Chris1987
Well-Known Member
No you weren't . Your whole argument was based around the club going for promotion by spending money regardless of whether we have it available or not. Fundamental difference.
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What do we still need? (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ccfcisparks
- Start date
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
I would have thought that would be the case but we went in for Stamenic.
I would guess it would be the CM and ST then one in one out.
BlueSkiesForever
Well-Known Member
I could be wrong but I think I said “the more signings the better, up to a point”, we obviously don’t need a 73 man squad but a few more signings would be ideal.
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
I think we'll certainly see a CM and a CF. Outside of that its just a feeling we'll sign 1 more, dunno where though.
Perennial Lurker
Well-Known Member
I think we'll sign a utility type player who can play a few positions to give us depth without costing a lot .
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
h
hopefully not another lati.
Perennial Lurker
Well-Known Member
Lati wasn't that bad until he got injured .
I think the fact we were after Camara suggests someone along those sort of lines may come in
Your forgetting the singings we've all ready made.. what you're actually saying is you would like us to spend between 14 and 20 million on players this year (and that's not including the EMC money)... Have you heard of FFP?? How much do you think that would leave us able to spend in the next 2 seasons if we don't go up.. it really is insanity what you are suggesting..
Edit. I see you have said you don't know much about FFP, well if I remember rightly your allowed to lose around 30 over a 3 year period in The championship. That is why your way is unsustainable..
ClarkeZ
Well-Known Member
I get this point and totally understand the desire to improve the squad further, but we've already spent circa £12m on players who arrived this summer (EMC included). Another £6-11m takes us to or past £20m.
It would be lovely to improve the squad further that way, but how long do you think we can keep spending that?
We dont have the income and money to spend of the 'bigger clubs' in the division (of which there are probably 6-8) and we've long eclipsed the income of Vik and Gus. If we spent £20m every summer we risk financial instability and we've spent too long in that misery recently so this has to be approached with a long term view.
We are starting year 2 of a 4-5 year plan. Lots of teams throw the kitchen sink at it and fail. If we can develop the right players at the right time, create sell on value, we can be in the promotion mix for multiple seasons to come. It might seem boring and lacking immediate ambition a bit, but I'd personally rather a financially stable club than a 1-2 year all out splurge which might not work.
blunted
Well-Known Member
I would welcome a loan to buy possibly a guaranteed buy if we get promoted.
Think we have been targeting an experienced (but not too old) centre back or holding midfielder, right back cover and an up-and-coming striker.
Think we need Vik to be sold and as a bonus Gus to cover all bases.
To quote Jagger, "You can't always get what you want".
Think we have been targeting an experienced (but not too old) centre back or holding midfielder, right back cover and an up-and-coming striker.
Think we need Vik to be sold and as a bonus Gus to cover all bases.
To quote Jagger, "You can't always get what you want".
BlueSkiesForever
Well-Known Member
I know that £14-20 mil seems a lot but for a team that’s challenging for a top 4 spot in the championship I don’t think it’s extravagant at all.
The alternative is we either sign no one at all, sign only free agents or sign only loans. There aren’t any other options, and seeing as everyone suggests we need a quality CM and decent back-up ST then I believe we should buy players (for CM at least) as CM is a crucial position that we should be aiming to train a player up for, ready to step into Sheaf’s shoes if he goes this season or next. Buying players isn’t just a one window thing, it’s a long term investment that hopefully yields results and/or profit further down the line, as we can see with MVE, there’s £10-20 mil in waiting in him, £10-20 mil we wouldn’t have if we didn’t invest that initial £3-5 mil (or whatever it was).
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
The only other option to not spending 14-20mil is either frees or loans?
Or stick where we are well stocked!!
BlueSkiesForever
Well-Known Member
Yes? The guy I’m quoting is using the what-would-be total if we included the imagined £6-11 mil plus what we’ve spent so far this window. We either spend an extra £6-£11 mil on the 3 combined positions (CM, ST, RB) or we only use loans/free agents. There’s no in-between, we’re not going to get a CM of the right quality for us for 500K or something ridiculous.
ClarkeZ
Well-Known Member
The financial model only works if we realise the value in a player, i.e. sell them. Then we have to replace them.
Long term investment is great, but it has to be fronted by a player sale, someone with cash or with debt. And DK seems to be trying to avoid the latter, which I personally think is a very good thing considering our recent history.
The point I'm trying to get across is that we don't have deep enough pockets to sustain a nett spend of £20m every summer. Which is what you are currently hoping we do this window. So yes, if we sell Wilson or Collins for £10mil then we should definitely spend that on a CM, ST, probably a RB. But we cant magic money from thin air.
I love the ambition to get all the players in right now, but what a few of us are suggesting is that we simply might not have the cash to do it. And long term, we cant spend that much money every year, its just not financially viable.
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
Need a dominant centre back we are too vulnerable at set pieces and definitely another threatening striker
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
spoilsport
Legia Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Another problem with spending another £6-11m is that any players commanding such sums will also expect a significant salary. This never seems to be factored into the sums of posters (well one in particular) when speculating on the cost to the club of signing such players to sit on the bench, never mind any future repercussions from FFP.
We would also be stupid to cut out the opportunities for home grown players to ever make it into our team, which is effectively being proposed. To my eyes Burroughs definitely has something about him and the potential to make it, so I think it sends out a very poor message for us to sideline him without giving him the opportunity to make his mark, which ought to come through injury, suspension or tiredness of a first teamer at somepoint in the season.
We would also be stupid to cut out the opportunities for home grown players to ever make it into our team, which is effectively being proposed. To my eyes Burroughs definitely has something about him and the potential to make it, so I think it sends out a very poor message for us to sideline him without giving him the opportunity to make his mark, which ought to come through injury, suspension or tiredness of a first teamer at somepoint in the season.
BlueSkiesForever
Well-Known Member
I know what you mean but I’m not suggesting we spend big every summer. I said it somewhere in a previous post but I didn’t think 2-3 years ago we were in a position to spend big, as we were nowhere near the level required to get promotion, now that we are inches away in terms of quality (and also the shape of the league and other teams around us) I think now is the time to push for it.
We have differing opinions and that’s fine, that’s what this forum is obviously for, but my overall viewpoint remains that we may not have such a golden opportunity as this, particularly with the settled, energetic squad that we have now. In a few years time our best players may have moved on, maybe even Robins, who knows? Yes we can buy more players but then it may be another season of transition. For once I genuinely believe we will be promoted if we just have that extra bit of quality on/off the bench.
BlueSkiesForever
Well-Known Member
Alright maybe Burroughs could do a job, but it’s a could. I get your point about youth players but realistically we only ever bring them on when we’re comfortable in a game, typically not when we’re holding onto a narrow lead or drawing a game.
I also find it odd that as soon as I put a guesstimated figure of how much a CM and ST would be (and it’s just a suggestion at the end of the day) everyone seems to have dropped the idea of buying a CM and ST like a sack of hot shit
Like do we want to be buying players or not? Or is it the case that everyone who previously suggested we need a CM and ST only wanted loanees? Genuinely interested as I now seem to be the only one defending the idea of buying any players at all 
He has you Muppet!!Alright maybe Burroughs could do a job, but it’s a could. I get your point about youth players but realistically we only ever bring them on when we’re comfortable in a game, typically not when we’re holding onto a narrow lead or drawing a game.
I also find it odd that as soon as I put a guesstimated figure of how much a CM and ST would be (and it’s just a suggestion at the end of the day) everyone seems to have dropped the idea of buying a CM and ST like a sack of hot shit
BlueSkiesForever
Well-Known Member
You mean Burroughs? As in he could do a job? He played a pre-season friendly and has played for a league one side for a bit, can he hack it at championship level? Not saying he can’t, hence why I said “could”
Chris1987
Well-Known Member
As has been explained previously the process is self financing. Buy lowish sell high , don't compromise next season's spend.Alright maybe Burroughs could do a job, but it’s a could. I get your point about youth players but realistically we only ever bring them on when we’re comfortable in a game, typically not when we’re holding onto a narrow lead or drawing a game.
I also find it odd that as soon as I put a guesstimated figure of how much a CM and ST would be (and it’s just a suggestion at the end of the day) everyone seems to have dropped the idea of buying a CM and ST like a sack of hot shit
So this season stick to the transfer budget get promotion , great. Don't get promotion sell one of our best players at the end of the season for £20M + and replace with an minimum of 3 more players to develop. Self sustaining
Your approach . Speculate now , get promoted great
Your last sentence is comprehensively wrong. Nobody is saying don't buy any players ( you've interpreted it this way). What people are saying generally is only buy if we have the funds to do so.Very different thingsAlright maybe Burroughs could do a job, but it’s a could. I get your point about youth players but realistically we only ever bring them on when we’re comfortable in a game, typically not when we’re holding onto a narrow lead or drawing a game.
I also find it odd that as soon as I put a guesstimated figure of how much a CM and ST would be (and it’s just a suggestion at the end of the day) everyone seems to have dropped the idea of buying a CM and ST like a sack of hot shit
Legia Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Alright maybe Burroughs could do a job, but it’s a could. I get your point about youth players but realistically we only ever bring them on when we’re comfortable in a game, typically not when we’re holding onto a narrow lead or drawing a game.
I also find it odd that as soon as I put a guesstimated figure of how much a CM and ST would be (and it’s just a suggestion at the end of the day) everyone seems to have dropped the idea of buying a CM and ST like a sack of hot shit
To my mind the only position we definitely need another player to fill out the squad is up front, but whoever that is will likely start as back up to the existing players we have in Wright and Simms so we have to be realistic in who might want to sign for us in those circumstances. I have long thought that Tyrese Campbell as a free transfer fits perfectly but we don't seem to have shown any interest in him.
After that we could probably do with another CB ideally, but unless we revert to playing 3 central defenders, MR might think we have enough going into the season. As for CM, I only see a new CM being brought in if we can offload Palmer and/ or Allen.
There might be a fair chance that we do not sign anyone else before the actual season starts, after which I can see MR assessing our strengths and weaknesses with a view to making deadline week signings, be they loans, free transfers, or players bought.
BlueSkiesForever
Well-Known Member
I know what you’re saying but I think we’re just going round and round here with the same points.
I have the view that this season is golden in terms of where we are as a club and where the league is in terms of season to season difficulty. I believe that a small risk now could be (not saying it’s definitive) the difference between us getting promoted or not, I’m of the view we should take that small risk and you’re not, and that’s fine. I’ve got nothing personal against you or Herts or Ian Sparks, I think you all make great points, I just differ with this particular viewpoint that’s all.
At the end of the day none of what we say matters on here, I’ve spent ages today arguing to and fro with various people, so hopefully we can just leave it with us agreeing to disagree? Please?
If you look at our guaranteed starters that shows what we still need in a couple of ways.
Guaranteed starters for first match
Dovin
MVE Thomas Binks
Sheaf Rudoni
Simms
Back line remembering Kitching suspended picks itself except for LB where we have the who is the best debate constantly, backs up the need for a better LB.
Midfield Sheaf and Rudoni the best players and then one out of Eccles, Torp and Allen, each have different strengths but does show weakness of no standout option
Upfront almost opposite issues of too much choice for left and right wing, but then only one choice for the central forward role.
So for me gaps are LB, CM and FW.
Guaranteed starters for first match
Dovin
MVE Thomas Binks
Sheaf Rudoni
Simms
Back line remembering Kitching suspended picks itself except for LB where we have the who is the best debate constantly, backs up the need for a better LB.
Midfield Sheaf and Rudoni the best players and then one out of Eccles, Torp and Allen, each have different strengths but does show weakness of no standout option
Upfront almost opposite issues of too much choice for left and right wing, but then only one choice for the central forward role.
So for me gaps are LB, CM and FW.
BlueSkiesForever
Well-Known Member
Very fair points, it’s a different take to mine but I don’t think it’s a wrong one. There’s multiple ways we can strengthen the squad and I’m down for some free agents or loanees if they’re quality (please don’t ask me to define “quality”
).He played a number of games there season before last, very adequately IMO!You mean Burroughs? As in he could do a job? He played a pre-season friendly and has played for a league one side for a bit, can he hack it at championship level? Not saying he can’t, hence why I said “could”
BlueSkiesForever
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, that’s your opinion and I’m not saying you’re wrong, simply saying that I’m yet to be convinced he’s good enough at this level, time will tell I suppose
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
I've always thought he looks a good player and I think he us an able deputy for van Ewijk. We really don’t need another right back as we have Burroughs, Latibeaudiere and Eccles as cover. Dasilva can also play there. We only play one right back and for most of the time it will be van Ewijk I hope. I think it is probably the strongest position in the squad.
ClarkeZ
Well-Known Member
Personally, I'd say Eccles and Sakamoto are pretty nailed on starters. Plus one of EMC/Haji. (Eccles is controversial apparently)
The only genuine question mark for me is LB, assuming we play the same formation as most of last season.
Not to say some reinforcement wouldn't be nice, if it's in the budget.
Old Warwickshire lad
Well-Known Member
We haven’t got £11 mil to splash.We haven’t got £6 mil. We are trying to build a sustainable business.
You say Doug King is a multi millionaire businessman, and should have money to put in because he owns the club. How do you know what he has got?
The club is being run with a view to still being in business in 5 years.
As fans we have got to learn to be patient, its working we are improving each year.
