to play.
Higgs stand to lose a good percentage of the book value of their shares and the their investment is locked up for years to come.
Sisu stand to lose all the money their clients have invested.
The city stand to lose it's football club.

 Of course there is a morale issue in here, but in reality there's no good guys and no bad guys in business. There are only winners and losers.
If all parties at some point accept that whereever they turn they face defeat unless a deal is made, then there's a chance ccfc will live to play another game.
But it is my oppinion that to get to that point ACL will probably have to change owners for a price investors is ready to pay: 2-4 times the expected yearly profit (excluding the rent from the club) plus net asset value.
Only remaining problem will be to make sure ACL becomes part of ccfc and stays there whatever sisu or any future owner do.
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I thought and I may well be wrong on this that the Charity legally had to sell the shares for the same or more than they paid for them. Therefore if that is the case there isn't any option to offer their shares at a reduced rate to someone (even if it was SISU, or Gary Hoff, the Hoff, KITT etc.) Would the same or similar be true of the council, who are looking after the ratepayers money of our fair city of Coventry. Anyone with charity law please correct me as I'm doubtless wrong on many counts.
 
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valiant15

New Member
It's true and the whole of the country knows it. We cant say it because if we do we get called racist,its a fucking joke. I have no problem with anybody,whatever colour,race they are,but as soon as we(white) say something the ethnics find offensive they're screaming like babies. I get called names at work such as gora,snowflake,honkey etc,do i run off and cry to the gaffer?,no,i find it funny,i shrug it off. If i was to call an asian a Paki,what would happen?,id be out the door. I'm not a racist,i said Leicester fans are taxi drivers&wear bedsheets,big deal,where your sense of humour for fucks sake. You said what i said tbe other day was racist when i said most shit areas were inhabited by immagrents,that isnt racist its true. I'm sick and tired of being treated like a second class citizen in my own country when there's immagrents sponging off the system,getting free health care,free houses,money,having about 10 kids,blowing innocent people up and slagging this country off but are willing to take the houndouts,fucking disgusting. It's isnt little old white ladies preaching hate is it? If that make me a racist then fine.
 
Wrenstreetcarpark

Wrenstreetcarpark

New Member
Don't worry Valiant you are not rascist, just as John Clarke is anorexic. Don't let people call you nasty names just because your knuckles drag on the ground when you walk. Its not fair.
 
covcity4life

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
Lol wren

The funniest part is your belief that white people in this country are perfect.

No tax spongers for sure!
 
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